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I was just wondering…. Do the Federation Member Worlds have their own Defense Fleets?
I mean most of them are likely to have a Fleet of some kind, before joining the Federation. Do they just hand those Ships over to Starfleet, or would they keep them as a Kind of System Milita/ Regional Defense Force?
Good question,
As far as cannon sources go, it was mentioned in DS9 that the Bajoran Militia would be absorbed into Starfleet, but no mention of ships or their duties.
There have been a few instances i believe of local law enforcement personnel on member worlds doing their duty in their own systems, but i can't recall any cannon mention of planetary militia.
There are a few non cannon mentions of local militia, but not many i can recall.
Personally i use local militia in my campaign. The federation charter does state i believe that it is the right of each species to preserve it's identity, and i can't imagine every member world, especially fringe world, giving up locally controlled defence forces.
In my game their organised along the lines of the TA (Reserves) with the senior officers and senior NCO's being ex starfleet, or long term reservists. - (The ones with the most experience.)
Just my thoughts.
Sundowner :cool:
On the ICON sourcebooks, there's several mentions of Andorian/Vulcan Defense Forces (like the Way of Kolinhar).
Same on CODA, inside the Starfleet Operations Manual, the 5th fleet is assumed to work "closely" with the Andorian Defense Force. If the ADF was a branch of Starfleet, I suppose the 5th fleet would be part of it, not just work with it.
Personally I was never comfortable with the idea that the Bajoran militia would just be absorbed into Starfleet. There's the potential for a wide gulf between local and Federation training standards, organization and values. Perhaps an incoming world's forces would get preferential treatment in terms of being provided special training which is more than an untrained civilian joining the fleet has but less than going through the Academy.
The nature of the Federation means that member worlds would likelly be able to count on "Big guns" from Starfleet but will have retained most of their former 'forces' too - because each member world is expected to self govern. Many worlds do not see Starfleet Starships for years at a time, so it would be rediculous for them NOT to have their own internal ships and or militia.
If we are to believe the episode where Wesly sits for his 'starfleet exam' - one of only 4 candidates for a WHOLE sector - then Starfleet officers would be REALLY rare! - converselly the bulk of Starfleet will likelly be regular non comms or civilians.
Since Starfleet don't run worlds like a police state I can't see them being in charge of ALL of a planet's security! yes Earth is a paradise - but not all of the member worlds are so nice !
By the book Starfleet is also a defense and exploration organisation and by intent that doesn't imply militia.
Technically speaking there isn't any canon evidence I am aware of either way but the answer, for the sake of realism is yes :D
For an example, if the Klingons ever joined the federation I can forsee them keeping all of their militia intact but adding resources and applicants to Starfleet, and toning down their personal defense force. i can't see them giving up all responsibility to an external body - and I can forsee that happening with allot of worlds !
Does anybody know which episode that was ?Quote:
Originally posted by Sundowner
Good question,
As far as cannon sources go, it was mentioned in DS9 that the Bajoran Militia would be absorbed into Starfleet. . . .
Tobain, how can you see the Klingons joining the Federation? Besides if they did they would lose all the possable resources they had from their client states.
As far Federation member worlds having their own defense fleet's or ground forces, I'd say with out a doubt yes. Think of them as some form of reserve or national guard to aid Starfleet in desperate times of war, criminal activity, or just a helping hand in say a charting or rescue mission.
Now I sure there are Fed worlds that do not have a defense force, Earth comes to mind. I have never heard of any forces other than Starfleet defending the Sol System. There has been canon mention of a Vulcan scientific fleet in DS9, so why not an Andorian Defense Fleet or a Tellerite fleet, etc.
Phoenix you misunderstood - I was just making an example. Andorians are equally adversarial as the Klingons but they ARE in Starfleet, therefore the original Starfleet charter would likewise have taken into consideration that members have certain sovereign rights - and most likelly that would including defending themselves.
This is extremelly tenuous - but I recall the episode where Loixana and Deanna were kidnapped from betazoid - they had their own people searching for them. I am not sure if it was stated if they were 'defense forces' - but that was implied... therefore if they have them... and so on.
Earth is always going to be a specific case because it is the centre of the Federation and the planet that the Federation council AND Starfleet is based on, so obviously Starfleet will guard them.. That and Starfleet is a direct outgrowth of the Terran organisation, so even if there was strictly speaking a 'seperate' police force on earth.. they would be virtually identical to Starfleet!
Not entirely sure, but it was (i think) the ep where sisko was experiencing his Pagh'tem'far (the visions), the B'hala ep.Quote:
Originally posted by Ezri's Toy
Does anybody know which episode that was ?
Can't remember the name right now though.
Sundowner :cool:
I can't think of any canon mentions of such forces, but I cannot see why not. The federation seems to be a kind of interstellar UN, albeit with more powers and so on, with it's own peace-keeping force (IE Starfleet). I think that individual members would have their own system fleets to police their sovereign space, but that Starfleet would have jurisdiction over them in a conflict situation.
('s how we play it, anyway)
:)
Cheers
Tas
Sorry Tobain, I wasn't trying to discredit you there, just wanted to harass Klingon fans, my reference was to the way the Klingon government gains it's resources. Very similar to the way the enemies of the Federation do, by the conquest of other lesser species. There has been canon mention of worlds ruled by the Empire (such as Krios...or Valt, one is allied with the Federation the other is under the Klingons, not important really just an example) and several indications that Q'ono's does not have resources of it's own, in part to a H'urk strip mining operation maybe or the Praxis 'incident'. Plus there are a great many examples from non-canon sources, such as the book 'Diplomatic Implausibility'. Talk about problems with Sovereign Rights of a species, yeowza.
If you use ST: Enterprise as a model, the Andorians had not conquered any other races (that we know of yet, anyway) there for, there was no need to worry about such problems. If the Klingons only had to worry about their militant nature, and not their economy, I'd see no problem with them joining the UFP, other than simple stubbornness.
Getting off topic here, sorry.
As with the other parts of you post, I'm in full agreement, anyway I used Earth because it was the first one that came to mind, no other real reason there.
We all need to remember there is a whole non-canon universe out there beyond the hull of a starship, just outside the range of the storys told. Use logic and passion with your version of Gene's creation and above all else, have fun with it.
Of course they do. Starfleet ships are few and far between. I doubt species would join and mothball or scuttle their fleets, i.e. the Axanari for instance. They'd keep for some means of defense or patrolling. And in the unlikely event of wanting to seperate from the Federation they'd have to have a means to defend themselves and patrol their borders.
You are forgiven Phoenix :D hehe
No but yes I fully agree with what you've said the Andorians and klingons are ifferent but the point is still the same - the Andorians would not have emasculated themselves by putting Starfleet in full defence of it's sovereign rights in the early days and I cannot see them doing it later ESPECIALLY after Enterprise shows them like they are ! :D With that in mind I see everyone else being the same but of course it's just opinion untill we see something Canon ! :D
According to some timelines the Axanari did conquer some races, and they werre still let in. it's off topic but it's an interesting problem.. what happens if Qo'nos did decide to join. I imagine there'd be splintering but many would like too. The Klingons love and hate the Federation and I can see a time when they might change their mind - especially when the **** hits the fan when Borg Mk II comes allong or something :D What you did in your past is NOT an issue for the Federation - ALL of the core worlds committed terrible attrocities in their past (Definatelly Earth !) but they worked those out, became mature and got over it! The same could be true for Klingons. Yes there would be a problem with member worlds BUT then what would happen immediatelly would be those worlds would effectivelly (those that weren't wholy Klingon I.e. unpopulated at the time of joining) become Federation prtectorates.. and what happened next would be allot of diplomacy !!!!! :D
QUOTE]Originally posted by Tobian
According to some timelines the Axanari did conquer some races, and they werre still let in. [/QUOTE]
That would be one telling of the Axanar War, where Garth of Izar got his fame. The Axinari petitioned for Federation Membership then went out and conquered some neighbor systems to offer to the Federation as a payment for joining. This misunderstanding of what the Federation was about led to the forceful release of the conquered systems. Once every thing was figured out and apoligies were made the Axanari were allowed into the club.
Yes exactly that's what I am talking about. Whole I see it as highly imporbable the point is the Federation do not just go "meh, they are pure evil - lets just destroy them" They try diplomacy. There's no reason the Klingons couldn't be let in if the right diplomats were there ! :D