Star Trek Sorcerer?

Just wondering if anyone's considered using _Sorcerer_ (www.sorcerer-rpg.com) for a Trek game. Despite nominally being about using demons to get what you want, the system's pretty adaptable to any setting where trying to get what you want makes you risk losing your humanity, however defined.

For anyone here who's read/played _Sorcerer_, how would this work--

"Demons" are whatever characters or things which might lead a character off his/her proper path but offer significant power to accomplish his/her goals: Section 31 contacts, a starship with which one is obsessed with retaining command, Tantalus Field-equivalents, emotional temptations (for Vulcans), etc.

"Humanity" is belief in and dedication to Federation ideals--for Starfleet officers. For others with significantly different core ideals, this might be replaced with, say, Vulcanity (devotion to logic and/or IDIC), Klingonity (devotion to honor), Ferenginess (devotion to profit), or Borgitude (forgive me; devotion to the Collective and the Omega Particle). A character whose Humanity (or whatever) drops to zero either becomes an NPC or, if the GM allows, switches to a new equivalent: Seven of Nine, for example, eventually lost her Borgitude, but the GM allowed her player to substitute a Humanity score and keep playing with a new focus.

Just thinking.

I'm sorry, I don't believe I heard the question.

The question is in the first line of his message:

"Just wondering if anyone's considered using _Sorcerer_ (www.sorcerer-rpg.com) for a Trek game."

Why, oh why, would anyone adapt a completely unsuited system to play Trek? There are three (well, 5 if you count the two versions of Prime Directive) readily available game systems out there for playing Trek. By readily available, I include Internet retailers like Stiggybaby's and on-line auctions on eBay.

Sorry guy, but this is the silliest thing I've heard in a long time.

Hmm it is indeed a very strange idea, because Starfleet does not wield any kind of 'magic' powers either from Demons or not.

As a concept for a game it's not a bad idea, if you substituted the core concept of 'Demons' for Subspace entities - for example Bajorans might learn to wield powers similar to those of the shard of the orb, or you could invent a new alien species which harnesses the power of a susbpace entity(s) to power bizarelly unexplainable 'magic' powers, while having no apparent supernatural abilities or stange body chemistry. Depending on the morality aspect of the game and exactly how these entities are being coerced into doing it (if it i the 'demons' who are playing the aliens or the other way round!) - Starfleet might seriously upset their relationship via meddling, or have to take action on behalf of someone else who is the victim of said powers.. could be an interesting idea.

The way I see it--and I admit that this is, so far, a thought experiment--is that this would lead to a different type of Trek story than other systems, and not the different sort that I think at least one poster here thinks I mean.

The mechanics of the Sorcerer system are about characters taking dangerous risks to achieve deep personal goals, possibly losing themselves in the process. The "modern-day mages and literal demons" thing is just surface flavor, and there are already several Sorcerer supplements (and online homebrew campaigns) adapting the system to other types of settings. I don't mean "Setting X--with demons!" I mean "Setting X--with other setting-appropriate ways to lose oneself in the pursuit of one's inner agendas." For example, the Western movie _Unforgiven_ could easily be a Sorcerer game writeup, and there's not a supernatural entity in sight.

Now in aired Trek, the most interesting characters often do have dangerous obsessions: Kirk with retaining the Enterprise, Spock with suppressing his human half, Worf with affirming his honor despite his outsider status, and so forth. "In the Pale Moonlight" is *absolutely* a Sorcerer story.

Most published Trek RPGs, naturally enough, focus on the mechanics of applying Starfleet skills, combat, and so on; the characters are player vehicles for "Starfleet adventure," which is the real focus. (And, I hasten to add, that's not any sort of problem; I *like* default Trek, and have for thirty years.) Pretty much all the licensed Trek RPGs are geared for the same type of story; only the mechanics and background fluff vary.

Using Sorcerer as the game engine would change the focus of a campaign onto the characters' development themselves; in a way, making it more like some types of Trek fanfiction. Instead of the characters being there to support the adventure, in a Sorcerer Trek game the adventure could be there to support the character development--with the possibility of characters finally falling (Gul Dukat, Larry Marvick, Kes, and Valeris all come to mind).

That's why I'm suggesting Sorcerer. Not as a *replacement* Trek game by any means--I'd hate it if this somehow became the *only* way to do it, and I want plot-driven sf naval adventure and traditional Trek idealism as much as the next guy--but certainly as a different, additional way of doing it.

The idea it's self - a set of moral scales has been seen before - your obsessions and their mirror - and finding a healthy ballance. As a model for roleplay I can see it as an interesting idea, but the system would not be easilly adapted, as a whole.

I am not sure how you would build something like that into one of the current models for startrek.

Without looking at it in depth it seems superficially like White wolf's system of roads and paths of faith (though usually you don't derive powers from that it's simply meant to protray your relative slide from humanity to the beast - or allong alternate paths in various games too)

As a fan of White Wolf I can see that system converted (especially the new version) into something akin to Startrek because the moral value systems of the show are so pivotal to the meaning of trek.. You could have a character who slides down a dark road, losing faith in the instutution or her freinds - untill she 'went off the rails' or redeemed herself.

Ultimartelly however it is vey hard to simplify something like this. A cumudgeonly old ships stores officer might be quite nasty to other people and curt and clipped in his speach, but still be intenselly loyal to his organisaion - people do not fit on an easy scale of one to ten in real world situations, and despite it's plastic gloss people in Trek can be just as real - to - life as any of us today, so generally other than 'style' advantages and disadvantages (rudeness, hatred, enthusiasm, depression etc) to give your character a raison d'etre it's it would be terribly hard to build!

I agree that the concept of retaining Humanity vs acumulation of power/ things is an interesting idea. I'm unfamiliar with Sorcerer, but Cyberpunk 2020 had a system for losing humanity the more metal you grafted onto yourself.

I'm not sure that you would have to switch to a new system to implement it. Using a system like Icon's "Honor" for Klingons or (What was it for Romulans? Glory?)... anyway adding a new stat and rules for increasing/ decreasing and otherwise tracking it to one of the current systems would work better. Sort of a melding of the two systems... say Sorcerer rules being used to track Humanity, and Icon or CODA rules for playing out the action.

The idea of Sorceror revolves around making choices about what you're willing to sacrifice to get what you want. The system is designed to encourage that sort of play.

Even if you put Trek in the mix, you're going to get a different kind of game than that provided by the 5 official systems. It's more about why the character is firing the phaser at the Klingon, than worrying how much damage you're doing.

I'm not sure it would work for that to be a "bolt on" to one of the regular systems.

Why not play "My Life with Starfleet" as a variation on Half Meme Press' My Life with Master? The whole Vorta/Jem'Hadar dynamic just screams of it. Or how about using Ramshead Publishing's Universalis. Either would be a much better choice than Sorceror...