Printable View
So, I netflixed Nemesis and watched it for the first time. Other than the special effects, which I thought were pretty good, and a couple funny one-liners, I thought the movie pretty much sucked.
Has there been any sort of explanation for why Worf was on the ship and why Wesley was at the wedding? Last I remember Worf was the Federation ambassador to the Klingon homeworld and Wesley was off with the Traveller.
I'm just wondering if I've missed something somewhere. :)
Apparently, the explanatory dialogue was cut from the wedding scene. It was in the novelization (which reads like bad fanfic if you ask me and the main reason I've never actually watched the movie).Quote:
Originally posted by Ineti
So, I netflixed Nemesis and watched it for the first time. Other than the special effects, which I thought were pretty good, and a couple funny one-liners, I thought the movie pretty much sucked.
Has there been any sort of explanation for why Worf was on the ship and why Wesley was at the wedding? Last I remember Worf was the Federation ambassador to the Klingon homeworld and Wesley was off with the Traveller.
I'm just wondering if I've missed something somewhere. :)
I saw the movie and pretty much agree. Not only speaking in trek-terms but also drama-wise the movie is simply bad work. However I still bought the DVD, because of the deleted scenes. And one thing is striking. There are comments about each scene and in one of them Steward says that the scene is essential to understand the movie... Then why did they delete it???
That pretty much summarizes what they did with that movie. How could they decide to make Baird director in the first place?
There's very little in the way of canon explanation.
However, if you're looking for non-canon explanations, try picking up the "A Time To..." series by Pocket Books.
Beware, though, it's 9 books long. But the course of the series pretty much fleshes everything out, including why Wesley chose this time to pay the crew a visit, (and save the ship, of course) and Worf's resignation from his Ambassadorial position (after saving the Empire, of course.)
And it sets up the Titan series of books.
Yep, the film did indeed completelly suck :D and agreed, it had nice bits, but then so did startrek 5.... *shudders* hehe.. they could have done all of the plot without making it nonsense..
What irkled me so much was the lack of things to .. do.. for the other crew.. it was too much emphasis on the Pickard Data combo.. the other crew were just window dressing, hence both Guinan and Wesley were present yet not used. The other films used the cast, admitedly weighted, but they did use them, and they packed in so much more sparkle... Hmm it's not a good one to go out on, but I can't see them doing another one for some time!
Consider yourself one of the lucky few. I think I am slowly losing my sight after watching NEMESIS.Quote:
Originally posted by Doug Burke
Apparently, the explanatory dialogue was cut from the wedding scene. It was in the novelization (which reads like bad fanfic if you ask me and the main reason I've never actually watched the movie).
:(
I didn't mind it, really. Not one of the better Treks but I didn't hate it.
The only thing I couldn't understand was, why kill Data? As far as I understand it Spiner hadn't decided he didn't want to do any more. I think most of the cast felt it was the last one but then they always do.
Okay, so maybe it would add a dramatic finale to the film. Well, firstly, it didn't. it made me feel miserable and not want to watch Nemesis ever again and secondly, if you're going to kill off a principle cast member for no particular reason then why completely undermine it by replacing him with an exact copy - right down to his memories?
I dunno, Spock sacrificied himself to save the lives of his crewmates. It was a noble and logical gesture and although he miraculously came back to life in the next movie, it at least meant something for a while that his passing was glorious. I know Data did pretty much the same thing but it felt more like he did it for the sake of it and that the whole piece was just tacked on at the end and the whole thing seemed somehow pointless.
Boo! Hiss!
Also, I'm looking and I'm looking (admittedly on fast forward) and I'm not seeing Wesley at the wedding. What are you all talking about?
Crow
The first half second (about) of the head table shot, just before Picard offers a toast, all the way to the far left, Crusher is sitting there with a foolish grin on his face.
However if you have the Full Screen version, vs. the Wide Screen, that part was most likely compleatly removed.
He is sitting next to his mother in the first table scene.
Welsey Crusher was a (barelly visible) guest at the wedding, he is more visible in the out takes on the DVD, but he is there in the regular movie cut.. you just have to look hard :D
What felt so naff about the way Data died is I found it unmoving.. because unlike, as you point out in Wrath of Khan .. Spock died.. but he died, no iffs no buts no clone spock waiting in a cupboard.. he died.. I think later on they decided to resurect him in Search for Spock (though it may have always been the plan as he actually does do the mind meld thing with McCoy) however this was a very clever piece of script writing, and Data dying.. was about as subtle as a brick. It was clear from the outset what B4 was supposed to do, when Data backed himself up, I mean Hey.. "Wow we just found a wierd clone of Data on a planet, just as we're being called in to deal with the Romulans.. quick copy over all of his memories including all of his restricted Starfleet access codes" Puuleeez :D Data dying also lacked any real poigniancy.. yes it was heroic, but it was just too... Hmm, it was not "I am and I always shall be your friend".. *slumps to the floor* (after heroically wrestling the warp core).. rather than "Goodbye.." Kablewie... he could have least have sung a couple of lines of daisy daisy if they are going to rip that off :D
The whole plot was squeezed right there in one film, as if it was a large glowing vegas show style sign pointing to the obviousness of it. it was never a "WOW i never saw that coming, how clever.."
I don't mind trek occasionally recycling it's self, but it's not good when they do it badly and worse than the original!
Well, regarding Spock, they made his death poignant in the second film yet leave an opening at the end (the intact casket resting on the planet's surface). After all, the Genesis planet was still forming as programmed.
NEMESIS was kinda anticlimactic. Though the real Data died, B4 had enough "essence" of Data to be a reincarnate. It made Data's death have less meaning and his legacy of trying to be human (despite having the emotion chip in the first TNG film) ... well, it's insignificant.
(After a long, long, long away time I return... hope nobody minds if I just jump back into things ^_^ )
Regarding Nemesis I find myself rather neutral. I consider it horribly subpar Star Trek but as far as sci-fi goes it was moderately enjoyable and I didn't feel too upset about having borrowed it from a friend and seeing it for free.
Honestly the movie had one thing I loved: the big fight at the end. Really captured how I've always felt starship combat would look and "feel" if you took away the limitations of inertia (which Star Trek very much does). That scene did wonders for helping me describe combat in the Star Wars game I was running at the time, at least the stuff on the non-fighter scale when a couple of small capships were duking it out.
As for Data's death I found myself pretty well unaffected, as it sounds like most of you agree. That whole scene damn near soured the whole movie for me as I'd always liked Data and felt robbed when he was denied an appropriately dramatic end. That part was, the quality of the rest of the movie aside, utterly pathetic writing.
Of course, I don't know what I was expecting from the movie as a friend had told me before I saw it that in an interview the director basically said he was completely unfamiliar with Trek.
Tasha Yar's death was more moving than Data's. They shoud've done a holodeck funeral as a nod to that Season 1 episode just for kicks.
I thought they did a pretty bad job with Yar's death too, to be honest, though you're definitely right that it was done better than Data's. At least with Yar they didn't soften the impact by having a clone in place. It almost seemed like the writers were afraid of the popular backlash of really killing him so they copped out.
Tasha Yar's death was far more moving nonetheless Data's death was looked upon as a positive thing by me.
In some ways, he finished his journey in exploring humanity by his very sacrifice. The out that was left by the writers through B-4 was disappointing but understandable.
Regards,
CKV.