Starship Combat Question

As I gear up for us to play a session with some starship combat (and run through some practice runs myself), I come across a question that had never occurred to me before. I'm wondering if any of you have dealt with this:

So I get how the basics of combat work. Let's suppose a starship takes a bunch of hits to it's weapons systems, such that you end up with a result of "Systems Offline". Does this mean that all weapons (torpedoes and phasers) no longer work? How about with Propulsion? If it's crippled, does that mean the ship can no longer use it's warp drive? Or is impulse taken out as well?

Or is this another of those things that is meant to be left up to the Narrator to decide?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated!

My personal interpretation of things is that if damage is occurring during combat rather than as plot device, ALL systems of the category are down.

WIth the degrees of success/failure that is at the heart of the Coda rules mean that when the engineer doesn't quite pull off the TN to get the system cluster online, a minor shortfall might get ONE of the weapons or propulsion systems online.

I've always played it as when a system is completely down that means all of it's functions are down.

That's how it seems to work on Trek TV shows, and in the movies. More so for weapons, really, than engines. I've seen ships have their "warp drive out for a solar day", but impulse is still on line, or vice-versa.

But when Riker orders Worf to target an enemy ship's weapons system, and Worf does so, it seems the ship has no weapons at that point. And cannot return fire.

This would assume that when Riker gives the order "Target their weapons systems and open fire !" Worf follows that order by getting separate locks on the enemy ship's phaser emitters and photon-launchers as exposed on the surface of the ship and fires a barrage of phaser blasts at those separate targets.

I think I'm realizing as I type - Worf is a damned good shot !!

Thanks for the answers, both of you! That's kind of the way I've been looking at it, too.

I agree that for weapons it seems to be a little more clear cut. I can recall them saying that "weapons are inoperable". But for propulsion, I seem to remember many times when the warp drive would be out, and they could only limp away on impulse. Can't say for sure that this ever happened as a result of combat, though.

It sounds like it's really a Narrator's discretion sort of thing. And having the quality of the repair roll determine how much is restored makes a lot of sense as well.

Thanks again! :)

A few more questions; I could start a new thread but they're all about starship combat so for now I'll keep them here.

1) When using the System Damage charts, what does one do when all of the boxes are checked (and that system has gone offline)? If that number comes up again, do you consider that no more damage can be done to that system and figure that the hit just impacts that particular area (thus doing nothing)? Or do you re-roll and have another system hit?

2) Anyone used Tomcat's outstanding Starship Maneuver Cards? They're pretty handy (I printed them out and put them in card sleeves, with TCG cards behind them to give them weight), but I noticed at least one difference: for Lock On his TN is Target's Protection +5/Weapon System used, whereas the rules from the NG show it's simply the Target's Protection. Any ideas why he might have changed this?

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Originally Posted by Fugazi Grrl

I've always played it as when a system is completely down that means all of it's functions are down.

That's how it seems to work on Trek TV shows, and in the movies. More so for weapons, really, than engines. I've seen ships have their "warp drive out for a solar day", but impulse is still on line, or vice-versa.

But when Riker orders Worf to target an enemy ship's weapons system, and Worf does so, it seems the ship has no weapons at that point. And cannot return fire.

This would assume that when Riker gives the order "Target their weapons systems and open fire !" Worf follows that order by getting separate locks on the enemy ship's phaser emitters and photon-launchers as exposed on the surface of the ship and fires a barrage of phaser blasts at those separate targets.

I think I'm realizing as I type - Worf is a damned good shot !!

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You know, as I've thought about this, and as I mapped out where all fifteen torpedo tubes are on our Akira-class cruiser (and that's not even counting the three phaser banks), I've realized how difficult this could be, in some cases. :eek:

I suppose there could be some sort of critical spot(s) to still hit a ship with this many weapons, though, that could take all of them offline. :cool:

What probably happens is that Worf knocks out the EPS distribution network for the weapons thus rendering the weapons inoperable.

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Originally Posted by somaticon

What probably happens is that Worf knocks out the EPS distribution network for the weapons thus rendering the weapons inoperable.

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That makes a lot of sense; thanks, somaticon! :)

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Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

A few more questions; I could start a new thread but they're all about starship combat so for now I'll keep them here.

1) When using the System Damage charts, what does one do when all of the boxes are checked (and that system has gone offline)? If that number comes up again, do you consider that no more damage can be done to that system and figure that the hit just impacts that particular area (thus doing nothing)? Or do you re-roll and have another system hit?

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I've never had an already offline system take another hit, but my experience running starship combat tells me that re-rolling is just pouring salt in the wound. If systems are off-line, odds are the ship also has significant structure damage. My personal ruling, if it comes up damage to an already offline system, it must be divine providence. Somebody light a fire under the engineering staff :D

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Originally Posted by Doug Taylor

2) Anyone used Tomcat's outstanding Starship Maneuver Cards? They're pretty handy (I printed them out and put them in card sleeves, with TCG cards behind them to give them weight), but I noticed at least one difference: for Lock On his TN is Target's Protection +5/Weapon System used, whereas the rules from the NG show it's simply the Target's Protection. Any ideas why he might have changed this?

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I can't speak to design differences, but I use the reference sheet for maneuvers from PGoodman's site for me and have a set of the cards for my players. Since all the starship maneuver rules are in the NG and most of my players don't have it, the cards are a nice substitute.

I tend to lean that way myself, K.G. (figuring they just got lucky if a system already down takes another hit). The shot must have just hit that area that is already nearly gone. :)

I kind of do the same thing, with the Maneuvers sheet being used by myself and the cards going to the player controlling the ship (the Captain). That one card seems to be different, though. The sheet shows it just like the NG, but the card has a different TN.

In our big starship fight in our first episode ("A First Test"), we ran into some issues with the ref sheet and the cards. Minor stuff, mostly, but enough that we began double-checking against the books. Some of the stuff from Starships, especially, didn't seem to translate to the cards well ("Scorpion Maneuver," I'm looking at you).

Sadly, I don't have the opportunity to check the things out that get posted on my site nearly as much as I'd like. The stuff in the zine, yes, it gets edited, but the individual things don't get much of a once-over, I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by PGoodman13

In our big starship fight in our first episode ("A First Test"), we ran into some issues with the ref sheet and the cards. Minor stuff, mostly, but enough that we began double-checking against the books. Some of the stuff from Starships, especially, didn't seem to translate to the cards well ("Scorpion Maneuver," I'm looking at you).

Sadly, I don't have the opportunity to check the things out that get posted on my site nearly as much as I'd like. The stuff in the zine, yes, it gets edited, but the individual things don't get much of a once-over, I'm afraid.

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That's okay, Patrick. I think I can speak for everyone here in saying that it's okay. Just having all of those great resources in one easy to find site is extremely helpful! For the most part everything on your site (that I've seen) is really well done and the mistakes are only minor ones. :)

So on my third practice session (with starship combat) I/we came across a host of things that we're not 100% sure on. I'd love your perspective on these, even if you're not completely sure yourself.

Keep in mind that I know that this game's combat system is meant to be more abstract, and that one can't always analyze it from a tactical point-of-view.

1) With Cloaked Attack, it allows the vessel to take a free Multiweapon maneuver. Does this mean that the ship does not have to get a Lock On (which is normally a prerequisite for Multiweapon)? In other words, does the ship have to get both a Lock On, and then Close by 2 range increments (thus requiring two rounds) to be able to pull this maneuver off?

2) There doesn't seem to be a way to do a strafing run of any sort, where one ship closes on the other, fires at it, and then flies by it in the same maneuver. Has anyone made up their own way of handling this? Or is there a maneuver I'm missing that allows ships to do something other than passing each other and then making a Come About or Hard About maneuver to face each other again? Or do you consider that the vast distances between them (over 650 miles away even at Point Blank range) allow for them to stay away from each other without passing?

3) Has anyone ever done anything like allowing one ship's Captain to interrupt the actions of another? I was thinking that if Captain A beats Captain B in initiative by an Extraordinary success, that perhaps he could allow Captain B to go first, then after Captain B's ship has taken a single action, Captain A could interrupt and take the next one. Anyone ever experiment around with doing something like this?

4) When a ship gets a +5 bonus to protection (say from a Come About maneuver), how long do you generally allow that bonus to stay? I was thinking letting them have it for one round would be reasonable. Letting a ship have this bonus after three action rounds (when they've done all sorts of other moves in-between) just seems strange.

5) We discovered that using the maneuver Target System seems to be a waste of an action early on in the fight, when many ships still have a high Shield Threshold. If you do simply 1 or 2 points of damage over their Threshold, it really doesn't do anything at all to them (since it requires 3 over to knock out a box on that particular System Track). In the case of doing 1 or 2 in this case, it only seems fair to have that damage applied to the ship's Structure. Otherwise it is simply a wasted attack, it seems.

6) When a ship fired twice in the same action round, should they be able to do that from the same torpedo launcher? On the shows it often seemed like the same launcher would jettison a torpedo twice in a row, but I don't know if that is really practical (since the crew could be loading photon or quantum torpedoes based on instructions from the bridge). So do you think different launchers have to be used?

7) If a ship has Lock On on their opponent, and - due to System damage - they suddenly no longer have the ability to execute Lock On maneuvers, should their current Lock On go away? We figured that it probably would (since that particular system of the ship is no longer working).

8) If the Commanding Officer has Command 2, can he give that +1 bonus (or +2 if you allow that) to more than one character? The way it's written (referencing the plural) makes it seem like he/she could give that bonus once to the Tactical Officer, and another time to the Helmsman, and then perhaps later to the Engineer, etc. if they're all on the bridge with him/her during the battle. Or do you think it's meant to be only one time (or twice) per game session, period.

9) There doesn't seem to be a range listed for a ship that Disengages. Has anyone come up with a range (Extended +3?) where they are just so far away that they have gotten away? Or do you simply make it that - in a one on one skirmish - the wounded ship could perform a TN10 maneuver and flee instantly using warp speed?

10) For that matter, range doesn't seem to play much of a role, other than having beam weapons be a bit weaker at longer ranges. Is there something I've missed that makes shooting a weapon harder when one is at Long or Extended range, as opposed to Point Blank? In Lord of the Rings, it's harder to shoot an arrow at somebody from far away, but in Trek it doesn't seem to have much impact on sensors or ship weapons.

11) Initiative seems to be a different kind of skill test. I know you don't usually record it for experience points later (if you track that way) and it's the Captain's Tactics roll, not the ship's (so you don't add in the ship's Tactical maneuver bonus). How about Courage? Can the Captain spend Courage to boost his Initiative?

12) Could one use the Fast Attack maneuver to do a strafing run? As I put in question #2, there doesn't seem to be a way to fly at the opponent, shoot at it, and then go flying by. Has anyone used Fast Attack (or any other maneuver like it) to have ships go flying by each other?

As always, I really appreciate the insight and wisdom so many here have. Many of you have played this game a bunch and might have worked through some of these issues, or faced the same dilemmas or situations. Thanks for taking the time to consider these! :)

Patrick, you do a great job with the site and our game would be lost without it !!

And I love Tomcat's cards. Very helpful during starship combat. Which we do a lot of !