Sonic guns?

I was wondering if sonic guns appear anywhere in Star Trek, and if they could do some original alien weapon.

A sonic gun uses an coherent wave of sound instead of particles or plasma (some sort of sonic laser - I don't know whether this sort of thing exists in our world). The various settings on the gun could be obtained by varying the frequency of the sonic wave.
Now if I remember correctly my physic courses, the higher a frequency is, the more energy it carries. So the lowest settings would correspond to infrasonic frequency, rising to ultrasonics for the higher settings.

At lower settings, the infrasonics would be able to stun living creatures (this being the stun setting), while, when rising in ultrasonics, the sonic wave would be able to damage people and objects.

Such a weapon would of course be inoperant in the vacuum, and its effectivenes would vary depending on the local pressure (the thinner the atmosphere, the less efficient it becomes).

Also, given that sound waves can usually pass through materials, it could be possible to target someone/thing who is fully covered (maybe only certain settings could do that). On the other hand, the range of this weapon would be much more limited compared to other type of weapons.

Any comments/suggestions?

I believe that some of the races in TOS used Sonic Disruptors, Eminiar VII and Vendicar are examples, IIRC.

If I remember right, Eminiar used sonic disruptors to attack NCC-1701 in orbit (:(!). Maybe some kind of matter stream weapon that carries shock waves through vaccuum? Jeez, the things I come up with to justify TOS "science"...

C5, sounds like you've got a believable and well balanced weapon in mind. If you come up with game stats, please post them here.

Actually, there are some prototype sonic weapons under development right now. They're lovingly called 'pukers': they make you lose bowel/bladder control, affect your balance, sight, and give you a mother of a headache.

Ain't soft-kill weapons great?

I don't have the book with me right now but. . .wasn't there a sonic grenade listed in the Price of Freedom ?

Maybe some playing around with those stats could produce a decent hand held weapon?

Eminiiar and vendikar both used hand held sonic disruptors (Which amazingly looked like klingon disruptors).

Hey sarge, didn't you know sound travells in space. Hell every time the Enterprise passes the screen it makes a Woooosh Sound

There was also the episode of TOS on Capella when Kirk and Spock modified a Comunicator to emit a sonic wave to cause an avalanche

Karg
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I can't seem to find any sonic grenade in The Price Of Freedom.

Here is what I had in mind :

A sonic weapon could operate in three different modes (each one with one to four settings).

Low power infrasonics : this range of settings would stun living target, like every energy weapon in stun settings. Due to the nature of infrasonics, it would be actually possible to hit targets through walls with that setting.

High power infrasonics : the frequencies would be exactly the same as with low power, however this time the waves would carry much more power, and be able to effectively harm or kill a living being. Hitting targets through obstacles would still be possible, but the damages would be reduced.

Ultrasonics : these settings use ultrasonics frequencies to damage things and people, just like any other weapon.

The range for this weapon would be rather limited anyway (up to 50 meters on most cases). Some devices could use a lens to concentrate the sonic wave at long ranges (like a sort of parabolic loudspeaker)
The damage would also vary according to the air pressure (for instance, if the reference is the average pressure on Earth, the damage would double when the pressure is twice the one on Earth).

More details to come as I think further (coming with actual game stats for instance). In the meantime, comments and suggestions are still welcome.



Now, I finally graduated from this damn Academy :)

Sonic weapons have a good grounding in both science fiction and reality. Larry Niven's sonic stunners, Doctor Who's Ice Warrior's sidearms, etc. In reality, the Natzis experimented with sonic weapons in the final days of WWII - producing huge instruments that could kill if you stood in the focal point for 40 seconds.

So sonic weapons can work. And it's true that the higher the frequency, the more energy is carried (atmosphereic density is another variable). However, even relatively low-powered or stun weapons will still more likely be ultrasonic in frequency range.

Shooting through cover would depend on the acoustic properties of the cover. Even if sound was transmitted through the cover, it would no longer be in a beam format- it would be spreading sound and thus would rapidly lose energy density and destructive power. For the same reason, it wouldn't work to shoot someone "through" a communicator.

The above makes the assumption the sonic weapon does damage through conventional energy-delivering to do damage. If something more aesoteric is going on (for example, if stunning works by using hypnotizing or otherwise taking advantage of a previously-unknown biological process [like say sonically 'inducing' a gland to release a dangerous chemical in the body]) then the above does not necessarily apply.

Thanks a lot, Diamond, for these very interesting technical data. That was the sort of informations I was a bit short of. I'll take them into account.

Having the sound wave being calibrated to deliver a particular sort of attack different from the one induced by power only is an extremely good idea.
For instance, the sonic wave could match some of the resonance frequency (hope this is how it is called in English) of a living body. Thus, such a wave could provoke extremely violent vibrations in some organs, resulting in unpleasants effect ranging from temporary impairements to death (imagine your own heart suddenly vibrating suddenly vibrating a few tenth times per second... :eek: ).

BTW, I took the idea of sonic weapons from Resnick's novels (the Widowmaker series), then added some elements from Doctor Who as well (I remember the sonic lens from The Monster Of Peladon).

Quote:

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Originally posted by C5

I can't seem to find any sonic grenade in The Price Of Freedom.

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Now that I have my stuff with me maybe I can be more help! ;)

Hum. . .sorry about that "Price of Freedom" refrence. I thought it was in there. But I did find it among some other stuff.
Maybe someone can clue me into where it came from:

It is a double sided page copied from a book (pp. 157-8)

Heading is "Starfleet Dynamics: Security Department"

Type 3B-Sonic Grenade

Length: 120 mm
Width: 40 mm
Height: 40 mm
Blast Radious: 50-500 meters

Description--
A man-portable explosive device, delivered by throwing or placement. The explosion is caused by a force chamber overload, which allows the operator to select blast intensity by choosing how much poer to feed the chamber from the powerpack. The Type 3B can be used in the following modes:

Hand Grenade: Open cover, depress arming button, and throw. Authomatic minimal detonation in fifteen seconds.

Satchel Charge: Set timer to desired durations, activate adhesion strip, attach to target, open cover and depress arming button.

Proximity Mine: Activate sensor, activate adhesion strip, attach to target area, open cover and depress arming button. After a tenn second delay period to allow operator to get clear, grenade will detonate at the next approach of a large mass.

Remote Mine: Achtivate communicator channel, open cover and depress arming button. Grenade will detonate with the correct code is transmitted from a communicator on the proper channel. Can be disarmed by the transmission of the correct code-word.

*****

Well. . .looking at it now I don't think that will do you much good. Unfortunatly that is all the information on it :( , but maybe someone will at least be able to tell me where it is from ?

You're welcome C5. I liked Resnick's novels as well. Note that his version of sonic weapons are the straightforward energy-delivering ripping-apart type of damage.

I haven't been able to get my hands on the 3rd part of the Widowmaker series. Nor the 3rd part of the Oracle series. He influenced one of my ICON Doctor Who adventures... the hypercompetent but extremely disturbed frontier mercenary/assasin archetpe that reappears in Resnick's books I used as the inspiration for "'Cemetary' Jane", an assasin who was hired to kill "The Fish" - a revolutionary who was causing trouble on the ocean-covered frontier world.

Actually "The Fish" was Resnickesque as well... as well as other aspects of that adventure (the galactic government was acting through intermediaries, more interested in peace than justice because they were concentrating on fighting the Daleks on the other side of the Empire).

We had a talk about this sort of thing a while back, once again I put up a laborously long post on it that you might find useful.

http://forum.trekrpg.net/showthread....light=fortunae

Check it out, the beginning touches on stuff that doesn't apply but later down you will find some sonic weapons and other alternate violence forms goodness...

Let me know what you think.

redwood : FYI, I've not found this grenade in any of the books I have (TNG & DS9 core books, Price of Freedom, Player's Guide - oh, and the extensions on time travel, holodeck, and Vulcans but I wasn't hoping to find it there anyway).

Fortunae : that was indeed an impressive post (I remember reading it, but I wasn't registered at the time)! I think I will tap in it for future adventures.
In fact, I started to think about sonic weapons exactly with the same motives you expose at the beginnning of your post - creating a weapon more alien than phasers, disruptors, and projectile weapons. Then I remembered Resnick's universe and it's sonic weapons - and further, Doctor Who (BTW Diamond it's too bad you couldn't read the last of the Widowmaker's series, it was cool - but I've not read any of the Oracle either).

So, using Fortunae's and Diamond's data, some stats :

For the destructive sonic weapons, a coherent ultrasonic wave of sound that destroys what it meets (the basic Resnick sonic weapons), the 4+4D6 in Fortunae's post are a good basis for damages (of course, the settings may vary).

For the stun sonic weapons (designed for stunning living creatures only) Fortunae's rules can still be applied, or some damages from the stun settings on phasers/disruptors can be imported.

As for the lethal sonic weapons (same as above - only this time, the frequencies are meant to actually arm the target), maybe this time something like 8+3 or 2D6 would be in order. This type of weapon can't destroy objects.

All these weapons would function normally as for armor and obstacles so far (that is, like energy or projectile weapons).

Now, some other type of sonic weapon : resonant-based sonic weapons.
These weapons emit a sonic wave whose frequency is matching the resonant frequency of a precise substance - a material, a body part of a specific species, etc. Once struck, the target starts vibrating with more and more amplitude, and, if the sonic emission doesn't stop, will break.
Its uses range from selectively destroying a certain type of rocks in an archeological expedition to murdering someone by cardiac failure.

Calibrating one of this weapon to a particular target requires a
Difficult (9 or 10) test on the relevant skill (for instance, Physical Science(Physics) for a material, or Medical Science(Relevant physiology/organ) for a living creature). Depending on the power used on it, it could be harmless for any other type of target, or do some damage based on the destructive sonic weapons type.
Since their damage rely more on frequency, they could operate through obstacles - although the sonic wave will be diffracted by the obstacle, thus reducing the range of the weapon to a few meters after the wave went through the obstacle. If the nature of the obstacle is known (for instance, a certain type of rocks), it can be possible to calibrate the wave so that it won't lose its coherence when going through it.

Concerning the damages done to organs, here are some rules I was thinking of :
Assign the organ the same number of Wound levels as the living being who owns it. The sonic wave will do something like 1D6 damage to this specific organ (Resistance may or not apply, at the Narrator decisions). Count the damage points normally for the organ (but NOT for the being).

A Wound level of Stunned or Injured correspond to a temporary malfunction of the organ. This effect wears off after one round (consider the Wound levels are recovered), if the target is not hit again.
A Wound level of Wounded or Incapacited inflict a permanent damage to the organ. The effects won't wear off until a medical operation is performed. Until that, the organ is impaired.
Finally, if the organ is to Near Death or Death, it is definitely disabled and won't function until healed.

Some targettable organs :
Eyes (when wounded, gives the Vision Impaired disavantadge until cured, or Blind if they are disabled),
Lungs (reduce the fitness of the being when hit - if the organ is disabled, the being is automatically to the Near Death level until the lungs are healed),
Muscles (partial or total paralysis),
Heart (Bad Heart disavantage or cardiac failure if the organ is disabled),
Brain (automatically stuns the being, and provokes brain damage and brain-dead death with further wound levels).

Opposite to the other sonic weapons, wich can be used by pre or early warp technology instead of projectile weapons, these type of weapons require a much more advanced level of technology.

Hope all of this is understandable (sometimes I find my english more garbled than usual). I'll post further precisions later. Comments and suggestions still welcome.