Starfleet Marines (not restarting the debate)

PLease dont let this refuel the debate:

Does anyone have any stats on marine equipment/vehicles/skills etc for a SFMC unit?

While this will let the cat out of the bag. Here is a series of enlisted overlays I came up with for ground force/marine personnel. They are based on 36 DPs and use the Zero skill specialization rule from the players handbook.

ENLISTED OVERLAYS

VEHICULAR SPECIALIST
A diverse group of enlisted personal, who drive the various ground vehicles and fire their main weaponry as part of the larger combined arms team of the Federation Ground Forces and selected units in Starfleet Security. They usually train for nearly a full year, usually on Earth or Andor, before being assigned to an active line unit. While most can perform routine maintenance on their vehicle, heavy work, such as engine and main weapon repair, is beyond their everyday capability.

Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Ground Force Systems (Vehicular Systems) 1 (3)
Heavy Weapons (Choose Specialization) 1 (3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)
Vehicle Operations (Armor Vehicle) 1 (3)

ARTILLERY SPECIALIST
Trained in the use of all modern artillery systems, Artillery specialist operate in support of the front line units in combat providing pinpoint fire support and cover. Many of these personal are found in the ranks or transfer later into the ranks Starfleet Tactical and Security operating the heavy Shipboard, Planetary and Starbase phaser arrays found on them.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Ground Force Systems (Artillery Systems) 1 (3)
Heavy Weapons (Artillery Systems) 1(3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)
Vehicular Operations (Artillery Vehicle) 1 (3)

ENGINEER SPECIALIST
The Ground Force Combat Engineers are not quite the intellectual equivalent of their Starfleet equals they are still highly skilled and valued personal trained in the use of demolitions, construction, and destruction for the support of the Ground Forces. However many also help build and restore damaged worlds from both war and natural disaster.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Demolitions (Land Mines and one other Specialization) 1(2) (2)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
Engineering, Structural (Civil) (Combat) 1(2) (2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Heavy Weapons (Choose Specialization) 1(3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)

INFANTRY SPECIALIST
The word Infantry, no matter what world, race or culture one is from means the same thing a tough determined individual and a survivor.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Demolitions (Land Mines) 1(2)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Heavy Weapons (Choose Specialization) 1(2)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Personal Equipment (Choose Specialization) 1(2)
Planet Side Survival (Choose Specialization) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)

TECHNICIAN
From Shuttlecraft mechanics to Ordnance experts these enlisted personal can fix and rebuild just about anything in the Ground Force and Starfleet inventory save for a large starship and that given some extra time might just be done.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Computer (Choose Specialization) 1(3)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
Engineering Systems (Choose Specialization) 1(3)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Ground Force Systems (Choose Specialization) 1(3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)

TRANSPORT SPECIALIST
A Transport Specialist is one who operates various ground vehicle for the substainment of ground forces. They know how to load and operate a vehicle so as to get the most out its capability. Many have been known to show great efforts and heroism in getting “The Stuff” through to the troops who need it the most in environments where Transporters can not work.
Athletics (Jumping) (Running) (Climbing) 0 (1) (1) (1)
Dodge 1
Energy Weapon (Phaser Rifle) 1(2)
First Aid (Combat) 1(2)
Ground Vehicle Systems (Vehicle Systems) 2 (3)
Ground Vehicle Operations (Transport Vehicle) 2 (3)
Law (GF Regulations) 1(2)
Primitive Weaponry (Combat Knife) 1(2)
Throwing 1
Unarmed Combat (GF Martial Arts) 1(2)

These are good do you have any more. Do you play with Starfleet Marines.

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You don't have to like you just have to do it .
Richard Marcinko

I use Marine the same way the US Navy uses them. I think there are overlays in the Price of Freedom book. As for equipment I just you the stuff in the players guide and the PoF books. I mean all they really are is well trained with a phaser rifle. I will see what else I can find.

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Cpt. Damian Harn, U.S.S. Brittania N.C.C. 31379

remember, only in USA the marines are attached(or independant) to the navy

in France "Les Troupes de Marine" create in 1626 by Richelieu are attached to Army

In spain "Tertio del Armada" are attached to Army


in italia "San marco" are attached to Army

.....................at vita eternam


Why this obstination to name ground soldier "Marine" ?




[This message has been edited by kalamaro (edited 03-31-2001).]

Don't ask. Just ... accept.

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"Killin' is my business, and business has been gooood!!!" - Commander Benson Winiford Payne, 373rd RRT, just prior to the end of the Dominion War.
"Must somebody need killin' somewhere?" - Commander Benson Winiford Payne, two days after end of Dominion War and having been informed of the disbandment of 373rd RRT

I use Starfleet Marines as, more or less, specialized security personnel. A very small force . . . but with the new, more militant, or atleast more security minded leadership, this small force has become more common in day to day operations.

I guess they've been dubbed marines due to the fact:

A)this is an american based science fiction series which draws from the american naval tradition

B)In the movie Aliens those who fought were called Marines

C)Currently the leading space agency is NASA

I know there are a couple other explinations . . . but is far to late . . . and I'm far to sleepy to think about them . . . night all.

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"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

Quote:

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Originally posted by kalamaro:
remember, only in USA the marines are attached (or independant) to the navy

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This is correct - for purposes of unit organization - but "marine" has come to mean "shipboard troops." Generally "marine" (no capital letter) refers to a soldier deployed from or based on a ship, while "Marine" (capitalized) refers specifically to a U.S. Marine.

Also, speaking as a former Marine, the relationship between the Marine Corps and the Navy is a sensitive subject for many Marines. Technically the Marine Corps is part of the Department of the Navy, but it is still an independent armed force.

Quote:

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Why this obstination to name ground soldier "Marine" ?

---

I think the real reason that Star Trek doesn’t like the term “Marine” is because Star Trek was first produced in the late 1960’s, and back then the term “Marine” conjured up images of the then ongoing war in Vietnam…


[This message has been edited by Cessna (edited 03-29-2001).]

Moderator hat... err... helmet on.

STOP

Old timers know the drill... Discussion of how to use marines in games is welcome in this forum, especially from a Narrator's perspective. Discussion of whether one should, whether they have a place in the Star Trek universe, why they didn't use them in Star Trek, etc. is not, at least here. Discussion as to whether or not they "belong" or "must be" in the Trek universe is appropriate in the Star Trek forum while general discussion of the marines would find a happy home in the General Forum.

-Dan, Co-Moderator




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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_staff.gif

Not trying to rekindle this old debate, but why is it that so many people seem to have trouble the idea that Star Trek doesn't use marines.

Probably because SF is not a "military" organization and the term "marine" is a very militant term, "security personel" sounds more defensive, exactly what SF was looking for. Starfleet security personel are basically marines...They provide security during peace time...They fight when needed, both in space and "dirtside". I don't see what the problem is here, if you want "marines" in your game then use RRT info in PoF...If not then use the standard security templates. In Star Trek they are basically the same.

Note, I said in "Star Trek they are basically the same" I obviously did not try to draw any lines between marines and navy personel...That just makes the marines mad. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

whoo jalu3

the US Space Command is a USAF Command,
and the USAF they aren't Marine

the Marine in Nasa are just to Surveil the instalations

in startrek i'm prefer "Rapid Reaction Team" is to much than grunt

[This message has been edited by kalamaro (edited 03-29-2001).]

There is no problem with the debate.

The problem is the location of the debate as to whether marines exist in Starfleet. It is simply not on-topic, to either the Narrator's Forum or the Questions & Mechanics Forum. One of the advantages to these boards is it allows people to get involved in the discussions they so choose.

What is ok in those two forums? People posting overlays for their version of Starfleet marines would be reasonable. Discussing campaign ideas would be reasonable. Posting adventure suggestions for marines is fine. Posting ideas on how to integrate a single marine character with an otherwise "traditional" group would be fine. I noticed this marine thread when it first started. But, it was appropriate for the forum, as it dealt with things that a narrator might find useful. If one didn't want to use marines in one's game, no problem, the thread could be ignored.

It's the same thing as the animated series or novels. If someone wants to post details of Edoans (the three-armed dudes from the animated series), that'd be fine. An idea for a follow-up adventure to an animated episode would be fine. Suggestions for ways to run a Star Trek: New Frontier game are fine as well.

However, a debate as to whether the animated series should be canon does not belong in the Narrator's or Questions & Mechanics Forums. The Star Trek Forum is the perfect place for that. Same as for discussions as to whether or not marines should exist in the Star Trek universe.

(note - please do not respond to this post in this thread - I'd prefer to see if it can get back on-topic - if you feel a need to reply, feel free to either e-mail Owen and me or to post in the general forum).

-Dan, Co-Moderator

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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_staff.gif

[This message has been edited by Dan Stack (edited 03-29-2001).]

OK, then please relocate this string so that we can continue with this drawn out discussion . . . cause that's what usually happens with this one.

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"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

Pissed-off Moderator mode engaged. Note: I do not like scofflaws.

Jalu3, what part of "please do not respond to this post in this thread" did you not understand? Do you think Dan meant "everyone but Jalu3 do not respond?" The rules apply to everyone. You are not helping the situation by demonstrating that you have no respect for the fact that a moderator was trying to salvage the possibility that the thread can actually remain on topic. If you wish to continue the long pointless argument, go over to Star Trek Chat or General Chat and start a thread. Don't demand that this one be moved there because you haven't the self control to restrict your typing.

End of rant.

Let's rephrase the question: does anyone have any info on Starfleet Ground Forces? That's the specific term used onscreen by Admiral Ross, so that's the term I'm going to ask everyone here use - if someone slips up and accidentally misspells it "Marines," just read "Ground Forces" in its place and keep to the topic. If you are in the pro-Marine faction, remember the Monty Python sketch - it's pronounced "Marines" but it's spelled "Ground Forces." Hey, we're all role-players here, we should be able to handle this...

Moderator hat off:

Gamer hat on:

Eric has, I think, got us off to a good start with his Overlays.

As has been pointed out, there are some Overlays in The Price Of Freedom for the Federation's Rapid Reaction Teams (you can pronounce that "Marines," "Special Forces," "Commandos" or "SEALS" if you wish). That book also has several weapons which would be at home in a campaign involving Federation Ground Forces, including photon mortars, stun grenades and other nifty lethal toys. The TNG Players' Guide provides a couple of Rapid Response Team character Archetypes and a few more bits of kit. That's about it for official LUG material on the subject.

On-screen information in the TNG era is even scarcer. The DS9 episode Nor The Battle To The Strong (an homage to The Red Badge Of Courage) mentions a vehicle called a "hopper," which from context sounds like a type of 24^th century armoured personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle. It also shows us what appears to be a Ground Forces uniform, apparently a padded (or armoured) tunic worn over a standard uniform. A later DS9 episode, The Seige Of AR-559 (or was that 558?) gave a further glimpse of Ground Forces. The DS9 finale, What You Leave Behind, mentions landing Ground Forces on Cardassia Prime, but doesn't show them in action... That's about it.

Anyone interested in the subject of Ground Forces should check out John Stanford's site.

Whoops!

Sorry about that, folks. I didn't realize how much of a hot-button topic this was...!