Aotc...

Disappointing to say the least. What a big letdown really; ok, where do I start ?...

Random thoughts...

First of all, Hayden C. is NOT a bad actor. I think he is doing his best with the stupid lines and the very heavy-handed directing of George Lucas. He is at his best in the scene where he describes the Tuskan massacre to Padme.

Natalie Portman fares better, but see comment above.

The asthetics of AOTC do not look as kidified as those of TPM, but the CGI is still too clean-cut, intrusive and ultimatley unbelievable. The alien diner cook whose a friend of OB1 is a prime example of that. Most of the sets look surgically clean and stale. Sometimes I thought I was watching a Playstation 2 intro.

But my biggest letdown was how great actors like Christopher Lee and Ian McDiarmid were underused to say the least. Lee is a much better Sharuman (LOTR) than a Count Dooku. Palpatine was more interesting in TPM.

And then you have some unbelievably silly parts, like C3P0 and R2D2 meeting the Lars familiy, then in ANH Owen Lars buys them but dosen't recognize them ?! Anakin finds his mother and she dies 5 minutes after ?! WTF ?!

On the plus side...

very little Jar Jar; he has only a few lines.

I liked the Coruscant chase. The look reminded me of Blade Runner. Well done and it went a long way into "de-kidifying" the movie.

The clone army looks cool. It really is the "prototype" of the Imperial army.

The final battle is amazing. It lasts for quite a while and it is quite epic. The only negative about it is that it looks too CGI-ish, sometimes showcasing some vehicules like the GIJOE cartoons did to sell crap toys.

And finally,...

The Yoda fight! YES it is amazing and it doesn't even look silly (for SW of course) Everyone in the crowd applauded when he appeared, and when he started to fight I surprised myself letting out a loud "holy s***". He looks pissed and you know he means business.

I would say better than TPM, but nowhere near TESB. LOTR : The Fellowship of the Ring and Spiderman were FAR better movies than AOTC. And the strange thing is, I really don't like comic book stuff and even less anything "neo-medieval"; my thing is space opera yet I'd pick these 2 movies over the latest crop of SW flicks any day. Sad, really.

The reason why I think it is a big letdown is that there was tons of potential with all of those good actors but it really didn't go anywhere. A little polish here and there on a few lines, line delivery or some of the sets could have turned this into a very good movie. Lucas should really start trying trusting his actors. It really shows that he hates working with them. For the record, I never thought that TPM was a terrible movie, it was a fair sci-fi flick with its share of problems. I view AOTC as being within the same league.

Dok's verdict : fair movie; improvement over TPM (little Jar Jar; no 8-yr ols brat); could have been a lot better with a little work; but still plagued by many of the same problems found in TPM.

Interesting. Well it opens over here tonight, but since I'm on night shift until monday, it'll be at least next week before I get to see it.

Thanks for the review :)

I have to agree with Doktor Evil.

The acting was poor, the direction was poor, and the writing was horrible. Its only redeeming factor was that it was 'pretty'.

The funniest thing in the film was something that wasn't supposed to be funny - the Anakin 'wet dream' sequence. He is asleep, calling out 'mom! mom!' and looks like he's busy under the sheets. I wondered if we really should be seeing this. The whole theater busted out laughing during what is supposed to be Anakin feeling his mother's pain, a serious scene.

Lucas couldn't help but to kiddify it - breaking up some great action sequences with R2 and C3PO humor that just didn't fit with what was going on around them.

And yeah, the best part was Yoda kicking some Dark Jedi booty with his lightsaber. However, the sequence was too short, and didn't quite have the 'epic feel' that the lightsaber battles in ESB or TPM had.

Overall, I give it a thumbs down.

The crowd I saw it with thought the same thing about the nightmare sequence (waiting for Amidala's, ahem, involvement to be shown). Also, was I the only one waiting for Yoda to proclaim that he "loves the smell of napalm in the morning" during that last scene?;)

The film wasn't too bad, imho. The one-liners and the poor attempts at humour with the droids could have been left out. I wasn't too impressed with the first hour or so, although I realise it was building up the story. The big battle was much more impressive than the one in ep1. Perhaps the best part was just when all the Jedi showed up, lightsabers extending..

I have to say that I disagree completely, this was a really good film. The action sequences were good and despite the kid playing Anakin (who was not providing a stellar performance) the story moved and was much tighter than Ep 1.

Altogether I'd have to say that Ep 1 was the 'Fumble' and Ep 2 is the 'Recovery' (much like Star Trek V was the 'Mistake' and VI the "Apology').

It restored my faith in the franchise to a large degree.

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Originally posted by Publius
...the story moved and was much tighter than Ep 1.

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This isn't hard to do. Episode I was one of the worst editing jobs I've seen in a film. Stuff that should have hit the cutting room floor (Jar Jar?) turned the pacing of Menace into a quagmire.

This one had some bad cuts, but not nearly as many. Overall, in terms of pacing, this film is much better. But that doesn't make it a good film. It's just a faster-paced bad film. ;)

Some of the effects looked rather cheesey (usually involving live-action/CGI and camera movement together).

Perhaps I'm overcritical - I am a Star Wars fan, but I've also got a pretty good education in film studies and have worked in the industry, too. I wouldn't say that the movie absolutely sucked (c'mon, it's Star Wars), but it had many problems.

If I had to rank them, this is how it'd go:

• Empire
• A New Hope
• Jedi
• Menace
• Clones

Menace and Clones (both pretty bad, IMHO) rate at the bottom, but Menace felt more.. Epic. This is our generation's Odessey or Iliad, and Clones just fell kind of flat.

Just so I don't sound like a whiner, here are some things I liked:

• The fact that Jar-Jar is responsible for handing over the reigns of the galaxy to Palpatine. Yet another reason to throw him to the rancors. :)
• Natalie Portman's belly button. Tasty.
• The visit to Uncle Ben. Aside from him having no idea later on who 3P0 and R2 are, there's a nice tribute shot that mirrors the dinner scene from A New Hope. Very nice reconstruction.
• The tall, skinny aliens. They were awesome.
• Natalie Portman's belly button. Yum.
• Jango Fett vs Obi-Wan. Very well done and perhaps the best action sequence in the film aside from the green munchkin spinning and jumping.
• The Sandpeople scene. I wish it lasted longer.

Oh, yeah. Did I mention Natalie Portman's belly button?

All right, I'm going to weigh in on the argument, although it is probably a bad idea and some rabid fanatic will no doubt come chasing after me with a plastic lightsaber for it... :D

Saw the movie. Thought it was pretty good. Not the best movie (ESB gets that title among Star Wars films, mostly because it is the transition between ANH's introductions and ROTJ's resolutions and thus contains the character development; I'm not going to get into an argument over the movies I like better than Star Wars) but certainly not the worst movie I've ever seen (That would be either Plan Nine from Outer Space, or Santa Claus versus the Martians, it's a toss-up).

Could it have been better? Yes. If they had spent a little more time developing the characters and their relationships and a bit less on action sequences, I think it would have given ESB a run for its money. I think the main problem is the greater number of plotlines and secondary characters we track throughout the film. The original trilogy was much sparser in terms of characters (and action, and, well, pretty much everything), while the last two films have been a bit cluttered. A little more emotional depth out of Hayden and Natalie would have been nice, but the when have frustrated teenage love affairs ever been anything but awkward?

For those who complain about the dialog being stupid: go back and look at the original trilogy. Examine the dialog there. Ignore the sentiments that have built up over 25 years of loving the movies and you'll find that the dialog is very pedestrian. There is honestly little difference in quality between the script for ANH and that of AOTC.

Honestly, the biggest problem with the current trilogy is the apotheosis that the original trilogy has experienced in the quarter century since Star Wars first showed up in the box office. After all the buildup in our heads, even being physically transported into the Star Wars universe would be a disappointment. We've gotten so set in our minds about what Star Wars should be that we start ranting about George Lucas selling out or being a heavy-handed director (he's actually a pretty hands-off director; he preffers to do his work in the editing room, where he started out in the industry) when his vision doesn't coincide with ours.

Now, before you chop my head off with that lightsaber, please take a deep breath, count to ten, and see if I don't have a point or two in all this...:D

-Chris Landmark

Hi Chris!

First off, welcome to the boards. You'll find we don't chase after people with lightsabers around here. Just phasers and polaron guns. :D

I can see your points - and you've got good ones. I wouldn't call George a sellout. But I will call him a bad director. He's directed how many movies in the past thirty years? Four. He's just not very good at it. And if TMP is an indication of his skills as an editor.... :)

I disagree that ANH is as vapid in the script department as this new one. Yes, there were some vapid lines in that film. But it wasn't every single line, like this one almost was. I wince at fewer lines when I watch it than I did when watching Ep II last night.

I'm not a rabid SW fan by a long shot. I was when I was a kid, though. I have consumed very little source material outside of the five movies, so my concepts of the SW universe aren't quite as gelled as perhaps some other fans' are. I'm not knocking the movie because it's trendy to Bust George's Chops - I'm knocking it because I feel that it had some big flaws.

I like your description of it being 'cluttered'. Indeed, when I saw TMP I sat there at the end wondering what the hell just happened. It took a second viewing to sort it all out. This one wasn't as cluttered as TMP.

Like you said, it's not the worst movie I've ever seen. But it is the worst of the five films so far, IMHO.

Oh, yeah, one more thing I like: Death Star plans.

Mrs. Stack kicked me out of the house to see it today... (Apparently this way when we see it next week, if Victoria (daughter) fusses during the movie, I get to leave the theatre to take care of her...)

I liked it a lot. Obi-Wan Kenobi was a joy to watch. Anakin was a little bit of a bratty punk - like a lot of kids I went to high school with. Oddly enough, many of them wound up with the "good girls" as well. I didn't care for the "romance dialogue" too much - I felt it sounded like a high school freshman (with apologies to high school freshmen...) reading "Romeo and Juliet" out loud but upon reflection, perhaps that is appropriate - this is Anakin's first and only romance and I seem to remember being a tad awkward in my first relationship - and I didn't have the excuse of being in the Jedi Temple for over a decade.

What everyone says about Yoda... ditto.

I personally liked the CGI. Maybe I'm too easily pleased - in general I couldn't obviously tell what was CGI - I mean I know the buggie monsters and diner dude had to be CGI, but I thought it was well done.

The fall of Anakin Skywalker seems to be rather well setup. Oddly enough, I suspect many action movies nowdays would show the Sand People massacre in a positive light - "get revenge on those baddies". It was neat to hear Anakin talk about how much he hated them without a mentor constantly reminding him to beware the Dark Side (though I could have sworn I heard Qui-Gon's voice for a second - "Anakin no!")

The evil Emperor's masterplan seems to be what I suspected in Episode I - create a threat which gives you an excuse to gain "emergency" powers - i.e. play both sides. Also goes a long way to explain why the soon-to-be-Empire could remain in control and possibly be popular - the Rebel Alliance would no doubt remind many of the Separatist Movement. The first appearance of the Death Star Plans are a nice touch as well. Jar-Jar creating the Empire seemed somewhat ironic. Though this was written way before September 11, it seems somewhat approriate, given the desire many have to expand the powers of the Federal Government and various law enforcement agencies of the United States. (Not saying that need be a bad thing, but it does seem worth noting...)

The Jedi losing their power seems interesting, though I need to see the exact explanation in Episode III before I decide if I like it.

One thing I thought curious - I would have sworn they mentioned the Republic was a thousand years old but most sources had put it around 25,000 years old - "for over a thousand generations, the Jedi were guardians of peace and justice in the old Republic..."

The presentation of the clone army at the end was creepy.

I liked the music too - seemed very appropriate.

I liked it a lot. A few dislikes...

• I thought the first hour could have been tightened a little bit. The setup was enjoyable, but it seemed just a tiny bit too long
• I think they really could have used a little more setup with Anakin dreaming about his mother. I understand the novel does so.
• I'm not sure if the C-3PO humor worked for me. Mind you it's not really that much more than that of Empire Strikes Back, but it seemed a little overdone.

If I were to rank the movies, I'd probably put Empire Strikes back first still. Next would either be this or A New Hope (I need time to think). Follwed by Phantom Menace, then Return of the Jedi. Though I have enjoyed all five. I suppose in the interests of disclosure I should indicate I'm a big Star Wars fan, possibly more than I am a Star Trek fan :eek:, though it'd be close. The Star Wars movies make me feel like a five year old boy again, sitting in an air-conditioned movie theatre in Brooklyn, sitting far back in his seat, terrified of Darth Vader, with lines for the next showing wrapping around the block (though my uncle and I perfected the
"wait in the restroom between showings" technique of seeing multiple showings...)

Ok, saw it tonight and I have say to Doc Evil and all the other dissentors, I couldn't disagree with you more.

Working from memory on the negative posts above, you will let me know if I forget one;

1)Acting. Yes, it could have been better, but it was no better or worse then the acting in the original trilogy. The only really bad acting that has been in a SW film was Jake Lloyd.

2)CGI. Totally worked for me. Very seemless. Particularly like the views of Coursant and Yoda.

3) Writing. Pretty much see above. As far as I am concerned it was a good story and well told. After all the same person wrote the original trilogy, and remember he had most of the whole story written way back when. It was impractical to do the whole thing. So, I can't see how anyone could flame the writing.

4) Under used actors. Don't see this as well. Darth Sidious is the evil that dwells in the background...It wouldn't do for him to come out so early and annouce what he has planned. Christopher Lee, I seem to remember he had about as much screen time in LOTR, perhaps a little more, but not much.

5)C-3PO on the Lars Ranch. Watch the movies again and see how droids are viewed, even by the good guys. Droids are tools to be used and discarded. There is like 40 years between TCW and ANH, can you remember the first hammer you ever used?

Personally I think alot of people need to take the "rose coloured " glasses of Nostalgia off...The original trilogy is done and in the past, it can't be built on, it can only be added to. Which is what I think TPM and The Clone Wars (the tiltle it should've had) have done. To rate TCW 4.1/5, it really has me hyped for EpIII.

To rate over all;

ESB 4.9/5. Sorry nothing is perfect. :) And hey, I like it when the bad guys win.

RotJ 4.5/5

TCW 4.1/5

ANH 4/5- TCW had more action and was a little more exciting IMHO.

TPM-3.5/5- Little slow, but a good start.

Well, I went to see it tonight (and even got to see some fanboys and girls in their costumed glory! :D ) and I have to say that I was really overwhelmed by how much I liked it.

I, like Dan, will add the disclaimer that I am a really big Star Wars fan, far more so than Star Trek. That aside though, I went into this movie with more than a bit of trepidation after having read the novel, which I picked up back in April when it was released.

Thankfully, my trepidation was ill-founded, as I found that I thoroughly enjoyed this movie.

First, my likes:

- The action: Now, I'm one of those that gets impressed easily with big explosions and flashy effects, but I found that the action in this film was really impressive. And, moving beyond the big battles and whatnot, I'm referring to, as one example, the duel between Anakin and Dooku, where Anakin smoothly switches from fighting with one weapon and uses two, without even having to pause or re-posture himself. As someone who enjoys dueling, I found that to be pretty cool.

- Yoda: Like everyone else has said, he rocks, but beyond that, his humor and style really get to shine in his appearance. I especially liked his entrance and exit from the final battle.

- Anakin: This is sort of a double-edged sword for me, because I find myself both liking and disliking Anakin. I can sympathize for the character and his troubles and struggles, but at the same time I find myself wishing that he would focus more and gain more control, though he can't (or else he wouldn't fall, which would sort of ruin things! :p ) I think, though, that's what Lucas wants...to create a character that people can feel for, but also learn to dislike, but, deep down, always feel a bit of sympathy for.

- Artoo and Threepio: It was good seeing them back in action together. The added benefit was that, like old times, my friends and I found ourselves translating his beeps, toots and other sounds for him, usually as gruff and occasionally coarse language, which is always fun!

- Mace Windu: He's a bad mutha...oh, wait, I'll just shut my mouth! :D

- Palpatine: Ok, it's really, really easy to see why this guy is the Master. I mean, how cool is the fact that this guy doesn't even need to use the Dark Side to manipulate events to his own advantage. To my mind...brilliant!

- Dooku: It was nice to see a villain use the Temptation Factor again, instead of just walking out, looking cool, kicking a bit of butt, and then dying. He showed that a Dark Side villain can still do a bit of both, come off every bit as cool as Darth Maul-ed, and live to see another sequel.

- The Clonetroopers: Was it just me, or did these guys really rock? Aside from the fact that they'd take orders from any Joe off of the street, they seemed way cooler than Stormtroopers, though they should be, since they're way more expensive. It's too bad that the future Empire has to cut back to make superweapons, or else they could have had the biggest, coolest army in Star Wars history!

Ok, and now the bad:

- The love story: While I didn't so much dislike the dialogue, which, as others have noted, is no worse than stuff from the other movies, the acting of Ms. Portman seemed a bit forced. I attribute this to her statement that she felt she could find no chemistry between herself and Hayden Christiansen, and that she apparently found him as interesting and attractive as an old, rusted doorknob, but at the same time she is an intelligent, well-paid actress. She could have gave it the "old college try" as they say (since paychecks from Lucas are paying her way through college) but she seemed to fall flat.

- The nightmare: That could have used more development, or perhaps a dream sequence or something. Anything more than Anakin laying in bed and muttering "Mom" over and over again would have been good. The novel did a nice job developing this part (one of the few good things that it did, in my opinion).

- Lack of development of the Separatist Movement: It would have been nice if Lucas would have provided some more on-screen infomation about the movement and Dooku's involvement. While included in the novel, it could have fit nicely on the screen and might have made for an interesting scene with Dooku and Anakin (or Obi-Wan) as Dooku made his case, and used it to try and better persuade them to join him.

Oh, there are others, both good and bad, but I don't want to sit here and type all night. All in all, I really enjoyed it, and I'd rate it behind Empire as my favorite, for the moment. At this point I'm really looking forward to sitting down and watching all six movies in 2005 and then trying to rate them, especially after Lucas adds the new footage to the original trilogy to make them fit with the new trilogy. I think that's when I'll really know what my favorite is...



Greg

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Originally posted by Anomaly
Oh, yeah. Did I mention Natalie Portman's belly button?

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How long are the scenes in which she wears that white jumpsuit-with-many-holes-innit? :)

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

I have yet to see it but want to inject on some points here. I watched ANH for the first time since BEFORE Phantom Menance (I tried to make it all six years but just couldn't do it). It is amazing how even with TPM certain actions and motions connect for instance, when Ben finds Luke knocked out and speaks to R2 D2 THERE is recognition in his voice and him calling him friend takes on a whole new meaning. C3Po Never says a word when Ben is around he shits up and acts like he keeping something to himself. In the Cantinia Ben has this, "I am getting to Old for this crap" look on his face. This has all made me appreciate Sir Alex's performance all the more. However the light duel has to be remixed with music from the new triology to fit well, perhaps this is why there is a lack of music in the Special Edition during the duel considering both ESB and ROJ went with a music score. If lucas does do the special DVD edition look for this area to be worked on as well as the destruction of Alderan, I can see a scene with J.Smits already calling out to Ben upon his death.

Also too Lars not recognizing C-3PO perhaps it also has to do with the fact that the design is fairly typical for a droid as is R2's, what would make Owen think these are the same droids from so long ago?