unnamed level system?

Printable View

06-12-2002, 04:28 PM
otaku mike

unnamed level system?

I don't see the point in the experience points system. CODA is apparently a skill based game system (ie Shadowrun), but it artificially sticks the players to advance only at thresholds, exactly like a level based game system (ie D20).
I don't like levels, they seem so unnatural to me.
Here are my house rules (but still untested as I own the game since only one week):

I will reward my players with a number of picks at the end of each adventure (lets say, a number between 1 and 5).
I'll let them use the picks immediately or keep them for a later use.
The players cannot have more than 5 unused picks at any time.
If they have a total of 6+ unused picks, they must spend them in order to return to a total of 5 or less before the next adventure.

Please let me know what you think of that.

PS: I'm glad to see a regular poster from dumpshock here with me Patrick. Your sample character creation process page is excellent.
06-12-2002, 04:40 PM
qerlin

Actually, that's pretty close to what I was planning on doing. I don't much care for the point to advancement to picks thing, either.
06-12-2002, 06:04 PM
Ramage

I agree totally.

Exactly what I am planning for my game starting this week. :D
06-13-2002, 02:12 AM
C5

Same here. :)

Although actually I don't plan to impose a limit on the number of unavailable picks... if a player wants to play XP-squirrel, that's his problem ;).

OTOH, my concern is to keep the players from maxing their professional skills after a few adventures (hence the usefulnessl of the 2 points on prof. skill per advancement limit in the original rule).
For that reason, I plan to add a time component as well :

A player raising an attribute or skill must spend (current level of skill) * (pick cost) days training in that skill.

For instance, if a player with Computer Use +5 wants to increase his skill, he'll have to spend 5 days using that skill if it is a professional skill, and 10 days if not.

I consider a PC can train in 3 different skills per days for these rules (one for the morning, one for the afternoon, one for the evening). I'm also much more lax for skills used during a adventure - if a player used a skill to help the plot resolution, he can advance in it, no matter how many days he practised before, but no more than twice.

Since I plan of sticking to warp travel times (for instance, 2 days in average from one system to its neighbour), I'm not concerned too much with my players lacking time to improve their skills - I just have to think to ask them if they choose to train in a particular skill during their duty (my players are StarFleet), and if they spend some time in the holodeck.
06-13-2002, 10:56 AM
Imagus

Re: unnamed level system?

Quote:

Originally posted by otaku mike
I don't see the point in the experience points system. CODA is apparently a skill based game system (ie Shadowrun), but it artificially sticks the players to advance only at thresholds, exactly like a level based game system (ie D20).

This definitely seems to be a matter of personal preference. I'm afraid I go the other way - I can see why the advancement limit is there, and it makes sense.

Basically, it's in order to prevent people "accelerating" a skill or other ability by spending all their picks on it in one go. C5's time limit will have the same effect, but if like me, you're going to run an episodic game with an undefined time period between each episode (I'm roleplaying the show, not the world the show takes place in), you can't impose time limits.

Using a finer level of experience allows the referee more control to apportion advancement according to how he feels the game is going. For example, Player A is roleplaying really well, taking part and solving problems, Player B spends half his time reading a book and ignoring the Narrator. With picks, I might look at an average of 3 picks for the session, and then really penalise Player B by only giving him 2. But what happens with Player C, who is actively taking part, but occasionally does something stupid? 2 1/2 picks? With experience, I can give A 600 xp, B 400 and C 500 - and I can adjust it even more finely if I want to.

While I love both GURPS and Hero, and have played them for a long time, I sometimes find that their points systems aren't quite fine enough for what I want to do. I wind up inappropriately rewarding bad players and penalising good ones!

As I say personal preference.

Let's get one thing straight though - this is not a "level system like D20". Level-based systems impose all kinds of additional restrictions, handing out specific bonuses at each level. You get very little choice as to what you do at each point. All that is happening with Coda is a grouping of experience into blocks for ease of expenditure.
06-13-2002, 12:49 PM
qerlin

"Let's get one thing straight though - this is not a "level system like D20". Level-based systems impose all kinds of additional restrictions, handing out specific bonuses at each level. You get very little choice as to what you do at each point. All that is happening with Coda is a grouping of experience into blocks for ease of expenditure."

It was already straight, dude. I just think a lump of improvements that come with the advancement system is a touch much. I'd rather see AN improvement, rather than a bunch of them in one shot.

Just me.
06-13-2002, 03:10 PM
otaku mike

Re: Re: unnamed level system?

Quote:

Originally posted by Imagus

This definitely seems to be a matter of personal preference. I'm afraid I go the other way - I can see why the advancement limit is there, and it makes sense.
Basically, it's in order to prevent people "accelerating" a skill or other ability by spending all their picks on it in one go. C5's time limit will have the same effect, but if like me, you're going to run an episodic game with an undefined time period between each episode (I'm roleplaying the show, not the world the show takes place in), you can't impose time limits.

You have a very valid point. Anyway the advancement system only delays the problem with a player who really wants to maximize a level in one of his skills. The advancement helps to regulate and give the feeling that the character is harmoniously developing.
I have the luck to have players mature enough to avoid falling into minimaxing style.
Eventually, another problem arise : there is no difference (cost-wise) into gaining a level on a level 1 skill or a level 10 skill...
In my system, I guess I'd have to introduce a cost scale depending on the reached new level.

For example, for a professional skill:
The upgraded skill's level is 2 to 6 -> cost is 1 pick (normal cost)
The upgraded skill's level is 7 to 9 -> cost is 2 picks
The upgraded skill's level is 10 to 11 -> cost is 3 picks
The upgraded skill's level is 12 -> cost is 4 picks
The upgraded skill's level is 14+ -> cost is 5 picks

For a non-professional skill:
The upgraded skill's level is 2 to 6 -> cost is 2 pick (normal cost)
The upgraded skill's level is 7 to 8 -> cost is 3 picks
The upgraded skill's level is 9 -> cost is 4 picks
The upgraded skill's level is 10+ -> cost is 5 picks

Quote:

Using a finer level of experience allows the referee more control to apportion advancement according to how he feels the game is going. For example, Player A is roleplaying really well, taking part and solving problems, Player B spends half his time reading a book and ignoring the Narrator. With picks, I might look at an average of 3 picks for the session, and then really penalise Player B by only giving him 2. But what happens with Player C, who is actively taking part, but occasionally does something stupid? 2 1/2 picks? With experience, I can give A 600 xp, B 400 and C 500 - and I can adjust it even more finely if I want to.

Again, a good point.
I have to admit that I don't feel in need to have that kind of "carot and stick" tools with my players. The fun they have during the play is the reward in itself. Experience points, or directly picks in my proposal, are only there to show that the character has evolved too during the game. I gamemaster Shadowrun since 11 years, and I've always granted all my players with the same amount of karma. None of them has complained about that.
But again, I admit it is a particularity of my gaming group. Others may disagree with my view of RPG and want more of the "calculator" side.

Quote:

As I say personal preference.

Exactly my thoughts. I never wanted to impose my opinion. I just offered an alternative. This alternative can be abused, though.

Quote:

Let's get one thing straight though - this is not a "level system like D20". Level-based systems impose all kinds of additional restrictions, handing out specific bonuses at each level. You get very little choice as to what you do at each point. All that is happening with Coda is a grouping of experience into blocks for ease of expenditure.

The title of the topic I started is a question. I just noted some bits of the advancement rules that looked too much level-ish too me. I never said CODA is a level based system like D20. I said it looked like something close to a D20 level system... Well, rhetorics ;)
06-13-2002, 03:53 PM
calguard66

I plan to go with awarding one pick per 200 points. Players can save up picks for edges and so forth that require more than one, but can't save more than five, and can only make two purchases per adventure, one skill and/or one ability and/ or one edge.