The Decline and Fall of the Romulan Star Empire

The Decline and Fall of the Romulan Star Empire

There are two major plots involved in Star Trek: Jolly Roger.

The Alpha plot involves the decline and collapse of the Romulan Star Empire.

In the months following the conclusion of the Dominion War an ambitious Romulan senator - Saduj Kessel - is able to manipulate the Romulan military into invading Federation space. He also arranges invasion of the Klingon Empire, the Breen Confederation and the Taurhai Unity.

This over taxes the Romulan military and deeply divides the Romulan senate. It also provides client worlds the opportunity to rebel.

Kessel is able to leverage himself into the position of Emperor.

However, his sever abuse the Romulan Empire makes Romulas it self vulnerable to attack.

The Borg exploit this chance and send two cubes to Romulans - or, rather, one cube to Romulas and one cube to Remus.

The Romulan boxed set, in its description of the Romulans, seems largely based on the Roman Empire. In this scenario, the Romulans are over taxing their military with endless wars and then the barbarians (the Borg) arrive and sack Rome.

The player characters intervene because no one wants a Borg converted world with in a few light years.

When all is said and done, the Romulan Star Empire is broken up into two major empires - east and west. The West empire - one one that boarders Federation and Klingon space - is largely Balkanized and has also made territorial concessions to both the Federation and Klingon Empire.

However this has not yet happened. Right now the players and there ship are trapped behind enemy line during the Romulan invasion of the Federation.

What are your thoughts or observations?

If it works for you in your game, excellant.

As a fan (and loyal supporter of D'era and the Empire http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif) there are a few things I would like to point out. Don't take this as a critisism.

1) That Senator would have to be mad, I mean this in the strictist literal sense, to attack all the major Empires at once. As Londo Mollari pointed out "only a fool fights a war on two fronts, only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of fools fights a war one Four fronts. Something a Romulan would not normally do. History dictates that the other side make a move first.

2) To become Praetor a Romulan needs the full support of the people and the majority of the Senate. If he did not then the various Coalitions, Senatorial and some of the Command Fleets (and not a few of the Praetorians)would move in and crush him.

I am of course biased here but to me it would be better to center the decline around the Klingons, that is something they would try. Particularly under Gowran, but of course he died...Slowly. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

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In the Praetors Name!

Originally posted by Phantom:

"1) That Senator would have to be mad, I mean this in the strictist literal sense,"

Yes, he is insane in the tradition of Nero and Caligula and Hitler and Stalin.

"only a fool fights a war on two fronts, only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of fools fights a war one Four fronts."

Funny you should write that, but that is the exact thing one of the players said.

2) To become Praetor a Romulan needs the full support of the people and the majority of the Senate.

He stages a quop and declairs himself emperor. The civil war is part of was break up the Empire.

"Particularly under Gowran, but of course he died...Slowly."

Well, Kessel will be eventualu assimilated by the Borg. And not all Romulans approve nor act as dishonorably as does Kessel.

Simply put, I wanted the Romulan empire to fall, but I did not want it to be neat and tidy.

If you have an idea for it in your game, go for it. Your world after all. I'll just be over in the corner shuddering at the thought of my beloved Empire falling. (shudder) http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

Good Luck and have fun.

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In the Praetors Name!

It's your game man, but I think I'm going to join Phantom over in the corner......

Phoenix...long time Romulan player...SFB, FASA, LUG, and Decipher I hope.

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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon

Phantom, you're my kinda player http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

Seriously, though, you're the Narrator and it's your game, so do what's fun for you, that's the whole point. As for me and my Tal Shiar campaign, all you Federation wahoos better watch it, because the end is near http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

If it works for you, go for it. Me, I've done a bit more of a moderating thing with the Romulans -- civil war that led to a UFP-backed praetor. she's not a UFP puppet, but she's definitely realized that after the Dominion War, no one's got the minimals for a really good fight right now.

Splutter...cough...wheeez...greek!!! A UFP backed Praetor?!?!?! Outrageous! The Empire would never stand for such a thing...Completly unthinkable. It will be a warm day on Breen when that happens! http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif (face turning red) and that is feat for a Romualan.

Interesting concept. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif Don't mind my Romulan friend, Centurion Tre'val, there. He'll be fine in an hour or so. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

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In the Praetors Name!

Go hard man! I am not one of the "Romulan Fans" but many of my players are and every time I try and do something that moves the Romulans forward I get lambasted by them. But then they also like the Diane Dunae "Elves in Space" Romulans too http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

Certainly Star Trek (especially DS9) has shown us that mighty star empires cannot be stagnant and must grow and change, or decline and fracture.

If you continue the logic that the Dominion War represents the equivalent of WWII in Star Trek, then the post war shake ups are huge. Though I think the Romulans probably best represent the Cold War Soviets, more so than the Klingons.

Perhaps remenants of the Tal Shair could be involved and are trying to regain control over the Empire? Have fun with it and remember that you can always travel throught ime and undo your mistakes http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

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Captain Zymmer
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Visit Star Trek:Strange New Worlds at;
http://www.geocities.com/aslan_collas
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This was my treatment for "Series V" about a year ago. It also involves the Fall of the Romulan Empire. Feel free to use what you can:

*I want to start off by admitting that the concept of this story is shockingly similar to that of the New Frontier books by Peter David. However, I came up with the idea independently, before I ever read those books. Truthfully.*

It's 5 years after the Dominion War.

The Romulan Empire, having used up most of its military resources during the War, and, due to its isolationism not being able to economically and politically recoup, has collapsed.

The Romulans have split into several squabbling factions, each of which is trying to gain power in its own way, including:
--- Old Imperialists
--- The Tal Shiar
--- The Unificationists
--- Petty Warlords, Pirates, and wannabe Emperors

The Orion Syndicate is moving in.

Various and sundry planets that were previously Romulan-subjugated worlds with servitor people, are rebelling, some simply seeking independence, some looking to startup their own little Empires.

The mysterious unknown powers on the other side of Romulan space (What I assumes the Romulans to mean in "The Neutral Zone" when they spoke of 'matters of greater urgency caused our absence,' I suppose these could be the Taurhai) are making subtle moves and overtures.

Into this cauldron, as an attempt to help create a little stability, while simultaneously gathering information in space that was previously a no-go area, is flung our heroes' starship, either a veteran of the Dominion Wars, or a ship that was constructed shortly thereafter. The older members of the crew are War veterans, the newer ones not much more than cadets. (This would reflect the losses suffered)

They are guided through this space by a Romulan or two on board, possibly including a garaklike character (cross Garak and Neelix?), any or both of whom may have agendas of their own.

Additionally, the fragmenting Romulan Empire could be seen as a RL mirror to the mess in Yugoslavia and Russia. One could do stories on ethnic cleansing, terrorism, the Federation having to pick the lesser of two evils in the broken up Empire.


[This message has been edited by First of Two (edited 08-11-2001).]

What happened to the Tal Shiar?
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Best speed to Gallifrey!
Commodore Horatio Richard Jaeger
CO USS Audacity,NCC-85901

Damn, First of Two, that sounds like a LOT of fun. How did the game go?

I'm curious-the discussion has centered around the Romulans and their eventual decline and fall, a la Yugoslavia, but I wonder if that's an accurate analogy. In this instance (and this may be the first one yet. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif) I agree with Phantom, the "Yugoslavia" comparison fits the Klingons much more. What about keeping with the "Roman Empire" theme, and having them teeter with corruption, but brought low by the barbarians? I understand Grumpy wants to bring in the Borg, and that's cool, but what about the Klingons instead? Both "alternate futures" we've seen in the final episodes of TNG and Voyager indicate relations with the Klingon Empire do not remain friendly, and in "All Good Things . . ." there is reference to the Klingons having conquered Romulan space. Both the Romulans and Klingons were badly devastated by the War, what if the Klingon Empire disintigrated, or was in the process of doing so, and Martok had no choice but to unite his people in the only way he knew how to as a soldier: find an enemy. He can't (or won't) go after the UFP, but the Romulans are another story. Meanwhile, the Romulan Senate is crippled by internal squabbling with the post-war reconstruction, Kessel could stage his coup, (which is the only way I can see him doing it, honestly)and the Klingon/Romulan conflict begins. Now the UFP is stuck between two of their Allies; which way do they fall? The Klingons have been allies longer, but they're bloodthirsty and they launched the invasion in the first place. Because the Klingons have invaded, the Romulans can't spare the time to deal with Kessel's coup, they've got more important matters to deal with. (Namely survival) Now, the two great (remaining) Empires are at war, the UFP is struggling to keep their head above water, and the Borg are taking a good hard look at the Alpha Quadrant again.

Just my random stream of conscious babbling. If it seems more scattered then usual, please excuse me, I've been involved in an argument over AIM while writing this. And for the record, Phantom, I bear you no ill will and enjoy reading your posts, I just like tweaking you 'cause you seem to take it in stride and send it right back. And that goes for everyone on the list.

Alright, off to paint. Night all.

I find this arc of conversation interesting. I like Verbena's idea, I like one fronts wars...makes more sense historically. And I agree the Romulans and Klingons would enjoy knocking the poogees out of one another, it is this coup that I find disturbing. The way the Star Navy is broken up this would prove difficult. Kessel would have to gain support of one of the other factions. Now as a Senator (he is one right?) he would have access to his Senatorial Fleet and more than likely his Coalition Fleet. Now as far as I can tell all the Command Fleets combined, even after the war lets not forget the Klingon war machine is even worse off, would be more than a match for whatever force the Klingons could muster. That leaves the other Senatorial, Coalition and Praetorian Fleets to deal with our friend Sen. Kessel. Romulan society is geared to stop this sort of thing from happening. And this is not even including what forces the Tal Shiar could bring to the table.

Now I am not privy to what you have in mind for the background, it would be very interesting to see it unfold...It would have to be a very political game to run. Maybe you have a plan for all that I have said, so please don't take this other than constructive critisim. Keep us updated. I would very much like to see how this game ends.

Oh and Verbena, don't worry. I'm a very agreable person. Just watch it when the mud flies, as you say I can sling it as well as anyone. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif Don't take that in a negative sense, just be prepared to hear from me if I don't agree with you. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif Why dose it seem so strange that you agree with me?

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In the Praetors Name!

Eh, I was really cranky last night, don't worry about it. I agree with your point on the difficulty of one Senator suddenly seizing power in a coup, the way the Romulan government is set up in the LUGTrek universe would be difficult. My question now would be: how hard WERE the Romulans hit by the Dominion War? As far as I know, DS9 never really delved into the Romulan involvement in the War, with the obvious exceptions of Senator Cretak and the tension between the Romulans and Klingons. Now, i haven't seen all of the War episodes, so maybe I'm missing something, but were there any battles of the War fought in Romulan space? How much of their manpower and material did the Star Empire commit? We all assume, that in correlation of the Romulan character, they committed some, but kept a significant percentage at home for "future considerations," ie backup reserves or even a force to sweep across the Alpha Quadrant after the War. We assume that's the force that the Romulan Star empire has to rebuild from. Right?

But what if we're falling prey to "what we know" of the Romulans ourselves? We don't know what the status of the Romulan Empire is after the War, they sure as Hell aren't going to broadcast their casualty reports. They could have been as gutted by the War as the Klingons, and we don't know. When the Tal Shiar/Obisdian Order fleet was annihilated, the Empire siogned a non-aggressin pact with the Dominion, correct? The impression I got was that they had significantly invested in that operation. For some reason, the Star Empire seems to fear the Dominion, a Romulan warbird was ready to destroy the wormhole in that episode where O'Brien kept shifting in time. Then they cooperate with the Cardassians to the point where they loan the Obsidian Order cloaking devices! And they didn't expect the Order not to figure out someway of duplicating them? They might as well just handed over their greatest tactical advantage to their greatest enemy, at least in the Romulan's perspective. The Romulans consider the UFP weak, and the Klingons barbarians. They acknowledged that they were closest in spirit to the Cradassians, at least in the LUGTrek version of the Romulans, a viewpoint that makes perfect sense to me.

Now, it seems the Romulans fear the Dominion more than anything before the War. They sign a pact. Now, I'm a little hazy on the next part-the Romulans did show up at the fleet around DS9 when the Dominion came through the wormhole and Dukat unveiled his sudden alliance with them before or after the pact was signed? I thought it was after. That means they broke the pact, right? So they must fear Dominion retaliation, which means they're hoping that the UFP/Klingon alliance can stop the Dominion before such retaliation takes place. At the very least, they're hoping both sides will weaken enough that the Star Empire can sweep both sides away.

But that isn't happening. The Dominion is winning. The Romulans must be getting nervous, but also a little arrogant-obviously the Alliance is unsuited to the War, they need tacticians and "real soldiers." Then evidence arrives that the Dominion is planning strikes against the Romulans. Yes, it's the evidence falsified by Sisko and Garak, but the Romulans don't know that-and I don't think they'd look too closely either! They now have their excuse to get involved, show the Dominion who really intends to rule the Alpha Quadrant, and teach the other Allies to respect Romulan power in the meantime.

When the Romulans commit to something, they really commit. I think they pumped what they had remaining in the War effort, just to insure the Dominion gets kicked back to the Gamma Quadrant. This obviously alters the parameters of the Alliance, as they eclipse the Klingons in terms of "most valuable ally" status. The klingon Empire took many blows in the War, especially in the early stages as they upheld a good chunk of the fighting-because their culture is warrior based and the UFP is not. While the UFP is building for the conflict, the Klingon Empire is primed and ready-and they hold off the Dominion long enough for the UFP to get on war footing. OK. great-but this has several bad effects for the Klingons-they get hammered! They're the ones soaking casualties, and then their hampered by their leadership problems-aka Gowron. The Klingons begin to loose the War, and need the UFP for support. Then the Romulans join. If we go with the WWII analogy, the UFP is the USA, Romulus is Russia, and I think the Klingons are Britian-holding out against "Gernmany" (The Dominion) and "Italy" (Cardassia). Britian in the beginning was the most fervent opponent of the Germans, but they overextended themselves and needed US support to continue. Then Russia gets involved, and all of a sudden the Allies become the US and Russia with Britian supporting, but no longer the key player as they were.

Bear with me here-there is a point to all this, really. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

The Klingons are faltering, the Romulans step in, smug and ready to prove their worth to the Allies. Great-but then they realize they have to effectively replace ther Klingons-which means more commitment from them. More men, more ships. I think the Romulans got sucked in by the Alliance, and started to sink. After the War, they were much worse off then they let on. In fact, if I remember the final episode correctly, weren't the Romulans pretty much shattered by the final battle? I could be wrong about that, though.

Gaia, this is getting much longer then I anticipated. For those of you who've gotten this far, (anyone? please? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif) let me sum up the points I'm trying to make:

1:If we use the WWII model for the War, and we accept that the Romulans = Russia, the Russian state lost an incalculable amount of men and materials in their war, but they strove to keep their losses a secret and present an image of strength and solidarity. Also, the Russian government wasn't exactly stable after wards. Yes, Stalin ruled for years afterwards, but he wasn't exactly a model for "stable leader," now was he?

2: After the war, Russia needed an enemy to keep herself focused. In the wake of the War, shortages and suffering lead to discontent, but the USSR kept together by focusing on the US as "the next enemy." The USSR government changed hands fairly frequently after wards. With the Romulans, they might focus on the UFP or the Klingons. If Martok looses control over the Klingon discontent, and decides to do the same thing, (ie focus on an enemy to keep his people in line) and picks the Romulans, the Star Empire will obviously defend itself. This Kessel (which I'm wondering if it's a Star Wars reference. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif )might not have to attempt a coup-he could be appointed the position!

Then this situation leads to the "Fall of the Roman Empire" parralell-Rome/Romulus invaded by the barbarians, hampered by insane leadership, the downfall is practically assured.

Alright, this has gone on WAY too long. I'm starving, so I'll close here and hunt down a rabid bag of chips or something. And yes, I was a History major, how could you tell? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif



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Is it a good thing if our Narrator is listening to Stabbing Westward while plotting our game?

Whoa, I'm going to have to read that again.

As ti Romulan forces in the War, as per DWS on this site, the Romulans had 7000 ships spread over 25 fleets, 14 of which were Command fleets, the rest were Senatorial and Coalition fleets. The remainder of the Star Navy the rest of the Command fleets and the Preatorian (probably some Sen. and Coal. fleets as well) remained behind to protect the Praetor for his enemies back home. 190,000 Ground Troops went into the war and only a hand full of regiments returned to Romulas.

So, yes the Romulans did get pounded, but not as much as the Feds or the Klingons. Also, a strong protion of the Star Navy was kept out of the fighting just to protect the Praetor. So, it would not be impossable for a coup to take place, but it would take alot of political manuevering.

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In the Praetors Name!