Non-elite Orders?

I've recently gotten around to looking at the elite orders, and something struck me about them. Nearly all of the elite orders have fewer skills than the standard orders.

For example, the Ranger has four less skills than the Warrior: Healing, Inspire, Intimidate, Siegecraft. The Wizard also has four less skills than the Magician: lacking Appraise, Craft, Inquire, Ride, and Weather-sense -- but having Survival which Magician does not. The Archer has six less skills than the Warrior: lacking Healing, Inspire, Ride, Siegecraft, Survival, Track, Unarmed Combat -- but having Games which the Warrior does not (I guess Archers are less serious than Warriors :) ).

Is it supposed to be this way, or will there be more errata for this?

Assuming my understanding of the "purpose" of an elite order is correct, then here is my explanation:

An Elite Order is not meant to replace an Order. Since you can develop Order skills for two Orders at a time, they are meant to supplement an order.

For example, most of the time a player who wants to eventually run an archer will first take a Warrior class. Not always, but usually. When he feels the time is right, he spends his 5 advancement picks to "buy" the Archer Elite Order.

Now not only is he able to advance his Warrior order skills, but now he can also advance the Archer order skills just as easily.

Of course, there will be some overlap of skills. Your Warrior/Archer may want to break his Warrior ties altogether and take up the banner of a Ranger or Noble later in his life. But the skills the Archer and Warrior do share will still be available for advancement as Order skills.

I hope this helps.

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Originally posted by CorpBoy
For example, most of the time a player who wants to eventually run an archer will first take a Warrior class. Not always, but usually. When he feels the time is right, he spends his 5 advancement picks to "buy" the Archer Elite Order. Now not only is he able to advance his Warrior order skills, but now he can also advance the Archer order skills just as easily.

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Well, OK. He spends 5 advancement picks, and then he is able to advance the Games skill in addition to the skills he could previously advance (since Warrior has all other Archer skills and more.) More importantly he now has the option for Archer special abilities instead of just Warrior ones. So there is definitely some benefit.

It's just that intuitively, it seems to me that Ranger ought to have Healing as a skill, at least. More generally, the elite orders should have at least as many skills as standard orders rather than less.

As for how it might come up in play, consider being a Barbarian with a few advancements. You could choose to gain the elite order of Ranger, or you could gain the standard order of Warrior. Warrior looks like a clearly better choice since it gives you four new skills, as well as Warrior special abilities like Swift Strike.

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Originally posted by John Kim
It's just that intuitively, it seems to me that Ranger ought to have Healing as a skill, at least. More generally, the elite orders should have at least as many skills as standard orders rather than less.

As for how it might come up in play, consider being a Barbarian with a few advancements. You could choose to gain the elite order of Ranger, or you could gain the standard order of Warrior. Warrior looks like a clearly better choice since it gives you four new skills, as well as Warrior special abilities like Swift Strike.

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You're still thinking of the Elite Orders as stand-alone. Your character isn't a "Ranger", he's (technically) a "Warrior/Ranger" or a "Barbarian/Ranger" (or whatever).

I find the skill selections of the elite orders to be just fine. Personally, I think more benefit could be derived from taking two basic orders, then graduating into an elite order of your choice. For example, my dwarf Craftsman is working (eventuallY) toward being a Magician. Looking at it stricktly from an Order Skill point of view, the Magician has at least five skills that the Craftsman doesn't (Healing, Inspire, Intimidate, Inquire, Insight), so it's a fairly good fit.

Not that you can´t advance non-order skills, anyway. It´s just a little more expensive.

BTW, my group has a strong tendency to make mistakes while advancing a character sheet. Have any of you run into similar problems ? Perhaps there could be a way to track XP expenditure.

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Originally posted by Captain Novaes
Not that you can´t advance non-order skills, anyway. It´s just a little more expensive.

BTW, my group has a strong tendency to make mistakes while advancing a character sheet. Have any of you run into similar problems ? Perhaps there could be a way to track XP expenditure.

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What kind of mistakes are being seen? Are the players advancing non-order skills at the order skill cost? Personally, I mark my character sheet with a red asterisk next to all my order skills. Makes things a lot easier.

As far as tracking XP goes, my group does two different things depending on player preference. Some of us keep track of our total experience, while others erase all the XP they have when they get an advancement.