Help wanted! Vehicle Combat

Hello,

I need your help guys and gals.

As I have posted elsewhere: http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...&threadid=8093

I'm intending for to insert a classic set piece into one of my next adventures. It's set on Earth and involves the characters partaking in a bit of combat in the streets of San Francisco. The players will inadvertently, whilst on extended shore leave, uncover a Romulan Tal'Shiar cell gone rogue. They're plotting to assassinate the President of the Federation in a rather audacious plan. The result will be a bit of a ruckus in a seedy bar ending in a classic car chase in Star Trek era ground vehicles. I've got a picture in my mind of a cross between Bullitt with the cars you see in Demolition Man (rubbish film but the cars looked the part and lets face it, San Angeles looks very Trek like).

But I digress.

I need help in developing some vehicle combat rules.

I'm thinking of designing cars with a structure stat and using Operate Ground Vehicle skill from Starfleet Ops Manual. That’s easy.

My problem is working out:

1: What damage one car hitting another would do?
2: How would varying speeds of the impact affect the damage done?
3: What would the TNs for different types of maneuvers?
4: What damage would the occupants of the vehicle take when another car hits it?

I have come up with some thoughts based upon the R.Talsorian Interlok (used in their Cyberpunk and Mekton games) system - mainly because it's the only modern system we use (although the vehicle combat rules do suck, they're the only ones we've ever used). May chuck in some ideas from starship combat though.

For example:

Vehicles have a structure rating for concussion damage (being rammed, hitting things etc). When a vehicle takes damage it is applied to the overall structure of the vehicle. When the vehicle loses 10% of it's structure you roll on a system table (Wheels, Engine, Fuel Cell, AI Driver System etc) and mark of a damage to that individual system.

Vehicles have an armor rating for protection against projectile and energy weapon attacks (5 for unarmored, variable for armored). Of course a phaser set on full power could vaporize a car (hmmm, need to think of a rule to prevent my players from doing that one - they wiped out ten Cardassian shock troops by firing a Phaser Rifle at level 16 at the troop carrier they were in - and yes, they got a severe roasting for it but they were being shot at so they were just reprimanded).

Initiative is worked as per normal for combat. The driver/s with the higher initiative/s makes their maneuver/s first. With a critical success the opposing player/s have to declare their intended maneuver first.

Maneuvers are divided into Tiers.

Vehicles have a maneuver speed (in MPH) depending upon vehicle performance and whether the maneuver being attempted is tier one or tier two.

Tier one maneuvers are (feel free to offer suggestions for more basic maneuvers):

Pulling away
Everyday "passive" steering
Braking
Reversing

Tier two maneuvers are (feel free to offer suggestions for more advanced maneuvers):

Handbrake turns
Bootlegger turns
Hard "active" steering
Power slides

If the driver attempts a tier one maneuver under the tier one maneuver speed of the vehicle it is automatically passed if they have the Operate Vehicle (Ground) skill. TN 10 if they don't (this reflects that they have had no training in the use of a ground vehicle - have not been taught maneuvers etc).

If the driver attempts a tier one maneuver over the tier one maneuver speed of the vehicle it's TN 5 if they have the Operate Vehicle (Ground) skill. TN 15 if they don't.

If the driver attempts a tier two maneuver under the tier two speed of the vehicle it is a TN 15 if they have the Operate Vehicle (Ground) skill. TN 20 if they don't.

If the driver attempts a tier two maneuver over the tier two maneuver speed of the vehicle it is a TN 20 if they have the Operate Vehicle (Ground) skill. TN 25 if they don't.

All maneuvers are normally full round actions, however, players may attempt a second maneuvers in the same round at -5 penalty for tier one maneuvers and -10 for additional tier two maneuvers. No more than one additional maneuver may be attempted in one round. So a trained player can do a handbrake turn at TN 20 then do a pull away at TN 15 (10 basic maneuver + 5 for multiple action). Untrained drivers cannot attempt multiple actions.

I was going to through in various other modifiers relating to damage to the vehicle. Say +1 penalty per point of structure lost. Other modifiers for driving at night, in the rain, fog, under fire etc. Also different vehicles have plus/minus modifiers to the driver's skill tests. For example a sports car would get a +5 to all maneuvers but an eighteen wheeler would get a -5 (if not more).

Can anyone help me pad these out a bit and throw some ideas into the pot so we can come up with some feasible vehicle use rules. The above are just some quick thoughts that I came up with off the top of my head so please don't tear them to shreds. If they're rubbish then say so and offer suggestions as to alternatives. Please don't just go "they suck" or other words to that effect (not that any of you would).

Peace

JonA

I've tried to help fill the gap in the Star Trek rpg. It wasn't a problem in d20 or d6 Star Wars rpg's. But for some reason the game designers didn't think that vehicles would come into play for some reason. Anyway Here is what I did for vehicles. I based them on the LOTR rules for structures like castles and such. I also include structures. This is just temporary until the come out with something official or I find something better. If these help well you're welcome. If you think they suck well show something better PLEASE:confused:
Here thet are:




Vehicles vs. Characters: Character scale weapons can sometimes inflict minor damage to vehicles. Every twelve full points of damage the weapons do is equal 1 point of damage to a vehicle. For example Type-1 phasers do 1d6+2 structure points at maximum damage. Type-2, 3, and 4 phasers do 2d6+7 points of damage at maximum power (setting 16). “Damage” represents the damage done to fortifications. Any successful hit by a vehicle weapon on an individual person automatically slays that person unless protected by a vehicle, which is then treated as cover for the character. Then if the pilot or passenger is struck they lose one full wound level per point of damage that gets through to them past the vehicles protection threshold. Structures and vehicles have two main attributes Protection, which represents the “armor” or how much damage its walls or hull can absorb without harm. The second is Structure, which represents its “Health” or how much damage it can withstand, beyond its Protection, before it collapses or is destroyed. The typical Protection/Threshold: 5/1 unless more heavily armored, which then gives them higher protection/threshold ratings similar to starships, however even unarmored vehicles still receive a threshold of one against character scale weapons. This can be modified if the vehicle is evading or if it is stopped. It can also be raised with hull plating, or shields.

Starships vs. Vehicles: Starships generally inflict far more damage to vehicles. For every point of offensive value a starship has on her beam or missile weapons, they will destroy 1 size level of a Structure or a vehicle of that size category. The typical area effect in diameter is equal to the meters in the size level. This is also the crater diameter for a nuclear device planetary surface detonation. However vehicles must inflict significant damage to have any effect on a starship. For every 2d6 points of vehicle damage that weapon have an offensive value of 1.

Vehicle Systems damage: Every 5 points of damage a vehicle suffers it also takes a critical hit. Use the starship system damage tracks. Although vehicles might have different types of systems than starships do.
Sensors: headlights, FLIR, radar, sonar, etc.
Operations: steering, rigging, rudder, ailerons, etc.
Life support: air conditioning/heater, NBC protection, etc.
Propulsion: repulsorlift, propeller/rotor, jet, sail, wheels, tracks, legs, etc.
Weapons: same as starships
Shields: same as starships

Vehicle Maneuvers: Use the Operate vehicle skill in the SOM to round out the other rules needed for maneuvers or other needs. Collisions between vehicles do their size level x 1d6+1 points of vehicle damage for every 10 kph they are traveling.
Aerial & Aerospace vehicles can use the same maneuvers as starships. Planet-bound vehicles also have maneuvers they can use but are different than toughs used by aerial vehicles.

Ground Vehicles (wheeled, tracked, hover, land speeder)
Type Tier TN
Close 1 10
Slide 1 10
Bootlegger turn 2 15
Full stop 1 -
Match speed 2 Protection
Open 1 10
Ramming Speed 2 Protection – size
Watercraft can use some of the same maneuvers as starships except Z-axis (except submarines which can Dive).
Walkers and Mobile Suits (Gundams) can use the same maneuvers as characters use when they move, such as running, climbing jumping etc.

Defensive systems for vehicles
These are pretty much the same as the defenses for starships. They include Hull Plating (Armor), and Shield generators. For most vehicles it’s Hull plating, which is normally mark one or more. This is the Protection minimum is 5. The second number is the threshold that is normally equal to the vehicles size level, minimum is always one. Shields are the same as for ships.

Converting Star Wars d20 vehicles into Coda system.
Hull points are 1/3 the amount in Structure. Damage reduction becomes Protection and Threshold is the vehicles size level.

Having trouble listing the sizes and structure for vehicles email me and I'll email'em back to ya. by the way here is the AOV from Nemesis;

Starfleet AOV
· Body Data:
o Size/Decks: 1/1
o Length/Height/Beam: 5.1/2.1/1.8 meters
o Structure: 5
o Complement: 3
· Operational Data:
o Cargo Units: 300 kg
o Sensor System: Basic (A)
o Operations System: Basic (A)
o Life Support: none
· Propulsion Data:
o Drive System: (Ground/B) 4 wheeled drive powered by two saruim-krellide power cells.
o Speed; 160 km/h.
· Weapon Systems:
o Phaser cannon Type-1 (A)
§ Range: 5/60/120/240/+60
§ Arc: turret rear
§ Damage: 2d6+8
§ Ammo: unlimited
· Defensive Systems: none
o Protection/Threshold: 5/1
· Vehicle Notes:
o Protection from AOV provides half cover +6 to hit.