New System vs. Old system, newbie question!!

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11-22-2003, 02:48 PM
Xguild

New System vs. Old system, newbie question!!

Hi all

I'm a long time RPG player and game runner. I've pretty much played every system under the sun ranging from Rolemaster to White Wolf to D20. I have a steady group that has been playing together for about 12 years.

Rescently I started a new Rolemaster campaign for my players, after a few session we've made a good storyline establisment and the game is going really well. The issue I have is that because I've run so many fantasy games, I'm a little burned out. I have enough material to keep my Rolemaster game going for at least 5 sessions, so I'm thinking about working on creating a Star Trek game campaign for a side game for my players. They liked the idea so now I'm doing some research to find out exactly what is the best system for my group.

I have found a few systems so far that offer Star Trek as a background.

1. Unicorn Games: Star Trek: Next Generation
2. Unicorn Games: Deep Space Nine
3. GURPS conversion "Prime Directive"
4. Deciphers new Star Trek (Encompases all the era's)

I have a couple of questions for the veterans, if you guys don't mind.

Q: First and foremost what is the difference between the two Unicorn games if any and what is the difference between Deciphers game to the Unicorn game

Q: Which system is more realistic? My group prefers the realism to ease of play (This is why we play GURPS and Rolemaster)

Q: What other sites besides this one offers good source material, like ship schematics and that type of stuff.

Q: Where can I can modules for a Star Trek: Next Generation era. I'm just looking for mission type adventures that I could run on any given day.
11-22-2003, 05:26 PM
Jorik

It is amazing!
I'm in exactly the same situation you're in!
I too have been GMing the same group for ~12 years (actually, more like 15) and have burnt out on fantasy -- playing Rolemaster for the last few years.

Ok, maybe not exactly in the same situation, but close enough.

I'm just starting out with Star Trek (I'm using Decipher's edition which I LOVE! -- Good balance between realistic and playablity) so I won't be able to answer most of your question.
However, regarding your 3rd Q., this site has a lot of material and lots of nice ship plans, deck drawings, and many other visual aids that can help a Star Trek game.
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/
Check out the starship interiors from the galleries -- they're beautiful.

Roy.
11-22-2003, 05:54 PM
Lonoto

Regarding realism over ease of play, take the Unicorn games. I don't think there is very much difference between the two books except for some reference material for the series.

The reason I say LUG over CODA is because with LUG you have Spacedock, which is the most realistic (Albeit complex) starship creation and combat system in existence that I know of. You can ask around for somebody who has it, I don't have it on the comp I am on at the moment.

Anyways, just thought I'd try to help a little :D
11-24-2003, 04:30 AM
Assassin

The Difference between the two Unicorn Game Products is only the difference in setting.
We never played the Decipher Games.

For adventures ypu can also search in the Forums, there is a pinned thread with hundreds of adventure seed.
There should be enough to fill your mind until next year, or even next decade....

I also can recommend spacedock. It's complex but very well done.
From the same team, maybe even better, is the Dominion War sourcebook.

You can find those (and much more) under: Memory Icon

ANother useful site with dozens of graphics and interior plans:
Spike's Star Trek Site
11-24-2003, 08:26 AM
D.S.McBride

My group - again, a bunch of long-timers, with anywhere from fifteen to twenty years of gaming together between us - has elected to stick with LUGTrek. The realism aspect that's been mentioned was at least one of the reasons we decided to stay with Icon; we saw no reason why somebody with a background in one subject - say, Psychology - would have only a shade less ability in any other number of medical specialities.

Other reasons - again, for us - Icon has it over Coda: A better thought-out and structured hand-to-hand system (a game without scraps is a game without sunshine), and probably most importantly, more flexibility in character creation (we've added a number of "pick-up" skill points to round out character background, with no loss in game balance), and no restrictions in terms of "professions" and "advancements" for what is or is not a "professional" skill.

What Coda does have, as Don mentioned in one of his later editorials, is more "crunchy bits"; rewards the characters can earn through experience, rather than just raising skill levels, although we are slowly - slowly - adapting the Professional Abilities into a format similar to the advanced moves in Icon's hand-to-hand system. As a group, we also found Decipher's system for Starfleet character promotion a bit more accessible, and have replaced Icon's Department Head and Promotion Advantages with Decipher's Command and Promotion Edges - not as Experience Point intensive and allowing the players to move ahead and still have something left over to improve that all-important Science or Engineering skill...or their hand-to-hand abilities (picking up a pattern here? :) ).

The last point, although this may end up being resolved when Decipher starts releasing the Series books - is that the skills sets for Decipher characters, especially Starfleet types, was too generic; there's really nothing differentiating a TOS Helm officer from a TNG Flight Officer, let alone the difference from culture to culture. While a dedicated Narrator and Crew could undoubtedly modify the character creation system to better reflect individual times and/or cultures, we've elected to stick with what works - for us, anyway. :)
11-24-2003, 04:31 PM
Xguild

Thanks for all the great replies

Thanks for all the great replies, this is a great forum.

I was able to get my hands on the Unicorn version of Star Trek: The Next Generation. I read it already and I have to admit that the game appears to be in pretty good shape.

I can see that there are a few things missing that I would personaly like to see, like for example the ability to be a Klingon. But other then that the game appears to have what it would take to create a cool roleplaying experiance in the Star Wars Universe.

I'll let you guys know how it goes... We should have our first session in a few weeks.

Now can anyone recomend a good 1st adventure??
11-24-2003, 06:30 PM
Doug Burke

This is really more appropriate to the General RP forum, so here it goes... :)
11-25-2003, 05:06 AM
Tobian

Xguild. you may also want to pick up the DS9 core rulebook by LUG, as it has additional templates etc; including klingons.

You might want to take a look at the decipher game too. I personally prefer it, but in some ways it's because it's simpler (though not simplistic)

Technically speaking Spacedock was designed for LUG's system, but it would probably still also be fairly easily modified to work with Decipher, as the Starship combat section of the game is really just another module.
11-26-2003, 11:52 PM
Grimace

Actually, Xguild if you want some good, detailed information on Klingons, you might have to do some digging. If you can find the old FASA Star Trek Klingon book, it had excellent background and details on Klingons. You would, of course, have to use appropriate conversions to the system you're using, but the information if very useful.
12-07-2003, 02:11 PM
VenKel

From playing the ICON and running a CODA game(Just after DS9 era)
I have to say that on complexity the CODA system is more complex becuase of the each of the individual componets of the game. you have about 5 ways to tras port some one with all the diffrent effects. the combat system can be more deadlyer then chartmast.. rolemaster ( cant beleve it just have the party's ship be borded by rogue Klingons with Distupters set on kill). Also with the starfleet ops manual you get all the cool flying, double fist, tackeling moves for SF personal ( please let the klingon book have alot of thes manuvers).

In fact the one thing I dont like about the CODA system that the ICON was better at was the Cadet Cruises ( CODA has an option but id like to see some set packages wich were missing from the SFOM).

On the good side for CODA all you really need to bring in dice is 2d6s, in the ICON it depended on your attribute Die

CODA a set attribute Modifire added to skill and the 2d6
ICON A variable Attribute Dice type of xd6 added to skill (and the drama dice).

CODA Space combat you will need cards if you dont fugue it
(Hint hint DCR needs to make some of these)
never really ran into true space combat in ICON ( I was playing Tatical and only shot at probes)

But the best system is going to be the one with the best GM so have fun.
12-10-2003, 01:17 AM
knarf

Re: New System vs. Old system, newbie question!!

Quote:

Originally posted by Xguild
Hi all

I'm a long time RPG player and game runner. I've pretty much played every system under the sun ranging from Rolemaster to White Wolf to D20. I have a steady group that has been playing together for about 12 years.

Rescently I started a new Rolemaster campaign for my players, after a few session we've made a good storyline establisment and the game is going really well. The issue I have is that because I've run so many fantasy games, I'm a little burned out. I have enough material to keep my Rolemaster game going for at least 5 sessions, so I'm thinking about working on creating a Star Trek game campaign for a side game for my players. They liked the idea so now I'm doing some research to find out exactly what is the best system for my group.

I have found a few systems so far that offer Star Trek as a background.

1. Unicorn Games: Star Trek: Next Generation
2. Unicorn Games: Deep Space Nine
3. GURPS conversion "Prime Directive"
4. Deciphers new Star Trek (Encompases all the era's)

I have a couple of questions for the veterans, if you guys don't mind.

Q: First and foremost what is the difference between the two Unicorn games if any and what is the difference between Deciphers game to the Unicorn game

The LUG games mainly had shifts in focus (The DS9 book had more options for cilivians and non-Fed members, TNG was more pure Starfleet and strange new worlds and stuff)

Quote:

Q: Which system is more realistic? My group prefers the realism to ease of play (This is why we play GURPS and Rolemaster)

The GURPS system does it's darnedest to be as realistic as possible. My experience with ICON or Coda is more limited, but did not reveal major holes. Except how ICON handled stun damage. You passed out from stun damage at a different point than you passed out from any other source of damage. Realistic maybe, but not as intuitive as possible. Both GURPS Prime Directive and Coda now have stun settings on phasers simply stun you.

Quote:

Q: What other sites besides this one offers good source material, like ship schematics and that type of stuff.

The best starship deckplans I've seen appeared in GURPS Prime Directive and it's supplements. I don't know where material like that is available on the web.

Quote:

Q: Where can I can modules for a Star Trek: Next Generation era. I'm just looking for mission type adventures that I could run on any given day.

If your looking for TNG era stuff, then GURPS Prime Directive is straight out. It's intended to be very TOS in feel and look. Most other material you'll find these days is very TNG oriented, so what you're looking for shouldn't be too hard to find.

Good hunting,
Doug