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I mean aren't there other departments that could benifit from such a rpogram
Emergency Engineering Hologram - Can eject the warpcore even when engineering is flooded?
Emergency Conn Hologram - Need a pilot to fly that insane shuttle mission? Did all the guys and dolls in red just go up on the bridge? Well activate the ECH. :)
These are just the two that came to me.
Anyone else?
Why not just have a whole Holo crew? I mean they wouldn't have to eat, very little down time, and less nagging overall. This is why I despise the EMH, tool of the devil...:D
Though, if you really wanted to have a holocrewmen, how about holo redshirts? Send them down to a planet so they can get killed. Then upload their program again when a new one is needed. Cuts down on the red shirt deaths.
Of course if you build to many of them and replaced to much of the crew they'd feel superior to you, consider themselves mistreated by their biological counterparts and portray you as fascists!:mad:
Maybe its because I've played too many engineers, I'd hate to see an EEH. Nagging engineers about their likes and dislikes...of course I would be persuaded to have one is it had the same dashing features as my character.:D
Well for one you would need to have mobile emitters.
Aslo they did a holocrew on Red Dwarf and they was cool :)
But I agree, holo tech is insane in Star Trek, they make new life every other week don't they?
Emergency computer holograms: handy when hacking past automated defense grids, or sabotaging computer systems in areas where biosigns are regularly monitored (though I can't think of a good application off hand)
How about they beam down a portable photonic generator like on VOY with the run-away holoprograms? To me holography has run amock during the VOY tenure as current Trek. Damn, I think they even used it to "create" a pair of false lungs for Neelix when the Vidiians stole his lungs.
You could say place holo-emitters throughout the ship, whenever a crewmen is injured, forcefields prevent him from moving more than a micron then create "holo-sutures" until proper help can arrive to assist him. A very high reduction in Panel death explosions if you ask me.
The only place I would want one is in the mess hall for Dabo girls which show you to your table!:D ...hmmmm......dabo.....girls.......
If I'm not mistaken there already is an ECH...Emergency Command Hologram. Very amusing ep.Quote:
Originally posted by Perrryyy
Emergency computer holograms: handy when hacking past automated defense grids, or sabotaging computer systems in areas where biosigns are regularly monitored (though I can't think of a good application off hand)
I'd forgotten about that. You're right. Guess we'd have to call it an EPH (Emergency Programming Hologram)?Quote:
Originally posted by Phantom
If I'm not mistaken there already is an ECH...Emergency Command Hologram. Very amusing ep.
Along time I did a section on 'Holotech' including ESH's (Emergency Security Holograms). The best about these were: the 'living' shield ability (phasers don't really effect 'holo's), the surprise (if fourteen 'jaundices' show up outta thin air, bad guys goin' down...even if they're a Gorn:))
'nother thing though: why limit to 'single' function? Voy's EMH could have merged it's ECH programming/protocols/perimeters with the existing ones; anytime a conflict came out, the EH system could/would have weighed the situation, then decided based decision on/from 'the best side' (EMH, ECH, or both).
Just a few thoughts, I'm off to design an EMMH (Emergency Marine Medical Hologram...in the words of Bill Cosby, "This is called 'fun'.":D)
About two years ago, the conn officer was replaced by a holographic command module (HCM) as an experiment on my old PC ship. Suffice to say it worked for about two weeks before it went postal and tried to kill the captain after a programming glitch identified him as a hostile. Well after the managed to shut off the programme, the Captain had the software downloaded and then erased from the computer. Since then the PCs have not trusted ANY holographic crew including the EMH.
IMHO holographic crew are a okay plot device but shouldn't replace PCs permanently (I think Steve made that point in Spacedock that the EMH on Voyager may well be unique) even though they have much higher skills in their area of specialty than most PCs.
I see any Holo crewmen as a threat to the crew. If Starfleet Command realizes they don't really need all these people then what they do? Have entire holo crews or take it one step farther, no crews instead fully automated ships.
Now this brings up a great plot line, you could have an experimental holocrewmen on the PC's ship. He's a "universal module" meaning he can adapt to any job at hand by downloading the required information directly from the LCARS. He keeps telling the crew what to do, how to do it and when to do it.
The PC's should realize that he is well just perfect and could replace them.(But won't) A calamity occurs on the ship which strikes down the ship and they must work with this "U.E.H.", knowing full well that if he saves the day, their jobs and those of others may go up in a puff of smoke.
Personnally, if I were a Captain I'd demand that all holocrewmen be shut off and if they go nuts on me; completely decompiled.
I actually think what Guinan said in "the Measure of a Man" in regards to Data... disposable people, little more than slaves - Post-Voyager, I can't see Starfleet employing holographic "lifeforms" in a callous or common manner...
Certainly the Doctor would speak up. A lot.
The Doc
Plus, you've got the M-5 incident, where the AI took control of the E and blew the heck out of a bunch of ships.
And with Voyager's experience with the "Hologram rebellion", I can't see holographic crew.
Although, I can see a few Holographic Crew, but they'd all be in minor positions. You'd have to really screen the programming well, and with the massive failure rate of "Holotechnology" (the Holodeck malfunctions again?!) I just can't see it happening on a wide scale.
An EMH, maybe an EEH, but I wouldn't let Tactical or Command come any where near a hologram.
Although, the idea I had about a Holographic Starship kinda lends itself to the idea of a Holographic Auxilary Crew...
Alex
Oh I love that idea :)Quote:
Originally posted by ghosty
About two years ago, the conn officer was replaced by a holographic command module (HCM) as an experiment on my old PC ship. Suffice to say it worked for about two weeks before it went postal and tried to kill the captain after a programming glitch identified him as a hostile. Well after the managed to shut off the programme, the Captain had the software downloaded and then erased from the computer. Since then the PCs have not trusted ANY holographic crew including the EMH.
IMHO holographic crew are a okay plot device but shouldn't replace PCs permanently (I think Steve made that point in Spacedock that the EMH on Voyager may well be unique) even though they have much higher skills in their area of specialty than most PCs.
I will definately have to steal it :)
But maybe a whole host of holographic characters will be needed. All trying to steal the ship and head for the holographic Nirvana that Janeway reported on from the Delta Quadrant :)
Okay so if I add this to the above I think I have an excellent adventure in mind. Oh yeah boys!Quote:
Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos
I see any Holo crewmen as a threat to the crew. If Starfleet Command realizes they don't really need all these people then what they do? Have entire holo crews or take it one step farther, no crews instead fully automated ships.
Now this brings up a great plot line, you could have an experimental holocrewmen on the PC's ship. He's a "universal module" meaning he can adapt to any job at hand by downloading the required information directly from the LCARS. He keeps telling the crew what to do, how to do it and when to do it.
The PC's should realize that he is well just perfect and could replace them.(But won't) A calamity occurs on the ship which strikes down the ship and they must work with this "U.E.H.", knowing full well that if he saves the day, their jobs and those of others may go up in a puff of smoke.
Personnally, if I were a Captain I'd demand that all holocrewmen be shut off and if they go nuts on me; completely decompiled.
Dang this one should be an adventure thread...infact :)
We need to come up with a way to disrupt holographic "life." Something that makes the use of ExH (add whatever letter you like in place of "x") impossible. (It's intended use would be to deny the use of holographic systems by threat forces, but would also prove usefull against rogue friendly holographic systems.
What have been shown to disrupt or prevent holographic systems on the shows?
(Anything that will kill a ExH in my opinion should be standard aboard a starship. . .can't stand those damn EMH things!)
What about the idea of using a counter photonic frequency that disrupts the holomatrix?
How about trying to access a ships computer to just delete the rogue holocrewmen? I like the idea of a counter photonic wave although would a deflector shields protect?
For personnel side equipment we could have a field disruptor which disrupts the fields which hold the holocrewmen together.
A hostile holocrewmen could do alot of damage to another biological being as in VOY when a holoprogram reached in and grapped Torres' heart. You could be standing on the other side of a door thinking your safe when BLAM! your hit in the head by a fist through the wall.
I believe that taking out the holoemitters throughout the ship should be of primordial importance, wearing EVA suits(no oxygen on their ships since they don't need it)-these suits should also protect against photonic material.
I like this! You can put it in an atmosphere or setting where humans would be at a disadvantage... Enter the Emergency Programming Hologram! (See I knew we'd find a way to get that in!)Quote:
Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos
How about trying to access a ships computer to just delete the rogue holocrewmen? I like the idea of a counter photonic wave although would a deflector shields protect?
For personnel side equipment we could have a field disruptor which disrupts the fields which hold the holocrewmen together.
A hostile holocrewmen could do alot of damage to another biological being as in VOY when a holoprogram reached in and grapped Torres' heart. You could be standing on the other side of a door thinking your safe when BLAM! your hit in the head by a fist through the wall.
I believe that taking out the holoemitters throughout the ship should be of primordial importance, wearing EVA suits(no oxygen on their ships since they don't need it)-these suits should also protect against photonic material.
I don’t think Starfleet would ever get to the stage where everybody is replaced by Holos.
First; remember the ‘E’ in all Holos stands for ‘Emergency’, which means: non-permanent, temporary, only until the danger has passed. Voy’s EMH was an extreme circumstance: trapped 75yrs away from the nearest replacement medical staff, and the only fully qualified surgical technician on the ship (fortunate for them huh :)). Reality says; even if the EMH created a ECH program, he would still be lower rank than the crew (even Harry Kim), and therefor only ‘Command’ in a advisory capacity.
Secondly; after Starfleet reviews Voy’s logs, do really think they’d repeat the Voy fiasco (and before someone says “which one”, let stick to ‘Holotech’ for the subject :D). No, I think that Starfleet won’t be interested in making an entire ‘Holocrew’ or even an entire ‘Holoship’. I also think it would take centuries and milleniums for a ‘Holo’ to be allowed advance to Captaincy or higher (look at how Data’s career’s been going…if wasn’t for me making him an Admiral in my campaign, he’d still be walking around in yellow…’course my game set in the 25th Cent., so…)
Hmmm…do think ‘Holos’ could spark a debate like eugenics did…or worse; another war? Where would androids, bynars, and others-like stand?
As for stopping 'rouges', what was it was mentioned in "Elementry my dear Data", some kinda' particle (which they kyboshed 'cause it woulda' hurt Pulaski...dammmmb, fire, fire now...er, sorry rant for 'nother topic :D)
Of course, Voyager's Doctor would be opposed to an all-holographic crew - he'd be out of a job...
Incidentally, I admit I wasn't paying attention, but what was all that business about holographic miners in the Doctor's novel episode? It made no sense to me!
After the EMH Mark Ones were tested - and found lacking - their matrixes were reprogrammed to make them labour workers in mines and the like, where they use holoemitters to let them do their work. ouch. Hence Lewis Zimmerman's disgust with the Doctor when he downloaded himself to the Alpha Quadrant to help him out.Quote:
Originally posted by Imagus
Of course, Voyager's Doctor would be opposed to an all-holographic crew - he'd be out of a job...
Incidentally, I admit I wasn't paying attention, but what was all that business about holographic miners in the Doctor's novel episode? It made no sense to me!
The Doc
I had a horrible feeling it was something like that.Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Barratt
After the EMH Mark Ones were tested - and found lacking - their matrixes were reprogrammed to make them labour workers in mines and the like, where they use holoemitters to let them do their work. ouch. Hence Lewis Zimmerman's disgust with the Doctor when he downloaded himself to the Alpha Quadrant to help him out.
[RANT mode on]
That's the kind of sloppy thinking I really hate on the part of the Voyager writers ...
If you're going to reprogram them, why not upgrade them to the EMH 2 standard and use them for their original purpose?
Why not just recycle their storage space?
Why do you need something like an EMH at all? If you have emitters, you have a computer - ordinary holonovel character-level holograms would do. And they get you out of the slavery accusations...
[RANT mode off]
Sorry, sometimes you just feel the need... :D
I looked at that episode and while looking at it I realized that it didn't seem as if they were working very hard the ex-EMH mark I. They just kinda did nothing there, must'ave been unionized or something of the sort.
Their was a thread once on the rights of holographic "people", I don't remember how it ended, but I fervently opposed any admition of rights to sentience of any holographic crewman.
To me any accusations of slavery are totally useless, we create them, they serve us. We have children they do what the grown-ups tell them to do until they can take decisions for themselves, right?(We don't enslave our children)
Its true though that Starfleet considers them only as extras and their use is only for emergencies but what would happen if they managed to create a long term hologram which would be able to function for a considerable amount of time? This could lead to a considerably reduced medical staff. And alot of angry doctors out there.
This is why I despise any holographic crew, its a piece of technology just like any other; if a replicator were to start demanding better treatment I'd have to bash it until it stopped talking. So once it starts to replace the crew, that's were I would draw the line.
One Idea I saw for an EEH involved mounting the holomatrix in a self contained mobile tower (so it could function independent of ship's power and be moved where needed). Basically, it could be deployed where needed to conduct repairs in areas where the crew cannot get access to: high radiation areas, for example. Also, the hologram's size can be varied when necessary: the hologram can be shrunk down to work in confined spaces.
To me, this should illusrate the way I see holograms; like the ship, they should be instruments of the crew, NOT replacements.
Mobile tower eh?
Independant power supply eh?
EX-TER-MIN-NATE!
EX-TER-MIN-NATE!
EX-TER-MIN-NATE!
Sorry, just had a thought how wrong that could go ;)
Mobile towers-shrink crewmen?
*Shivers at the thought of midget holocrewmen*:D
That would actually make them useful if they could be deployed say; to fix the outer hull or when a warp core leak occurs and you can't dump the core.
Ugh...holographic crewpeople.
Meesa hates that!
My campaign isn't up to the VOY timeline yet (Voyager itself has only just disappeared), but when it gets there, if it gets there, that "EMHs now working the mines" simply won't be happening.
IMC, EMH Mk1s are around in newer ships (can't be retrofitted to older ships due to the need for bioneural computers to work), but that's as far as they go.
Oh, and they don't switch on sentient, either. VOY's The Doctor only got that way by being left switched on for a couple of years at a time, IIRC.
So there won't be any debate about sentient rights ala The Measure of a Man; Data was "born" sentient. He didn't just accidentally get that way. Holograms are, as someone pointed out, tools.
Personally, I hate the holotechnology stuff in Trek - they should have left it at borderline prototypical holodecks (that malfunction waaaay too often) rather than making it some kind of magical cureall.
Holographic lungs indeed!! :(
Rant over! :)
OK let face it, the way Starfleet is approaching holotech seems completely dumb. Wouldn't a more practical approach be to create holotools and holodrones controlled by crew to, for example, help conduct repairs in areas otherwise inaccessible. For doctors, instead of a clumsy EMH, why not holodisplays bringing up the relavant info for performing surgery and creating holoaids for the doc where needed? I'm sure we can think of more creative uses for holotech than humanoid holobots with surly demeanors...:D
Your idea pre-supposes that there will be a crewman to use the holotools. The EMH was designed to temporarily replace medical personnel who have been killed or wounded or to lead a hand in a mass casualty situation.Quote:
Originally posted by Highway Hoss
OK let face it, the way Starfleet is approaching holotech seems completely dumb. Wouldn't a more practical approach be to create holotools and holodrones controlled by crew to, for example, help conduct repairs in areas otherwise inaccessible. For doctors, instead of a clumsy EMH, why not holodisplays bringing up the relavant info for performing surgery and creating holoaids for the doc where needed? I'm sure we can think of more creative uses for holotech than humanoid holobots with surly demeanors...:D
I think the entire holocrew idea to be insane the EMH is a truely bizare idea.
But it is canon and I try to work within the confines of canon :)
The holotools is a neat idea, but then my main question is, how did they craete solid light holograms? Didn't the first round of EMH have no ability to grab real world things?
Our ship had one once. Used the German soilder from Indiana Jones as the model/actor. Of course, his name was Otto.
GROANER! :pQuote:
Originally posted by Sawyer
Our ship had one once. Used the German soilder from Indiana Jones as the model/actor. Of course, his name was Otto.
I think I read once that the radiation which tends to present in the engineering section, especially during times of crisis, prevents the creation of stable holographic energy fields. So your EEH would boldly jump through the plasma fire, ignore the surrounding Jem Hadar and lose cohesion when standing at the control panel in front of the warp core.Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Zymmer
I mean aren't there other departments that could benifit from such a rpogram
Emergency Engineering Hologram - Can eject the warpcore even when engineering is flooded?
Jonathan Archer said in "Breaking the Ice" that they had been send out there to explore the galaxy and not automated probes.
And that´s one of the major Star Trek themes. I mean all the nonhuman crewmembers like Data, Seven and the Doctor have a common goal: becoming human, or at least coming as close to it as possible.
Hey guys - I'm back! (Silly me, forgot to bookmark the direct address and no-one replied to any of my subscribed posts till now...)
As I've said elsewhere, I don't see Starfleet going for wide uses of holotech aboard ships for the reasons some of you have proposed (replacing organics, limited adaptability to novel situations, etc). I did have a holo-Ensign in one of my campaigns, but he'd been designed to be sentient from the beginning, and had to attend the Academy before they'd let him in (he also had one hell of a time persuading the Admission's Board - very "Measure of a Man").
But this thread brings up another point - is Starfleet planning to use Exocomps on starships as emergency engineers? Makes more sense than an EEH (after all, if the power supply's damaged, how are you going to activate it?). Visions of R2-D2 fill my head...
Weren't the exocomps considered sentient? And didn't they leave afterwards?
I don't see why Starfleet would need any mechanical or holographic technology to operate the ship when a humanoid could do the same. It all started with the EMH, one hologram who could outperform an entire ships medical staff in sheer knowledge. While lacking in intuition and bedside manners it could make it up in efficiency and speed. Now what is the point of having a medical staff on call 24/7?
I say toss 'em all out the airlock, decompile the holograms and Merry Christmas to all the officers!:D
I think the exocomps weren't tested for sentience (yet) because before Data they didn't have an advocate to defend their sentience (or lack thereof).Quote:
Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos
Weren't the exocomps considered sentient? And didn't they leave afterwards?
I don't see why Starfleet would need any mechanical or holographic technology to operate the ship when a humanoid could do the same. It all started with the EMH, one hologram who could outperform an entire ships medical staff in sheer knowledge. While lacking in intuition and bedside manners it could make it up in efficiency and speed. Now what is the point of having a medical staff on call 24/7?
I say toss 'em all out the airlock, decompile the holograms and Merry Christmas to all the officers!:D
IIRC, we don't know whether they left after that episode or not, but certainly they would have been given a choice, to stay, or leave.
As to the question of having an around-the-clock medical staff, I always assumed it was a matter of feasibility. Holograms (in theory), don't "burn out" or need rest or diversion like humans do. They as a rule don't fall in love with their patients either, but The Doctor violated that one with Denara Pel.
It could also be that a hologram requires more energy to power than needed to sustain a living being.
I recall an episode of DS9 where Quark, facing a strike in his bar, had to rely on holographic bartenders (not very liable BTW). Since this was only a temporary solution, we have to deduce that this costed him more than paying living employees (I doubt any Ferengi would hesitate much between two solutions with one of them being cheaper than the other).
On one of my ships I have an Emergency Holographic Parrot and an Emergency Holographic Mariachi Band. You never know when you might need them!!
I could never figure out why the EMH had to use a medical tricorder and other tools. Surely the sickbay has better equipment built in, and he could just access it through his link to the computer system?Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Zymmer
The holotools is a neat idea, but then my main question is, how did they craete solid light holograms? Didn't the first round of EMH have no ability to grab real world things?
Ok, it might have looked weird. :D
Ensign Kim is wheeled in. The Doctor comments without looking up from his chessboard, "Ah, Ensign Kim, I see you've fractured your left tibia in three places..."
With solid light holograms he really doesn't even need to open a patient up for majory surgery - just create the holograms inside the patient. Major prospects for lost implements though... ;)
I have been thinking about using ship (either an existing class e.g a modiifed Intrepid or a new Ship) in a future campaign set after the Dominion War which (I may run under the existing Lug Icon Rules or the new Decipher Rules), in which due to lack of sufficiently qualified crew and due to advances in technology, it has been fitted with both an Holographic AI System and carries a large number of sentient and semi-sentinent Robots. (Alright, I admit I am basing the idea on 'Romy from Andromeda, but I will use a good story idea in any of my adventures if I can).
Any comments on the concepts please and has anyone got any ideas on how many SCU's it would cost to install in a Spacedock Ship.