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The date was chosen for its impact, it is 23 (1978 I think) years ago today that the Camp David Accords were signed. Though the 911 analogy is interesting to.Quote:
Originally posted by Sevekk:
As many newscasters have mentioned, please note todays date. 9-11-01.
911
the Emergancy phone number in most of the US, I think that even the date was chosen for its impact.
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In the Praetors Name!
Fools !
Their attack was futile and inhuman, but violance will lead to even more pain.
You make me sick, american...
Clinton was on the right way, but now with Bush and his policy, you're going into war.
Think well before acting, cause youll risk your little empire.
You bombard civilian in irak. You bombard a lot of peaple in the middle-orient. So there it is ! War...
Quote:
Originally posted by Angry_Cartman:
Well, at least someone else here shares my opinion that Israeli involvement COULD (notice the use of the condidtional here) be plausible.
And why, I'm asking again, is it such a ludicrous idea? If you think that a few thousand US lives is worth anything to those scheming bastards at the Mossad then think again. They were feeling the heat rise like never before. Remember, the cold war is over, no more bad commies that supported Syria and Egypt, forcing the US in turn to support Israel; Now many Westerners are increasingly questionning US' support of Israel. Succinctly put, their support base is being eroded.
Personnally I don't understand why we support those spoiled crybabies. Guilt over the Holocaust? Screw that. We have nothing to do with that. Basically, why should innocent North Americans pay for Israel's pig-headedness? It's like you taking the s*** every time you try to bail out your no-good friend who is a bum in spite of compassion. They don't want to compromise? Fine, I'd leave them to their own devices.
Well in any case, as I'm telling the folks around me... I'd really hate being an Arab-American right now...
On another note, I'm afraid too that this is the beginning of something very ugly... I've been browsing around and there's lots of Americans screaming for revenge... even those we normally consider to be "liberal sissies"; I really think whoever did this just kicked the wasps'nest, and did not expect such outrage. Usually I would think that the US public at large would be angry for a while than slowly forget and return to their usual complaiscancy (sp?) but I have a feeling that this time it won't be the case.
Yes, these will be the wars of the future. Democratic nations will have 2 choices if they want to survive: Either dump tons of money and ressources into poorer countries to alleviate any resentment towards Western nations, as well as giving in to most if not all of those nations' demands, or fight a total war, and turn those countries into Western colonies again. And if they prove to be too hard to pacify... well then wipe them out.
I favor the second option.
[This message has been edited by Angry_Cartman (edited 09-11-2001).]
WHAT THE HELL!!!!! The Mossad are no different then any other intelligence agency (CIA, MI6, etc.) TO all those that think the Mossad is responsible...seek help.
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In the Praetors Name!
My god this is terrible day for humanity. Such cowardly and senseless attacks are a disgrace to all mankind. And to what end? Nothing. I'm no great political or millitary mind and even I know, that no matter how well planned, no matter how horrific an attack is launched by terrorists on the United States, they will not change the course they've set for themselves. And nor should they. The only thing that this attack has forced the American government to do is to strike back. I just pray the exemplary reserve and calm displayed by American officials will hold and if a country is found to be at fault not just a group of unaffiliated terrorists, that their counter attack will not add more innocent lives to those which have already been lost.
As for those directly responsible, I hope they are found and made to pay for this, outrage. Though really not even their blood can truely repay the thousands of lives lost today.
As a Canadian I offer my thoughts and prayers to our American brothers and sisters and hope they can heal these wounds inflicted upon their land and their psyche, know the world is with you.
It is a sad, sad day ... this Semptember 11, 2001. And I am reminded recently of the haunting words uttered by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1941:
I undertand that our emotions are running high, as well as fear and our anger. Cooler heads must prevail. We must not blame all for the action of a few. There are those in the Muslim and Arab community that are appalled by this attack, as much as the Japanese living in the United States are appalled by the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Empire of Japan back in 1941. And you knew how much they are loyal to the US when the Japanese-Americans enlisted into the US Army and have become the most highly decorated combat unit, 100th Battalion 442nd Regiment (even though the reason for enslisting is to escape the US government-ordered internment camps).Quote:
A date which will live in infamy.
We will find out who is responsible and we make sure that we have the evidence before we strike. Right now, I'll send my prayers and aloha to everyone, to the deceased and survivors, New York and beyond who witness it firsthand or on TV.
And these are not random thoughts, but my thoughts for the past 11 hours ... since I woke up at 5 a.m. Hawaiian Standard Time and switched my TV ... on this sad, sad day. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif
[This message has been edited by REG (edited 09-11-2001).]
And you make me ill... you make me ashamed of being Canadian.Quote:
Fools !
Their attack was futile and inhuman, but violance will lead to even more pain.
You make me sick, american...
Thousands of people died. The Americans have every right to call for blood. If this happeened in Montreal or Toronto, I would be leading the march to frag whoever was responsible.
Bush or Clinton its all the same - Billy boy would have done no different. Terrorists need to know that the free world can and will defend itself.
I want to see a strike against those responsible. I want it decisive. I want it flashy. I want it big....very big. I want it frightening in its intensity. A final message to all those who think the West is a handy target for all those crackpots of the world.
I would caution everyone during these difficult times, while emotions are running high, to consider their words and sentiments carefully. Rash posts without such consideration may anger others or leave a lasting impression not easily dissuaded at a later date.
To that end, please review any posts carefully prior to submitting them and should you be caught in the emotions of the moment I would suggest you refrain from participating until you have had time to ‘cool off.’
In the end we are all brought together by a common interest and share this community; a community that should be bound together in support and concern, not fragmented by reckless speculation and ill-thought words.
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_don.gif
[This message has been edited by Don (edited 09-11-2001).]
Yeah Don, you are right.
We should invite our enemies over for tea and crumpets and talk about their feelings inside, why are they so violent and such and then all hug one another so everyting will be all right...
Oh and about those "wild theories", you may want to check out Steve Ostrovsky's books "By Way of Deception" and "The Other Side of Deception". Steve Ostrovsky is an ex-Mossad agent.
As for fellow Canadian Hentar... ferme ta gueule petite merde, si je t'avais devant moi je te foutrerais mon poing sur ta tronche de tapette...
[This message has been edited by Angry_Cartman (edited 09-11-2001).]
Don, one of my players just heard me read your post over the phone.
In her words your response was "classy" and "mature".
I respect what you said and share your sentinment. You have not told us what you think about the incident, but instead what you feel about the comments made here. Bravo.
She also wonders why everyone who plays a game about a Federation that promotes respect and harmony amoungst a diversity of races and always seeks peaceful solutions would be so intolerant of others opinions and thoughts.
Sigh...I fear the Federation is a long way away for us still...
One very sad Canadian...
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Captain Zymmer
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Visit Star Trek:Lexington at;
http://www.usslexington.net
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And you make me proud of being french.
"When a man point is finger at the moon, only a fool will look at the finger"
A little chinese wisdom should help you calm down.
I think violence will not arrange nothing, and those who call for a strike are as inhuman as the terrorist themself. Remember that they do not attack for nothing, while i do not agree on what theyve done (obviously), i just want to point out the vicious circle. American attack musulman, musulman attack american ambassady, American seek revenge, musulman seek revenge, ad infinitum...
The masses want blood
Well, it'll have blood
Ignorance will shed blood again
Cartman, thank you for being an excellent example of proving my point.Quote:
Originally posted by Angry_Cartman:
Yeah Don, you are right.
We should invite our enemies over for tea and crumpets and talk about their feelings inside, why are they so violent and such and then all hug one another so everyting will be all right...
I don’t intend to tell people how to feel or react to the situation, I am merely asking for people to carefully consider their actions (and posts) prior to making them.
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_don.gif
Oh, there's an end to it all right, and end a lot of folks may be seeing all too soon, if they don't wise up REALLY fast.
There's an old quote: "The Romans make a desert, and they call it peace." We're the Romans now, bucko.
Attacking US civilians on US soil in this manner is probably the STUPIDEST thing a body could do. When this country goes off, we go PSYCHOTIC.
Didn't anybody learn anything from Pearl Harbor? After Pearl, the people of the U.S were ready and willing to wipe the Japanese nation off the surface of the planet! And anyone who got in the way of that goal, as well. We might very well have done so, had they not surrendered when they did. As it is, we dropped two nuclear weapons on them before we were through.
And this attack is far, far worse than Pearl was. Pearl was military. These were civilians. We could DO this, if we chose to. Part of me - the part I'm desperately trying to ignore - thinks we should, just to show them that we can play at that level a lot better and a lot harder than they could. Level a city every hour until BinLaden's head is handed to us.
No, that's not the answer. But right now, it'd FEEL damned good.
I really hope we can avoid attacking innocent arab-americans for this. But if it turns out that the terrorists were residents as well (someone even suggested that an ACTUAL airline pilot might have been a terrorist), this may be a futile hope.
That stakes have been raised. We can either fold or call. If we fold, they'll just do it again the next time they want something. If we call... we'd better win the hand.
I'm not sure who would be insulted by anything said at this time. Except me, of course, about what some people are trying to spread about the MOSSAD. All I have to say is "WAKE UP!" There is a war going on out there, one that has been rageing for the last 30 years, and the Israelis have been the only ones who have continued to hold the line against the darkness. While the rest of us in West have stuck our heads in the sand, and blinded ourselves to the fact that terrorism "can't happen here," that we "are safe" from those elements, that "it only happens over there..." What most of us in the West didn't seem to realize is that if you have your head in the sand, you are in the perfect position for someone to come along and kick you right in the ass. Well, it looks like Bin Laden had his steel toed boots on today. And before anyone launches into "we don't know who did this" well, (IMHO) look at the facts;
1) Despite what the Afgans said, the guy is loaded out the whazoo...he has the resources.
2) He was behind the WTC bombing.
3) His men planned and executed the simutaneous bombing on the American Embassies in Africa...Sounds like a test to me.
But as I said that is only my opinion.
As to restraint...I agree until you have found those responsible...then as has been stated previously on thread make sure they reap the whirlwind. If you go in make sure no-one is left standing...NO-ONE. I'm sorry but if someone who is trying to kill me is hiding in a house with "innocents" I'm still going to lay into the house so I'm the one that walks away. He who hides the gunman is no longer a bystander. Since other have used game terms here, I will use a movie quote "Wipe them out, all of them."
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In the Praetors Name!
I have been following this event sice it happened this morning. I was on my way to work and herd the news on my car's radio. As soon as I got to work, I turned on the tv and was glued to it all day. Not that I had to worry about not getting any work done, hardly any customers came into the store today. Here it is 14 hours later and I am still as shocked as when I first heard about today's horrific events. All I have felt all day is sorrow, anger, and horrow as I think about the catastrophic loss of life.
I remember years ago befor I enlisted in the Army how gung ho I was. I was young, nieve, eager to go into combat and prove myself. Then when Desert Storm erupted, I had my chance. I went, I did my duty, and realized the true horror of warfare. It took that event to make me realize that violence really dosent accomplish anything exept creat more sorrow. Over the last couple of years, I felt that I had matured and became more enlightened. One of the things that appealed to me about Star Trek was the Federation and its ideals. I feel its the model society and thats where I would like to see humanity.
With today's events, we have proved that we have a long way to go. The reason I say this is now I have no intrest in world peace or creating a brighter future. It saddens me to say that I have regressed to the attitude I had in my youth. The more I think about this the angrier I get. I'm shocked to here myself, but I want blood. These people must pay for what they have done and the must pay dearly.
Lets remember that every US soldier that has ever fallen in battle gave his life for freedom. So that the people of the United States could continue to be free. If our nation fails to respond to this attack on our way of life, then those brave men and women who paid the ultimate price for our freedom will have done so in vain. As a war vet I can not tolerate that. I read a quote somewhere, it goes "The protected enjoy a freedom that they can never truly appreciate." It refers to the civillians who never served in the armed forces. It also refers to the fact that Americans are generally complacent and take alot of things for granted. Before today, I feel only veterans would undestand that quote. Now, it seems that everyone will. I just wish that understanding was acheived another way.
I know I'm just rambling on, but I had to get it off my chest. I dont know if I'll ever have those feelings that made me like Trek so much or if I really want to. Later
I woke up this morning to find that my country had been attacked! My Department mobilized and I was at work for 14 hrs.
This is ten times worse than Pearl Harbor!
Never would I had thought that this could have happened, or that there would be people so crule to do it.
Vengence is mine says the Lord. This time the United States of America will get vengence. And God help anyone who gets in the way!!