ground based laser defense system works

They don't have to actually launch their weapons to change our policy. I'll reference again Gen. Xiong Guankai's thinly veiled threat to nuke Los Angeles if we came to Taiwan's defense. Our calculations of what's an acceptable level of friendly civilian casualties isn't shared by all of our possible opponents. L'il Kim's already starving a very sizable fraction of his population, and none of his generals are terribly interested in telling him what he doesn't want to hear. What's to say the pompadored psychopath won't try lobbing a Taep'o-Dong-1 at Hawaii? You really want our only option in that case to be mourning the population of Honolulu and then vaporizing everything between the 38th parallel & the Yalu River?

This isn't paranoia, it's contengency planning. Between WWI & II we had an assortment of naval war plans listed by color codes. WP Black was Germany, Orange was Japan, White was a domestic uprising (parts of which were activated in response to the Bonus Army protests of 1932), Grey - a carribean nation, Green - Mexico, Purple -a Latin American country, Gold was France (They were taken quite seriously until 1939...), and Red was our special allies in the UK. Gold & Red were considered very unlikely, but they were prepared for nonetheless. When the feces impact the ventilator, it's too late to start drawing up plans from scratch. Likewise, when the missiles are in flight, it's too late to start building lasers & ABMs.

If Li'l Kim is so unstable and itching for a fight, as you seem to paint him, then he'll drop the hammer the day before the defense system goes online.

Come to think of it, if he is so big an insano then why hasn't he already dropped California into the drink?

"And as for the suitecase nukes, we're already keeping an eye on our ports, and are actively involved in killing those who want to use one on us."

The current tactics used against terrorism is comparible to fighting cancer with orange juice. Point of proof...Al Qeda (or however you spell it) is still around, in spite of everyones best efforts. War evolves as seen by Cavalry v. tanks in WWI, mobile combat tactics v. static defense WWII, irregular forces v. Regular Army Vietnam...Now it is Terror v. Resolve. Why would Li'l Kim dirty his hands by pushing the button when he can get a bunch of fanatics, not directly connected to him, to do his work? And as to keeping an eye on the airports...I seem to remember reading an article somewhere that said most Western Airports are far from being as alert as they can be.

But, since I can't convince you I 'll finish by saying "hell ya, forget a chicken in every pot. Let's put a 50 Gigawatt flashlight on the roof of every house." I'm sure everyone will be real happy then, until they realize it causes sterility or something.:eek: :D


Though I'm sure it would find a good use during duck season. With computerized tracking, they can kill and cook all in one shot, and you don't have to worry about those pesky pellets.:D

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Between WWI & II we had an assortment of naval war plans listed by color codes. WP Black was Germany, Orange was Japan, White was a domestic uprising (parts of which were activated in response to the Bonus Army protests of 1932), Grey - a carribean nation, Green - Mexico, Purple -a Latin American country, Gold was France (They were taken quite seriously until 1939...), and Red was our special allies in the UK.

--Cybrludite

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What! :eek: No contengency plan for Canada! I know they are up to something up there.

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Originally posted by Phantom
War evolves as seen by Cavalry v. tanks in WWI

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And in WWII, Polish Lancers vs Panzers!

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Though I'm sure it would find a good use during duck season. With computerized tracking, they can kill and cook all in one shot, and you don't have to worry about those pesky pellets.

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Phalanx and Goalkeeper seems to like seagulls. Don't tell PETA, they'll probably demand the removal of these two systems. :D

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Originally posted by redwood973
What! :eek: No contengency plan for Canada! I know they are up to something up there.

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Yeah, our plan is see who will be the worst PM, then ship he South and hope he runs for Prez. Then we move swiftly and quitely to add the US as the largest Province. :D :p

"Phalanx and Goalkeeper seems to like seagulls. Don't tell PETA, they'll probably demand the removal of these two systems."

My lips are sealed. I hate seagulls.:eek: :D

The sanity or rationality of foreign leaders can change. No one can ensure to anyone else that with a 100% certainty that we will NEVER go to war against Europe, China, India or anyone else. Strategy dictates that we prepared for the unforseen and a type of ballistic defense system seems like a worthy enterprise. The goal is for defense; and the assumption behind the system is that you will never have to use it. Similar to the creation, production and deployment of nuclear weapons.

I was thinking about it yesterday of a good simile to the issue. Let's say a state designed a mobile laser defense system that could protect divisions or brigades against RPG's and other rocket type attacks. It would essentially make mechanized units invincinble when confronting an enemy without the system. The creation of a missile defense system towards ICBM is similar. It would propel whatever state designed it way ahead of any potential opponents. The goal would be to deter. I know that the system could potentially become a massive waste of money, however, its worth attempting the development. The Crusader project would have advanced the U.S. maybe 30-40 years ahead of everyone else in terms of ordinance delivery.

You can see an evolution of weaponry through the ages. Each step seems to eliminate more individuals out of the actual fighting. The end-goal of any armed force is to remove their soldiers from the equation and have robotized units do the fighting. Whether by UAV's in the air, mechanized units controlled by satellite or boats with automated functions; the end goal is less soldiers in harms way. The side effect now is that each state attempts to aim for your C&C. With the ability to engage enemy forces across the world within days, then the need to be able to reciprocate against your enemies C&C is necessary.

As for Canada, why do you think we're all so close to your border...:eek: :) Soon we'll form an unstoppable mass of mechanized igloos and...beer! You'll never stop us!;)

Oh and Poles didn't charge German tank divisions with cavalry. Polish cavalry was used to transport artillery and supplies around. Also much more useful in the a country with nearly no roads or highways (to this date they only have ONE freaking tiny highway...).

Its really about foresight and strategy. IF in the highly unlikely event such an attack would happen 40-50 years down the road then possessing such a system would be logical. How many major weapon systems were thought to be too costly at the time they were being created? I think its worth it, but I know the project will die in the development phase. Seems like military R&D throughout the world is slowing down and becoming hugely expensive. That may be a good thing in the end.:cool:

Edited so I can pat myself on the back for my 1000th post.:D

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Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos
Soon we'll form an unstoppable mass of mechanized igloos and...beer! You'll never stop us!;)

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The Infamous Yellow Ice Defense System ! Bad Lt. Antos for not keeping the secret. You'll have to sing Oh! Canada twenty times to be forgiven. (Thirty times if you use the French lyrics!) :D ;)

"I was thinking about it yesterday of a good simile to the issue. Let's say a state designed a mobile laser defense system that could protect divisions or brigades against RPG's and other rocket type attacks. It would essentially make mechanized units invincinble when confronting an enemy without the system."

However, the "Enemy" would soon develope its own system result, like so many other military innovations, stalemate. Now, with systems like tanks and infantry weapons that's not a big problem. But, each turret will probably cost about as much as Bolivia. What will they do 2 years down the line when it is obselete? I know they'll build an even bigger version, stick it on the moon and threaten to vape anyone who doesn't call them Freedom Fries.:eek: :D

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Originally posted by redwood973
What! :eek: No contengency plan for Canada! I know they are up to something up there.

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At the time, they were covered as part of WP Red. Caused a bit of a stir in US/Canada relations when it was declassified in the '70s.

(Edited because I misread)

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Originally posted by Kaiddin
The Infamous Yellow Ice Defense System ! Bad Lt. Antos for not keeping the secret. You'll have to sing Oh! Canada twenty times to be forgiven. (Thirty times if you use the French lyrics!) :D ;)

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Oh Canada!...(goes on and on)

Our real contigency plan in case is threatened is the super secret plan B. It goes like this:

-We declare war on the U.S.A.
-We invade Vermont.
-We surrender to the U.S.A. before anyone can do anything.

HA! Its fool proof really. How can anyone refuse our surrender?!:p

In the end, the system would become just like any other major weapon system. It would be updated, re-fashioned, expanded upon every few years. Kind of like nuclear weapons were made more powerful, more accurate and overall easier to maintain.

Though I like the moon idea...

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Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos
HA! Its fool proof really. How can anyone refuse our surrender?!:p

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Simple. We just have to declare No Quarter. :eek: Of course, I can't think of anything Canada could do to torque the US off that badly, though. (I mean, it's not like y'all are France... :D ) That was a joke, son, a joke! Don't lock the thread on us!

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Originally posted by Lt.Khrys Antos

Though I like the moon idea...

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In best Elvis voice.

Thank ya, thank ya very much.

The whole argument about the 'arms race' that people use as a reason for America (or any other power) to develop new weapons is there isn't an arms race! America is the only country developing anything new!

If America develops a super laser weapon that can smite it's enemies then yes perhaps China or err - well yeah WHO is this mythical person / persons who is going to actually invest billions in a project to develop some new uber weapon to rival that ? No one but america has that kind of resource, except badly written supervilains in a james bond style novel :D

Yes if america invents a new kind of *new and improved* gun then yeah it won't take long before someone pinches one from the field and improves their own weapon to match it - but the difference between a new boring process or new types of lenses on your sights is different than backwards engineering a superlaser weapon - or stealing it! :) Basically if america doesn't make this NO ONE else is going to have one!

Most of the other powers rely on cheap and readilly available technology and most worryingly fanatical people - there is NO technology that can defeat a person - we are always smarter than the technology we invent (well ok so far anyway :D)

To be honest the one piece of technology which COULD help in America's current battles would be something like the tricorder - a chemical nose, an X ray/ MRI scanner- combining all our knowhow into one place and ready deployment.. Ok so you can't stop someone from doing something stupid but you can know he's got explosives strapped on him ! However of course that's out of our ability right now! Roll on a tricorder :D

In reading this thread, I have seen two sides of this debate . . . and one of them for the most part discredits the future of ballistic and/or conventional warfare against state actors, while focusing their efforts against non-state actors that will use unconventional warfare using low-cost readily available technology. While this is a justified and tried and true new threat, it doesn't mean that conventional warfare agianst a state actor, or a multiple state actor is unforceable in the future.

And as such, if there is still that threat, one must develop countermeasures against the strengths of those forces, as well as to decrease ones own weaknesses. And in accordance to that, there is still a threat of one day in the future a state-actor, or a non-state actor with the access to ballistic weaponry, may chose to use this weaponry as leverage or to actually use it. Therefore, there is cause to develop technologies that lead towards a system that could marginalize the effect of such weaponry.

Yet, in the same token, we must also adapt some of our forces to combat this new type of warfare that doesn't center itself around the conventional force of brigades, and higher echolons of units; of a decentrilized force that has no real command structure that warpes and uses ones beliefs to advance their own agenda. And in doing so, new technology and new doctorine will be developed that will, with time and experience, be found effective in that type of warfare.

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Originally posted by JALU3

Yet, in the same token, we must also adapt some of our forces to combat this new type of warfare that doesn't center itself around the conventional force of brigades, and higher echolons of units; of a decentrilized force that has no real command structure that warpes and uses ones beliefs to advance their own agenda. And in doing so, new technology and new doctorine will be developed that will, with time and experience, be found effective in that type of warfare.

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I could fully agree with you on this point, except for one thing. There is only so much $$$ to go around, end result they only go for one plan. And it is usually the big, maybe usuful in the future boondoogle that will be chosen. Not the less expensive, useful now idea.