A limited early to mid-Dominion War Federation / Romulan Officer Exchange program...sounds very intriguing. I like the idea.
Phoenix...
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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon
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A limited early to mid-Dominion War Federation / Romulan Officer Exchange program...sounds very intriguing. I like the idea.
Phoenix...
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"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
-Napoleon
I had contemplated a chronicle opening in 2372 on a ship manned by a joint Starfleet-Romulan crew. The ship would be an older one, one of the classes from the 2320s or earlier, with only minor refitting -- Starfleet's not *stupid*, after all, and isn't going to invite Romulans to serve on the newest, greatest vessels in numbers that can't be watched carefully (being one Romulan observer on the Defiant is like being one large fish in a medium-sized tank ... everyone can *see* you, dammit, and you can't get away with nothin'). The ideas were for either a Constellation, Wambundu, Ambassador, or Miranda class ship (with the first two preferred by me the most), with a refit Romulan cloaking device. The ship would be doing 'secondary battle line' missions during the Dominion War.Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix:
A limited early to mid-Dominion War Federation / Romulan Officer Exchange program...sounds very intriguing. I like the idea.
Phoenix...
A Starfleet CO and XO and Chief Engineer, Romulan 2nd Officer and Tactical Officer, all other positions 'up for grabs' to either side.
Ah, well. Someday I'll flesh out the chronicle and run it.
BJ
I've been involved in a game which involved a Fed ship with a Romulan exchange officer. From a purely player-Narrator point of view, it's a lot of fun, especially dealing with the cultural differences and pre-programmed responses to various situations. The ship involved was Intrepid-class, by the way, so you get an idea of the crew size. What we did was refit it with "older" technology we were reasonably sure the Romulans were already fully aware of so there wouldn't be too much of a breach of security. Of course, there are all kinds of issues involved, but it's still lots of fun to play. Half the fun of role-playing is exploring what could be.
Well I love the idea of the Romulan Excahnge officer, but back on topic http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
I am with Dan and Tonyg here, stealth, cloaking, the Romulns would probably see it as the same. You can argue about it all you want, but when the fleet of Warbirds decides to pull out of the major offensive you have planned, Starfleet will backdown. On this topic the Romulans write the rules IMHO. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
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Aslan Collas
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RPG_Trek; http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rpg-trek
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Ferengi Rule Of Acquisition #76: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.
Well, IMHO, the difference between the energy sheath and the cloaking device is in the use of the word "Device".
a device is something that can be turned on and off at will. an energy sheath is a permanant addition (always on), and doesn't cover the full range of sensory countermeasures. therefore it is not a cloaking device.
Simliarly, a holographic generator that makes the ship look different and detect as a different is not a cloaking device because the ship still shows up on sensors.
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Even in this age of technological wonders, the human mind is still the most powerful weapon in the universe.
With my albeit limited knowedge of legalese I would venture to guess that a cloaking device would be whatever it was devined in the treaty with.
There is no way that the Federation diplomats would have signed a treaty banning something as broad spectrum as "cloaking device". That would have been like banning something as broad as directed energy emitting devices. Yes it could prevent phasers but would ban laser scalpels. In the same way, the UFP might ben hesitant to ban devices which may be needed in the future.
The diplomats _would_ have likely done as negotiated a ban on technology for a distinct type of obfuscation, the type or types that the Romulans concidered a threat (generally those similar to their own). Mostly likey it would include a long list of technological achievements which would allow Romulan-style cloaks (like the phase cloak) possible (and have no side-benefits). Technologies that the UFP saw no need for but at the same time technologies which would convince the Rommies that we couldn't develop a cloak.
The Romulans may have had the same attitude about the Defiant's use of a cloaking device that the Obsidian Order did in the episode "The Defiant" which occurred only slightly after "The Search" in which T'rul was assigned to oversee the cloaks proper use in the Gamma Quadrant. Remember Korinas said that the Order did not feel that one cloaking device used by the Federation represented a "threat" and the Order itself at the time was ironically enough equipping its Keldon class battlecruisers with Romulan devices in the Orias system. The Romulan Empire was stated to be quite distant from DS9 so if the Defiant used the cloak why should the Romulans worry? Another point to consider is why at the time of the Dominion War alliance would Federation ships be banned from installing cloaking devices considering both the other two powers the Romulans and Klingons used them in their ships. We also discovered that the Dominion could detect cloaked vessels with anit-proton scans and powerful detection arrays in the Argolis/Chin'Toka (AR-558) systems. Ships using cloaking devices could be detected at high warp something T'rul relunctantly revealed in "The Search". It seems to me that after the discovery of the Dominion the Romulans were quite willing to look the other
way regarding the Defiant's use of a cloaking device perhaps a small price for them to pay for information on the new threat from the new quadrant whose gateway was on Federation turf.
Gents, I don't know how many of you play diplomatic or law room episodes, but all these arguments could be turned in a very interesting adventure where the PC's are called upon to re-define the nature of the Treaty with post war "friendly" Romulans, for example. Some fine argumentation in the courts as an A plot line could be a change of pace to exploration or adventure missions.
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Man is to man a god when he recognizes his duty.
[This message has been edited by Keeper (edited 07-22-2001).]
1) I feel the energy sheath would probably make it past the treaty stipulations. No, folks aren't looking out portholes, but the laters and visual sensors do still work.
2) As for the Romulans being "unpredictable" and possibly pulling out of the alliance - no way. They weren't in the alliance as a favor to anyone. Once they realized they were in danger too, they join the fray. Just because the UFP has a "cloak" doesn't mean the Dominion threat is lessened. Priorities - defeat the Domionion THEN deal with the UFP.
-- Daniel
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-- "Since the whiskey belongs to me, and it's on me, lets drink to me!"
Captain Chatters,
Another point I forgot to make in my above post. I think you should define what the stipulations are yourself. This way you can best match the types of adventures and level of Romulan intrigue you wish to have. Obviously, you're not going to find consensus here. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
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-- "Since the whiskey belongs to me, and it's on me, lets drink to me!"
Actually, this raises another point - what about multiadaptive and refractive shields? According to the Spacedock rules, these effectively give a ship a Class 6 cloaking device. True, they require a skilled engineer to set up and maintain, and the power cost is probably even higher than a standard cloak (since you need to maintain the shields as well), but how would the Rommies feel about them?
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"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest
Again I point to Rule #1 of role-playing: the Narrator is always right. We also know that the Federation did develop that phase cloak in direct violation of the treaty. Soooo...what that means is that it's up to you to decide whether to go ahead with it, and it's up to you do decide if and how the Romulans will react http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
What do you WANT to do? I guess that's the basic question.
A quick technical note.
A Cloaking Device does not equate to Invisibility.
Remember the TOS episode with the Romulan Bird of Prey... If I remember correctly it was slightly difficult to track due to its cloaking device.
However we, the audience, could clearly see it on screen (If I remember correctly). This easily equates Any sensor altering device or technique as a cloak.
Further advancements altered the effect to add physical invisibility to the process. And the process has gotten better as time has moved on.
As stated previously, the cloak HAS to effect sensors over number one optical sensor. Look at the ranges involved, in the infinate depths of space, who cares if its visible, most contact would be beyond the range of the naked eye anyway.
And lets face it, in a universe were clear viewports are conspiquously absent from the command sensor (the viewscreen image is made up of sensor data, not the camera crew glued to the saucer section in EVA suits http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif ) there is little requirement for the primary focus of a cloak to be physical invisibility over sensor invisibility.
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DanG.
"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."
http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk
The treaty was based around the technology of the time the Romulan cloak, which selectively bends light around the ship (canon description as mentioned in "Balance of Terror) making it invisable to both the naked eye and the sensor systems of a starship, this is the definition of a cloak as under the Treaty. So, as long as a defensive system does not fall into the "bending of light" category it is not covered under the Treaty, therefore no violation.
As you recall the Romulan ship had to go thru the tail of a comet so the Enterprise could target it, let alone see it. So, for all intents and purposes a cloaked ship cannot be seen. Also rmember when the Romulan senator arrived on DS9, his shuttle was invisable, until they dropped the cloak in the shuttle bay.
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In the Praetors Name!
Quote:
Originally posted by Capt.Hunter:
Actually, this raises another point - what about multiadaptive and refractive shields? According to the Spacedock rules, these effectively give a ship a Class 6 cloaking device. True, they require a skilled engineer to set up and maintain, and the power cost is probably even higher than a standard cloak (since you need to maintain the shields as well), but how would the Rommies feel about them?
The main jist of the Treaty I get is, does it make the ship visually invisible? If it does then it violates the treaty. If it makes it invisible to sensors only then it is not considered true cloaking technology by the Romulan, though mind you they probably won't be to happy but it doesn't break the treaty.
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In the Praetors Name!