Speculation on Decipher TrekRPG

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Don:
Wizards holds the rights to specific manuscripts (which they have since paid "kill fees" for), not book concepts. It's a moot point in that if Decipher wants to do a Klingon book, Bajor book, or even an Andorian book, they simply do so and write it.

---

What I'm wondering is, well, what exactly does a "kill fee" stipulate?

The Mirror, Mirror supplement, as well as the Klingon supplement, were both (from what I heard) pretty much finished and ready for publication.

IF (... and there's a big if here ...) Decipher gets the full rights to the existing Icon system from Wizards ... is it even hypothetically possible that Decipher may work out a new contract with the original authors of those two books to publish their already-written work?

These authors have already done all the research, thinking and writing, so it sounds like a win-win for everybody -- the authors would get more money for their efforts, all their work wouldn't go to waste, and Decipher would be able to get some supplements out in record time!

Or is that all just a wishful pipe dream?



------------------
Voka a Bentel
(May you walk with the Prophets),

Eris

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Rana naz’g ol resu ji joreen."
(It is the unknown that defines our existence)
-- Bajoran proverb
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm looking at this from a mercenary i.e. WOTC's stand point.

The issue is probably whether or not WOTC can make more money selling the Icon system to Decipher compared to what WOTC can expect to lose from having competition.

If gaining the money to stop the bleeding now is worth it to them, they'll sell.

If the amount of money they figure they'll lose having a competitor is minimal, they'll sell.

If they feel that Icon System could be a thorn in their side, they'll sit on the thing till it rots. That'll force Decipher to make their own game.

JMO, of cource.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kalamaro:
"ca ne doit pas etre jeté aux orties"

---

Just for the rest of you, this means

"It shouldn't be tossed aside"

It is an expression but it has merit and meaning here in this topic. I feel Icon needs a second edition (Sorry gonna stand by that one) as there are some flaws in the system, but otherwise it is a tight and decent system overall. It would be a shame to see it tossed aside by WoTC when they can sell it.

I for one am waiting to hear what the announcement at Gamma will be.

I also think that WotC is going to completely go D20 for their games (except the card based Marvel).

Actually, the SAGA card-based RPG system has been dumped, and WotC no longer have the Marvel license. I agree, WotC have decided to focus on and promote one RPG premise and that is the D20 system products, especially now that their budget has been reduced due to a bad fiscal year reporting great loss (which I say again, I blame Pokemon).

And I don't think a company selling two RPG systems is viable in the competing market. TSR did that (D&D rules, Boot Hill rules, Gamma World rules, SAGA, Amazing Engine, etc.) and look what happened to them. That is why companies like White Wolf, Steve Jackson Games, Hero Games, and Palladium are still able to survive by capitalizing on one thing they're good at, publishing products out of their own RPG system.

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

[This message has been edited by REG (edited 02-26-2001).]

Here's my 2 cents (that's what is probably worth too)

I believe that ICON system was only used for LUG Trek and the hardly seen Dune systems. I also think that WotC is going to completely go D20 for their games (except the card based Marvel). If I was Wizards, I won't have a problem selling the ICON system off.

The question then goes to Decipher: What's ICON worth to them? I'd hope it would be worth a decent amount considering I'm not buying their books unless they are easily converted over to LUG Trek. And what's easier to convert to than the same system?

Premise: Decipher buys ICON. Wizards gets money for a system they will probably never use again. Decipher doesn't have to develop a whole new system and has several writers that are already in the system mindset. And most important to Decipher: LOTS of happy customers buying their stuff because they didn't make us buy a whole new system.

http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/For...ML/000701.html

Is this true guys?

If it is a fake, adrian did his or her work. Monica Jones is in charge of CCG Media Relations according to http://www.decipher.com/aboutdeciphe...who/index.html

Plus, I believe adrian at this point... no reason to doubt him/her. I just hope that Decipher makes an official announcement sometime soon.

When is Gama (this year)?

IIRC, March 15. So the answers are around the corner.

Sometime soon? I'm about to freak out if they don't do the announcement during March! http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/eek.gif

I hope that prediction about a press release during GAMA proves true...

Dr. Jonas Bashir, who's rubbing his hands hoping the best case scenario http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

Okay, I was chatting with someone inside Wotc earlier. Though I got no official "Official" word on it I believe they are going to sell Icon to Decipher. I was told that the system is now completely useless to Wotc. In fact they may already have sold the rights. Now here is my question, if the rights to the Icon systems are sold how will that affect this site which Wotc gave right to continue using & posting Icon stuff? Don? Any comments?

Enquiring minds want to know. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
Captain Darkbane
U.S.S. Lexington NCC-1709
"Set Phasers to Stun? who's idea was that? {resets phaser to disrupt} Romulans are tough... They can take it!

Personally, I think that if/when Decipher does it's own Star Trek game (be it ICON or not), they should only do one core rule book, with supliments that cover how to do games in the other siries settings.

Let me explain: Let's say Decipher does get ICON, and uses it for their Star Trek game. A revision of the rules to correct the errors in the system would not be a bad idea. However, reprinting three Core Rule books that all have the same rules in it, just different settings, seems a tad much to me. I would like to see one Core Rule book, focusing on TNG, and then suppliments that discuss how to use those rules in a DS9 fringes of the Federation setting or a TOS era setting.

No offence ment to the LUG guys, I was more than willing to buy all their rule books! http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif I just think it would be easier on the pocket book this way. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Chris

------------------
Shawks Haters Club! Check for Gills!

I believe it was Paramount who insisted on every series having its own core book or some such.
I don't think their opinion will have changed now that Decipher is going to publish a (possibly new) game.

Hey guys!

Try not to badger ("We don' need no stinkin' badgers!") Don, Owen, Steve, or even the mysterious Dan Moppin http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif about the GAMA announcement or the possible sale of ICON to Decipher. If they have any knowledge of it, they are most probably bound, either legally, proffesionally, or ethically, to not reveal anything about it until the official announcement.

No sense puttin' da boyz on da spot. We shall all find out in due course.

Here's hopin' for the best.

Hugh


------------------
"Sell your soul to the Philadelphia Science Fiction Society... ASK ME HOW!"

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Hugh Casey:
Try not to badger ("We don' need no stinkin' badgers!") Don, Owen, Steve, or even the mysterious Dan Moppin http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif about the GAMA announcement or the possible sale of ICON to Decipher. If they have any knowledge of it, they are most probably bound, either legally, proffesionally, or ethically, to not reveal anything about it until the official announcement.No sense puttin' da boyz on da spot. We shall all find out in due course.

---

Awwwwwwwwww....but's it's a whole 15 days away!!!!!!!!!!!!....(Kicks at the dirt) Alright...But can we still engage in rampant specualtion?

The preceeding was a joke. Brought to you by the letter B

http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

To misquote Data;

"Please, continue with the petty rampant speculation!"

http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

I am a great sorcerer, but you may call me...
Hugh.



------------------
"Sell your soul to the Philadelphia Science Fiction Society... ASK ME HOW!"

[Begin rampant and completely unfounded speculation mode http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif]

*Queeg dons Karnak coat and hat*

The answers are:

1) Yes. Money, it's a gas. Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash.

2) Yes. Come in here dear boys have a cigar, you're gonna go far!

3) Not a chance. The paper holds their folded faces to the floor, and every day the paper boy brings more!

4) 42

*Queeg opens the envelope*

The questions are:

1) Has WotC sold the rights to ICON to Decipher?

2) Have former LUG staff been hired to write Trek games for Decipher?

3) Will Decipher arm wrestle Don into taking down the website?

4) What's the meaning to life, the universe, and everything?

[/End rampant and completely unfounded speculation mode http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif]

Floydishly yours,

LQ

Personally, the ideal situations would be that Decipher make the first new core rule book Star Trek: Voyager. Then in it they can print any changed rules from Icon, or if necessary the new game system rules, with conversion sheets for/to/from Icon.

That way, there will be four books, and maybe Decipher would have the rights to reprint the old books, if deemed necessary.

Okay, Caretaker, that would be cool too. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Chris

------------------
Shawks Haters Club! Check for Gills!

I would much rather see a single unified Star Trek RPG this time around. According to the LDs Back in the Day, they wanted to do this then, but Paramount insisted on keeping the titles as distinct games. If Paramount has softened on that stance, I'd love to see DecipherTrek take advantage of it so we have just one game.

Somebody asked about kill fees. There are a couple of answers to that. Traditionally, a "kill fee" is a contract clause in mundane journalism, where a writer agrees to write an article he's been approached to write and a magazine agrees to pay him something even if they elect not to print it after all. When a writer is paid a kill fee, it's in recognition for his time spent, and it officially means both "your work is rejected" and "your work is your property; we don't want it." Since the contract will always specify the pay rate for accepted work, any killfee'd work always reverts to the writer, by law. This prevents publishers from paying the cheaper killfee and then later "changing their mind" and publishing the material.

The above does apply to the WotC deal, as far as several unpublished freelance manuscripts are concerned. I and other writers recieved both our killfees and our rights, and they were even good enough to be explicit about it (even if it took them forever).

However, as with all things in gaming, lots of game publishers misuse the term, or at least apply their own spin to it. I mention this as an off-topic tangent, just in case there are any freelancers or would-be freelancers curious about it. Steve Jackson Games uses the phrase "killfee" to cover buyouts of manuscripts that they still intend to publish after development by a better writer! Provided such development really does occur (in which case the final book is only partly the work of the killfee'd author) this is certainly ethical, but is IS a different use of the term than is traditional in publishing. Other companies may use their own versions, but the ins and outs of SJG's habits I know all too well http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Looks over at everybody beating the bush senseless.

Alright I will ask what everybody is getting around to slowly.

If and only if ICON is reborn from Decipher what does that mean for the works from Steve L (Spacedock, SRM's, and Dominion War sourcebooks), Don (Voyager) and the various chapters put up by Sjohn and Steve K. that we all have or are about to recieve? Will there be a new softcover second edition of them published as part of a future line of Trek RPGs? or is it back to square one on these subjects?

Well, I for one would be perfectly happy to shell out for Spacedock and the SRM in book form.

Not only would it be easier to carry, but the illustrations of some of the lesser known ships would come in handy...

Dont get me wrong, I love Spacedock, and cant remember how I managed without it, but I would be willing to pay in addition to the free copy I already have...

------------------
Dan.

"A couple of thoughts from a random mind!"

Me as well. Especially for later SRMs (Klingon and Romulan in particular, though they're not out yet). Ones that don't already have pics you can find on the net.

Pat

While I love having electronic copies of books, I'll always go for a hardcopy of any RPG I play.

A book in PDF form is great when I'm away from my Big Shelf O' Games. Or, if I'm searching for something in a book and flipping pages isn't finding it, it's really easy to find a keyword in a PDF.

For me, it's like dice. I've got friends who will show up at the game on the weekend and proceed to use an electronic dice roller on their laptops. I just scratch my head.

There is something very nice about the tactile experience of rolling a bucket of dice onto the table or turning the pages of a sourcebook. The electronic analogues will never be able to replace that. Not for me anyway.

I'd gladly pay for a copy of any of the material released in electronic form. Though, I may need to get a bigger Big Shelf O' Games.

.Sal



------------------
Salinger/TheDuck

"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...it's probably Salinger." -Quack!

http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_staff.gif

Count me in for paying for hard copies of the PDF stuff. I like books. Hey, how about the PDF with the books, so we can have the best of both worlds.

I'll just go to Home Depot and buy some U-build shelves. That's my home decor, anyways. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

may I again suggest activity at www.decipher.com 's rpg board's wish list?

[This message has been edited by Cochrane (edited 03-02-2001).]

Interesting - I found this on the decipher discussion board.

Re: ... Dean Irwin ... 10.02-22:09
>
> Hey Decipher folks, its been a long time since the official announcement back at GenCon, how about allaying some fears and letting your potential customers in on the big secret?
>
> The key points I am looking for:
>
> Will there be a Star Trek RPG published by Decipher?

Yes!
>
> If so, what are the system options that are being looked at?
> (purchasing ICON, building your own, or other)

We are evaluating all options. If we design a new game system, we expect
to have a conversion system.

>
> If you are making your own system, what basis will it stand on?
> (D6 variant, diceless, or something else)


It's too early to tell.

>
> Will there be an attempt to purchase the unpublished material from LUG?

No.

>
> What timeframe are we looking at for the first item to hit the streets?
> (generic, like 4th Quarter 2002 or whatever)

The release date is not set, but I expect it will be late 2001 or early
2002.

>
>
> I, and many others, appreciate any sincere communications from the powers that be.

I certainly understand you desire for details, but we don't plan any
public announcements on gameplay until late next year. We have made a
long-term commitment to this game and I assure you the product we
ship will meet the high standards you have come to expect from Decipher.

Keep in mind that the world-wide portion of our license doesn't begin
for another nine months and additionally, we want the marketplace to be
clean of LUG product. Other than announcing the license itself, it's very
early for us to be making public statements about a game that we don't
expect to be shipping until a year or more from now.

Thanks for your patience! We will continue to release information as we have it and we look forward to continually receiving everybody's feedback!

-Dean Irwin


For what its worth....

One thing to note on the message from the Decipher message board is that it was posted back in October.

What Decipher said four months ago, may not necessarily apply today. And, when that message was written, the license was still with LUG/WotC.

Hopefully they will have a bone to throw our way soon.

.Sal

------------------
Salinger/TheDuck

"If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...it's probably Salinger." -Quack!

http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_staff.gif

Well, as for me -- I'm not worried about Decipher's TREK RPG having quality; I'm sure it will be good -- their Trek CCG is always well done (if delayed with production problems http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif But the area where LUG and ICON have them licked, and likely will forever, is DEPTH. How soon would you expect Decipher to put out an ANDORIAN sourcebook? Maybe their own version of "Pirates and Smugglers?" Or maybe a Time-Travel companion?
Anybody getting my drift?
While I do expect their TREK RPG to be of high quality, the depth will be light-years behind LUG's, and will initially be "just another core book for a new RPG line." Sure, they COULD develop depth over time, but I just don't see them getting that far into the Star Trek universe for RPGing purposes. It's like LUG Trek was written by people that A) like Star Trek, B) liked Role-Playing, and C) were fans themselves, and thus knew what fans would want written. Most RPG makers, in my experience, try to turn out the books that will appeal to the largest base of people, not the little niche-books that really make a universe like Star Trek come alive. But time will tell, no?
Here's to hoping.

------------------

Okay and I may be getting myself in hot water here and I don't mean it to be. But if Decipher really wants to make it work, they have to hire better interior artists. I mean the stuff inside a lot of the LUG supplements left most of us cringing (I worked in Hobby Distribution at the time). The most common complaint we ever heard from our customers (read stores) was that the artwork was not up to par with the rest of the book. I have to agree. Sometimes I wonder if these artists even watched Star Trek. That said if they do get some top shelf art talent (Prime Directive suffered from the same problem) then it can only enhance whatever quality the books had.

Okay now if any of the artists from the LUG stuff are on this form, I apologize if I have offended you but I had to say it.

Preparing himself for a flame attack...



------------------
Aslan Collas
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit Earth Alpha Online;
http://members.xoom.com/Aslan_Collas/
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ferengi Rule Of Acquisition #76: Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies.

AslanC, just coming to the support of a fellow Canadian, I agree with you 100%. The core books were well done visually, hard not to be with colour shots from the shows, but the Romulan Box set needed a little more planning in my opinion. I don't know why the supplements could not be on par with the core books, they did a good job on "The Price of Freedom" and went down hill from there. Anyway, we'll have to wait and see what happens in the coming months.

Prepares for the firestorm. Hey, AslanC any more room in that foxhole?

I personally don't care much about the artwork. And depth is basically the most important thing for me.

I don't care for artwork either (trust me, in my diaper days in the 80's, I thought the Tampa Bay Buccaneers is the best football team because of their cool-looking helmet).

If they have to put great artwork, put it on the wrappings (covers). The rest inside are just fillers, unless you're illustrating relevant points such as showing images of different types of phasers and Klingon weapons, or combat examples.

*I don't wear Armani, I wear clothes*

------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...

Yes, the LUG books are filled to the brim on in-depth detail, I love that I have found bits of really intersting info in just about all the books that have been released. The Andorian Sourcebook is one of the best RPG books I have ever read and the Romulan sourcebooks come in at a close second. Now, having said that when I opened the Rom. Box set I was very happy at the detail but wondered to myself, very briefly, if the purchase had been a wise one, because the art work, in my opinion, brought the "look" and feel of the book down they made it look almost "comic book" in some places. Good presentation never hurts.

I enjoy reading the books, but they are not all that "pretty" to look at.

Since folks have been saying nice things about Among the Clans, I think it's appropriate to bring up a note of congratulations that isn't rung too often, and that's to Christian Moore.

It was Christian's idea to do an Andorian book. Everybody else thought it an odd decision, and Ken Hite even protested (although obviously not too strongly - that's not the way Ken does things). I was eager to take on the book because it was such an offbeat thing; I tend to specialize in the wierd little books that lurk in the corners of a game line. The ones that only a few people get (but then they're happy with them) http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif It was the same with books like GURPS Russia (the main reason Ken wanted me for ATC), and I'm magnifying the effect a hundredfold by moving heavily to eBooks, where my readers will number in the dozens instead of the thousands http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

So, in sum: Kudos to Christian Moore for believing in Andorians, and more cheap plugs for my ebooks. So there http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Phantom:
Prepares for the firestorm. Hey, AslanC any more room in that foxhole?

---

Well it doesn't look that bad so far...Beer? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Okay true the important thing is the subject matter. If the books are deep and well written then they are gems unto themselves. But I need to see that kind of quality all over. And it isn't like there are not hordes of really talented black and white, 3d Graphic and paint artists out there who can do amazing stuff and are starving for work. So when I see sub-par artwork in a book, I can only think someone's friend got a job. Which is cool and all, but takes away from the overall product for me. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Hey guys,
Check this out:
(2/15 http://www.gamesunplugged.com/)
Now, the question begs; is this story official, or are we still working in the shroud of rumor…
(and if it is true, then we all have The Transformed Man and REG to thank:
“To me, it only makes sense Decipher would approach former LUG employees and freelancers... they have no in-house RPG department, and there's a pool a highly qualified Trek game writers/developers that have suddenly become availible... it's a no-brainer.”
“I agree. If the guys at Decipher are smart enough to pull of that scheme last summer, they should be smart enough to take advantage of the opportunity regarding WotC layoff.”

(Boy, I bet you wished for world peace instead. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif)


------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

Hmm . . . I sencerely hope that Decipher does go about producing a ST:RPG, however, I hope that they keep with a continuality idea and allow us to continue to use our LUG books and theirs without any major conflict in usage. I mean the system works, unless it can be improved (which it can be) don't change it.

As far as the CCG goes . . . I use to play . . . I like the system . . . but the newer decks just diluted it for me . . . so I stopped . . . and all those hundreds of cards that I have are now gathering dust at my friends house. However, I wouldn't trade them for anything short of a Return trip to Singapore ( I do have my dreams to you know :-D ).

------------------
"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

Well, I share everyone's hope with this likely acquisition of ICON and the old LUG staff by Decipher.
Just as a reminder to all the gaming grognards out there, while we may like to snipe at WOTC for their hubris and snicker at their current dilemma, their surrender of the ICON license just shows how desparate they must be to show some viability to their parent Hasbro. Remember, if WOTC goes down, a lot of the gaming industry will follow into a Dark Age. While it may recover, it will take time.
Decipher has always adhered to high production standards. I think the interior artwork for any future Trek RPG will be based around enhanced images, computer-generated & enhanced, such as those found in their newer CCG decks.

Charles

So is there any more word from Decipher on this, or is it still a largely unfounded rumour?

I'm hoping it's true. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Then again, we're well into 2001 now. Surely it can't be MUCh longer before Decipher makes some sort of official announcement?

------------------
Captain Daniel Hunter
CO NCC-73602, U.S.S. Intrepid
Star Trek: Intrepid