On Screen: Another TNG Movie?

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Originally Posted by REG

Huh???

Did we have a label change? Since when did Star Trek become a mainstream film?



Not a whole lotta under-40 chicks in some of the recent Trek films, unless you count the Borg Queen in FIRST CONTACT (so far the only TNG film I can tolerate watching).

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I think that FC has been a great movie, but it hasn't been a very trekish one. The very dark, almost Alien-like atmosphere, the heavy on action storyline. That wasn't a Star Trek movie per se. Yes, it featured the cast and the villans from TNG but apart from that it was the most mainstreamed product of the series up until then. But that's not what Star Trek in the main part (especcialy not TNG) was all about. TNG wasn't the dark, gloomy, rich in warstories setting. The Borg situation demanded a clearing up, and it was well done in the movie, but that's not the core of TNG.

I think that though not as well liked as the other movies ST:Insurrection was a typical Star Trek (TNG) movie.

It was like a long episode brought to the big screen. A story about moral dilemma, friendship and even a little exploration (the Briar Patch). I liked it better than FC: More trekish less mainstream.

And I think that is what they should produce again: A good storyline, not too much battle and SFX and give the cast a proper farewell. Even Data.

And if it is not a huge finacial success but a decent Trek movie for the fans, who cares. Be honest to yourselves: No matter how good the next Trek movie fares it won't produce any more "offsprings" for years to come. We won't see another
movie or series for quite some time, so I'd say:

We, the fans have made Star Trek into what it is: One of the major SciFi sagas of all times. IMO the TNG cast and the fans deserve another STAR TREK movie.
Not Star Wars, "Star Aliens", Independence Day or something the like.

Then give the thing a rest or wait for the next miracle to happen that will give us nedw Trek stories on screen, either on Tv or the movies...

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Originally Posted by REG

Huh???

Did we have a label change? Since when did Star Trek become a mainstream film?

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I'm not sure I understand correctly, but I was referring to the fact that apparently ST movies are now considered "geeky" by the average audience. Since we were talking about how to attract non-fans to Trek movies, I was considering this as one of the drawbacks.

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Originally Posted by REG

Not a whole lotta under-40 chicks in some of the recent Trek films, unless you count the Borg Queen in FIRST CONTACT (so far the only TNG film I can tolerate watching).

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Ok, the chicks part has not been used much yet in Star Trek, but I see it belonging to the same package as the "explosions and FX" one (which has been used in Trek movies a lot - even though I love to see Trek with more FX than on the series, there are not a space battle in every Trek episode, and that's not only because of the budget).

The thing is though, we're missing he point here: Lord of the Rings could NOT be any geekier if it tried, yet it was widelly critically acclaimed, earned massive profits, and, except for a tiny minotity of die hards, satisfied the fans.. and that's what we need a Trek film to be! :) LoTR also kept the canon in tact, and didn't do horribly mangled things to the main characters either :)

Yes, the chick thing has been relagated to the Various Trek series (7of9, T'Pol, the Orion Slave girls, Hoshi to a lesser degree, and maybe even some of the 'sweeps week' stuff on DS9), but you know if a Trek movie was greenlighted today, that at least on Paramount studio rep would try and get "a sexy alien chick, played by an actress from the OC" into the mix :)

How ever, there has been an attempt in the more recent films, to up the "splosion" count. Look at WoK, then look at Nemesis.

But, at least Trek is light years behind another francise in its 'all characters are CGI quest! :p

I felt really slighted by LotR: I used to be harrased in HS for my D&D gaming. Now, the same class of bully can say their name in Elven, qoutes Aragon before football games, and dreams of slaying dragons and rescueing princesses!

My friends tell me the 'Geek is Chic' right now; great! I was geek before geek was cool.

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Originally Posted by C5

I'm not sure I understand correctly, but I was referring to the fact that apparently ST movies are now considered "geeky" by the average audience. Since we were talking about how to attract non-fans to Trek movies, I was considering this as one of the drawbacks.

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Now it's geeky? Star Trek films have always been geeky. It's the mainstream audience that crossed over to see what we like about it ... finally.

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Originally Posted by Tricky

But, at least Trek is light years behind another francise in its 'all characters are CGI quest! :p

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Meh. It's not like we need Star Wars aliens in Trek. It would be a nice bonus, so long we don't have stiff dialogues and subpar performance to go along with them.

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Originally Posted by Tricky

My friends tell me the 'Geek is Chic' right now; great! I was geek before geek was cool.

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Look at it this way: we were ahead of the time.

Then again, I wouldn't mind being born in 1979 rather than 1969.

Hmm Geek was never cool :) It's just remarketing and spin.. we like to do that too much this day and age.

As crappy and laughable as Trek aliens sometimes are.. at least they can be played by people and don't have to be cg animated, with a voice over!

Trek largelly makes high budget wierd aliens when it only has too, for plot reasons, not because it is trying to cover a hole in the LACK of plot "Quick distract them with a pointless wierd CG alien.. while I think up a plot" :D

Abd B5 proved that you can have VERY alien looking aliens without a cgi fest as well.

You mean B5, the show with virtual SETS?? :D

And alot of the aliens were CGI (Shadows, Ancients, out of suit Vorlons).

But I get the point.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Hmm Geek was never cool :)

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Yeah, only a mainstream would say that. We geeks and genre fans carry the label as a badge of honor. :p

To add some fuel to the fire:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22021

I would not like such a crossover idea. The result would be that all characters have very few screentime or some are stressed while others occur only shortly. I think TNG needs a sendoff and afterwards they can do something with the other crews.

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Originally Posted by Evan van Eyk

To add some fuel to the fire:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=22021

I would not like such a crossover idea. The result would be that all characters have very few screentime or some are stressed while others occur only shortly. I think TNG needs a sendoff and afterwards they can do something with the other crews.

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So which is more important ... the story or actors' airtime?

I didn't complain when Star Trek VI didn't give more airtime for Sulu. I was so wrapped up in the well-written story by Nicholas Meyer and Leonard Nimoy.

Oh god no, will they please let Starfleet academy DIE, it was a bad idea then and now, just get over it and move on! :)

There's a difference between airtime in which a character actually gets to do things, and airtime in which a character is part of the background. Sulo got to do cool things in ST VI, and he even got his own ship! Half the TNG crew were little more than extras on Nemesis, and they pointedly cut out any scenes they were in!

And Reg.. Geek is geek - it is by definition anti-cool, they are mutually exclusive concepts get over it! :)

Starfleet Academy was a great comic though.....

Seriously, a SFA show wouldnt be to bad; the OC in space, with green and blue hotties and tuff, missunderstood Klingon guys.

A mulit-crossover alternate reality movie? Ok, see my previous comments about appealing to the fans as opposed to making a movie.

And how do you get people from 3 diff time periods without seriously messing with continuity? And don't give me a 'no continuity in the MU!

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Originally Posted by Tricky

And how do you get people from 3 diff time periods without seriously messing with continuity? And don't give me a 'no continuity in the MU!

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For one, use only Captain Sulu from TOS. The rest is either in retirement (Sorry, Leonard) or busy with their own Emmy award-winning TV show (after seeing Denny Crane in a pink flamingo costume, I can no longer look at Kirk the same way). Can't mess with continuity there as you get to focus on Sulu rather than the Trek Trinity.

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Originally Posted by Tricky

Seriously, a SFA show wouldnt be to bad; the OC in space, with green and blue hotties and tuff, missunderstood Klingon guys.

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The last thing we need is to merge Melrose Space and Trek.

Use the Klingon in a post DS9 time period, may be 20 years after :rolleyes:

The problem with an ensemble multi-show cast is exactly what is being pointed out here.. you can't have them all, and no one would agree on which one's ! Everyone's got their own favourites! :)

I'm sure a comic was good because guess what.. comic book characters can be any age, don't age BUT can also look exactly like our favourite stars as they were.. You can't put Kirk, Spock, McCoy on the screen without them being a) pensioners pretending to be teenagers (shivvers) or b) somebody else... and then the fanboy arguments start! :D

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Originally Posted by Tobian

The problem with an ensemble multi-show cast is exactly what is being pointed out here.. you can't have them all, and no one would agree on which one's ! Everyone's got their own favourites! :)

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All I want is a good Trek story, not having to worry whether your favorite Trek character is not getting enough airtime, or not being cast in the first place. The franchise is on life support as it is. We can't be sweating all the details.

Select the characters we need for the story.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

I'm sure a comic was good because guess what.. comic book characters can be any age, don't age BUT can also look exactly like our favourite stars as they were.. You can't put Kirk, Spock, McCoy on the screen without them being a) pensioners pretending to be teenagers (shivvers) or b) somebody else... and then the fanboy arguments start! :D

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Actually, the comic was DS9 era, and had no connection (except setting wise and the return, of sorts, of Captain Pike). And I would NEVER want to see any of the originals try and play teenagers either. IF someone were to do this, it would have to be a new franchise, just like all the other shows.

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Originally Posted by Tricky

Actually, the comic was DS9 era, and had no connection (except setting wise and the return, of sorts, of Captain Pike). And I would NEVER want to see any of the originals try and play teenagers either. IF someone were to do this, it would have to be a new franchise, just like all the other shows.

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You want an Academy-style show that have nothing to do with Star Trek? Why not?

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Originally Posted by REG

So which is more important ... the story or actors' airtime?

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OK, bad writing on my side. What I meant was that if they keep busy with providing every character with airtime to pull the fans, we won't have a story. In most movies character and story is interlinked and not exchangable. Therefore I hope we won't have a crossover.

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Originally Posted by Evan van Eyk

OK, bad writing on my side. What I meant was that if they keep busy with providing every character with airtime to pull the fans, we won't have a story. In most movies character and story is interlinked and not exchangable. Therefore I hope we won't have a crossover.

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Then the story must come first.

If one or few of the actors complain they don't have enough airtime, cast last-minute replacements.

While I don't think we should outright pander to their ego's one thing any nrew Trek movie needs is.. the actual actors! If the franchise has anything to sell it's self on it's the actors who make up the crew, and it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater to get rid of them!

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Originally Posted by Tobian

While I don't think we should outright pander to their ego's one thing any nrew Trek movie needs is.. the actual actors! If the franchise has anything to sell it's self on it's the actors who make up the crew, and it would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater to get rid of them!

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Not just actual actors but the more visible stars. I mean to some fans, Seven is more appealing than B'Elanna, fair-haired blue-eyed Paris more to Kim. Kirk is more than Sulu or Uhura. Let's face it, there is a hierarchy of appeal when it comes to the franchise. It's the thing I don't believe in as a Trek fan, based on the fact that I'm a non-haole ethnic minority.

After reading this... I'm wondering if I was the only person in the entire universe to actually LIKE Nemisis.

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Originally Posted by Brite Dip Man

After reading this... I'm wondering if I was the only person in the entire universe to actually LIKE Nemisis.

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Yes you are.

Just kidding.

But seriously, you are.
;)

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Originally Posted by Brite Dip Man

After reading this... I'm wondering if I was the only person in the entire universe to actually LIKE Nemisis.

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Sorry, but if they hadn't introduced the Remans or the Picard clone, it wouldn't have ruined my love-hate passion for Romulans.

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Originally Posted by Brite Dip Man

After reading this... I'm wondering if I was the only person in the entire universe to actually LIKE Nemisis.

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Ahhh *headshaking* and you making such a good first impression... ;)

I'll guess I'll join the heretics movement and admit I liked Nemesis. Regardless of problems, the biggest of which is that in the episode "Tapestry" they bloody showed what Picard looked like as a cadet and he WASN'T freaking bald! That aside, despite its problems, Nemesis is still a billion times better than ST:V. I know that isn't much of a standard, but ST:V is my standard for god awful Trek.

Both are part of the Apocrypha of Star Trek, IMHO. And maybe I'll throw in VOY and ENT to boot.

I mean . . . alien of the week, huge giant ship, explosions . . . oh my!

To quote Foamy:
http://www.disturbedmono.frac.dk/Images/Foamy.jpg
OH, COME ON!

I expect better from my Trek. Explosions are fine . . . but story too, please!

Actually, the clone was bald due to cloneing error in the clone processing. These things happen. ;)

My personal favorite fan complaint of Nemisis was one guy I heard complaining about the 'vampiric' quality of the Remulans: He wondered if Joss Whedon (of Buffy fame) had ghost written the script, and when Troi was gonna start spouting witty remarks as she staked them. :rolleyes:

Still, as Trek enters the long dark night until another series or movie (how long was the stretch between TOS and ST:TMP?) comes around, i guess all us armchair producers are gonna argue over this stuff for a while.

I still think the Gorn Vs. NG would be the coolest.

jk

How about a followup to all the problems that Voyager caused in the Delta Quadrent... I mean they had to break quite a few heads, I could see all these disseperate groups banding together due to the "common" threat of the Federation and launching some sort of mission to the Alpha Quadrent.

Not an attack, not at first. However some AQ factions want the Delta Quad goodies (like Quantum Slipstream and stuff like that) and our Favorite People (either TNG or DS9) have to prevent this from turning into a huge interstellar war.


There. Its got plot, it'll patch some Voyager Holes, some explosions, some technobabble and it just might work.

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Originally Posted by Pericles

Regardless of problems, the biggest of which is that in the episode "Tapestry" they bloody showed what Picard looked like as a cadet and he WASN'T freaking bald!

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Hey. I and my receding hairline resent that. You thought he was as bald as Lex Luthor throughout his adolescence and the early part of his adulthood?

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Originally Posted by Tricky

My personal favorite fan complaint of Nemisis was one guy I heard complaining about the 'vampiric' quality of the Remulans...

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They're Remans. And as silly as their appearance -- though not the kind of reaction they're expecting -- their planet resides on the dark side of the system.

While they could have made the Remans better, I'd rather eliminate them from the STORY altogether, and just have Romulans vs. Romulans.

There is enough modern day treatoury within the Romulan system to make a story work. And then throw in a couple Klingon groups trying to lay claim to territory while the Romulans are busy kicking themselves around . . . and you got a good story.

Or what of that one group from Starfleet Command Two . . . now that would be something. Federationish with an evangelic streak.

For what else can bring mortal enemies together other then a common enemy . . . or an in ability to continue hostilities?

Sorry I am starting to move into the background story of ST:O. Which I have alot to say about.

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Originally Posted by JALU3

There is enough modern day treatoury within the Romulan system to make a story work. And then throw in a couple Klingon groups trying to lay claim to territory while the Romulans are busy kicking themselves around . . . and you got a good story.

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Nah, throwing in a couple of Klingons (gee, I hope you do not mean the Duras family or what's left of them) would have been nothing more than gratuitous, kinda like the Klingons in the "Broken Bow" episode of Enterprise.

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Originally Posted by REG

Nah, throwing in a couple of Klingons (gee, I hope you do not mean the Duras family or what's left of them) would have been nothing more than gratuitous, kinda like the Klingons in the "Broken Bow" episode of Enterprise.

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Please don't remind me of such bad storyline.

Well . . . if done correctly . . . it could work. But not necessary. What powers would move in for the spoils of a civil war? Breen? Ferengi? Others?

And who's to say that Tapestry era Picard wasn't wearing a 24 century hair piece back then. After the brush with death, he learned 2 valuable life lessons, the second of which was to not spend so much time preening and more time watching his back! lol