Simulation

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Another thing that we should factor is the Z plan, up and down, as space is three dimensional. How are we going to represent that? And how will we figure movement points that way?

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We could give each ship counter a Value equal to MU's along the Z axis.

The rest can be solved through the equation following equation

If the nebula wanted to go from point X=1 Y=2 and Z=3 to the Point X=4; Y=5 and Z= 8 it has to cross a Distance of 3²+3²+ 5² = 43 you just have extract the square root to get the distance =6,5 MU

(That is if my math has not failed me;) ;) )

+z is up -z is down.
movement point cost just the same as movement from hex to hex only those hexes won't be seen.

might want to mark the counters in some way for quick reference to show they are +Z or -Z axis.

but if you folks are really going to restart simming and keep it up you might as well instead of planning any sims right off, just go ahead and continue with determining how things are going to work(such as keep track of cloaked ships,
the +z -z movement track).

that way once you get it done, its done and all thats left is just determining whats going to be simmed.
(which is why suggested a yahoo group as all notes, maps, counters and the like could be kept in the files section).

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Originally Posted by Captain Otto

We could give each ship counter a Value equal to MU's along the Z axis.

The rest can be solved through the equation following equation

If the nebula wanted to go from point X=1 Y=2 and Z=3 to the Point X=4; Y=5 and Z= 8 it has to cross a Distance of 3²+3²+ 5² = 43 you just have extract the square root to get the distance =6,5 MU

(That is if my math has not failed me;) ;) )

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Oh slick . . . using that Pathagorian thereom on me . . . how can I forget something that I learned . . . oh over a decade ago!

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Originally Posted by wolfe

+z is up -z is down.
movement point cost just the same as movement from hex to hex only those hexes won't be seen.

might want to mark the counters in some way for quick reference to show they are +Z or -Z axis.

but if you folks are really going to restart simming and keep it up you might as well instead of planning any sims right off, just go ahead and continue with determining how things are going to work(such as keep track of cloaked ships,
the +z -z movement track).

that way once you get it done, its done and all thats left is just determining whats going to be simmed.
(which is why suggested a yahoo group as all notes, maps, counters and the like could be kept in the files section).

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The first simulation, is suppose to be simple enough, to test the basic rules, and figure out these things, as well as figure out what sub-rules need to be created . . . so it's a learning through process thing. However, it is good that you mention this . . . because we really do need to keep track of ALL these things . . . even down to did red shirts 5-22 die while they were manning rear torpedo launcher loader port? And other such things.

First off, just to let everyone know I have never participated in one of the on-line SD simulations, this is the first.

With that out of the way, I'm going to recommend against the +Z/-Z concept. It's a good idea, but it will make ship tracking a nightmare, and determining weapon ranges next to imposable.

I'd also like to ask "why not run the simulation here?", it can be and has been done before. Cpt. Lundgren has explained we could have a separate sub-forum with (if wanted or needed) limited access (those of us in this conversation most likely). Three threads would really be needed, one for basic information (the ships), one to run the simulation, and then an archive thread (it would be nice to see what was done).

Lastly, have we agreed on the first simulation - 1 Federation Nebula-class with up to 2 Danube-class Runabouts vs. a flight of 3 Dominion Attack Ships?
Again just for simplicity ;), I'm going to suggest a base line Nebula (I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I haven't run a SD battle in a while... a long while). We can always up the ante in later simulations (hmm... Battle of Chin'taka anyone :eek: )

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First off, just to let everyone know I have never participated in one of the on-line SD simulations, this is the first.

With that out of the way, I'm going to recommend against the +Z/-Z concept. It's a good idea, but it will make ship tracking a nightmare, and determining weapon ranges next to imposable.

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This goes doubly for me, we will be having enough troubles keeping track of everything.

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I'd also like to ask "why not run the simulation here?", it can be and has been done before. Cpt. Lundgren has explained we could have a separate sub-forum with (if wanted or needed) limited access (those of us in this conversation most likely). Three threads would really be needed, one for basic information (the ships), one to run the simulation, and then an archive thread (it would be nice to see what was done).

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I agree creating a forum outside is certainly not really necessary (even more so if we want to attract more players)

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Lastly, have we agreed on the first simulation - 1 Federation Nebula-class with up to 2 Danube-class Runabouts vs. a flight of 3 Dominion Attack Ships?
Again just for simplicity , I'm going to suggest a base line Nebula (I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I haven't run a SD battle in a while... a long while). We can always up the ante in later simulations (hmm... Battle of Chin'taka anyone )

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As with me i never done a full fledged SD battle, so IMHO we need some practice before we start more advanced SD-Battles. But yes i think we -largly- have agreed upon that scenario.

We could call it "Baptism of fire" or something similar lofty:D :D

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Originally Posted by Pheonix

First off, just to let everyone know I have never participated in one of the on-line SD simulations, this is the first.

With that out of the way, I'm going to recommend against the +Z/-Z concept. It's a good idea, but it will make ship tracking a nightmare, and determining weapon ranges next to imposable.

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Originally Posted by CPT

This goes doubly for me, we will be having enough troubles keeping track of everything.

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On here I disagree . . . although it means doing math to figure out each and every single distance . . . if we use an Excel spreadsheet with the formula that ALL of us learned during Geomerty 1&2 (yes here comes that Pythagorean theorem again . . . ahh!) . . . it's just a matter of plugging in the Distance to and height from object A to B to figure out the distance . . . that should be simple enough. And the only time we will be doing this is during the firing phase of combat.

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Originally Posted by CPT

I agree creating a forum outside is certainly not really necessary (even more so if we want to attract more players)

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Agreed . . . but can we create a forum where only members can post . . . but everyone can watch . . . and a seperate thread . . . where they can post . . . like a peanut gallery.

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And the only time we will be doing this is during the firing phase of combat

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On that I have to disagree, we have to consider having Starships move along the Z-axis as well.

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but can we create a forum where only members can post . . . but everyone can watch . . . and a seperate thread . . . where they can post . . . like a peanut gallery.

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Nice Idea, something like Sareks Lounge...

I thought non-members can't even read what is going on in there.

Futhermore . . . would it not make sence, since we're dealing with a 3d environment . . . that we should provide a 3d game space?

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I thought non-members can't even read what is going on in there.

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Oops, youre right.

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Futhermore . . . would it not make sence, since we're dealing with a 3d environment . . . that we should provide a 3d game space?

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Counterquestion: How could we achieve this?

X,Y,Z positions . . . and using the pythagorean theroum for distance measuring.

I got you wrong, I thought you were talking about a visual reference.
Like a 3 d Map...

Oh GOD no . . . that would be way to complicated . . . unless someone has a holo projector as prefered by any good 24th century CAG ;)
No, I was thinking about a box on the lower left hand corner of the object stating it's positive or negative in comparisan to the local plain of travel.

Good, I think this should be no problem - that is until we start scrolling the map. then we have to change the Coordinates as well.

But this i think is neither too complicated.;) ;)

As for quardanents . . . we shouldn't scroll . . . there should be a point in the local area map that is 0,0,0 . . . and everything is around that point . . . even if we end up with 100, 500, -25. That way we can continuelly create a track history of travel . . . see what tactics were used . . . and how those decisions had an effect in the course of the engagement.

This in Turn makes a map unfeasable.

If we end up with Coordiates to far apart we would need a microscope;)

But then again amap really isn't neccessary at all.

The Nebula should start at 0,0,0 as it is the target of the attackers.

A Map helps, but is not necessary. Plus, it provides sexy visuals for the Peanut Gallary.

But why does it have to be over sized . . . as the combat moves . . . so does the map, but the coordinates remain the same.

For instance . . . does the Prime meridean move on maps.google.com when you move the map area that you are looking at? No :)

Now for areas within a solar system . . . a map is dire important . . . because you have to figure in tracks of intrasteller objects, both naturally occuring and artificial.

Your right with the maps :)


What else should we settle befor we start playing.

In here not much . . . but in real life a whole lot.

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Originally Posted by Captain Otto

Your right with the maps :)


What else should we settle befor we start playing.

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Not all positions have been filled.

Is everyone still on-board for doing this?

The last issue brought up was "Not all positions have been filled", that was last week.

So, going over the thread:
Captain Otto requested the Nebula if nobody else wanted it, Dominion Attack Ship otherwise. (still up for the Nebula?).
JALU3 requested one of the Dominion Attack Ships
First of Two has not requested anything yet.

We've worked out the bases of the mapping... we have right?

I've also gone over available information from the Akira vs. D'Deridex battle (made it a closed/sticky thread for ease of reference), and found an interesting concept if we cannot find more players. Divide the players up between the different sides. At the moment 2 players would get all Star Fleet assets, and 2 players would get all the Dominion assets.

I'll be talking to Cpt. Lundgren about the setting up the private forum some time today (maybe today the time difference is making things rough).

Are there any other details that need to be worked out?

I'm still in for the Nebula although i already considered Dominion Tactics.

 

No I wont tell you my ideas, no way!

As for the Maps I think we're ready to give it a try... just to look how it works out.
The only things we still have to consider are minor e.g we have to agree on a way to determine initative. Personalize the Ships and determine Starting positions.

I think that would be all, at least for now:D

Well to that end

 

Don't forget ramming IS a viable tactic ;)

Initiative: I need to brush up on my SD rules. We'll talk about it.
Personalize the Ships: I thought we were going straight out the book? Simplicity and all.
Starting positions: Working on that. We've done the planet scenario, I was thinking near by asteroids or maybe a KoBo-like distress call (fake or real) situation. That should get the ball rolling and all the ships in the same area.

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Personalize the Ships: I thought we were going straight out the book? Simplicity and all.

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Well i meant giving at least the Nebula and the other Fed ships a name and giving the ships commander a certain amount of Courage Points and not to forget, (because its important for initiative) we have to assign values for the CO's Starship Tacits skill and their INT.

As for the Dominion Tactics

It seems you can read my mind:D :D

I wouold be willing to play whatever side needed. I am quite familiar with the SD rules, although like everyone else, the movement system will be new.

Charles

Welcome aboard ImperialOne, Pick a ship.


I forgot to ask you guy, did you just want to do this here in the normal SD forum or in an exclusive forum?

I think this forum would be fine.

I too can take the Nebula or one of the Dominion attack fighters, whatever Captain Otto prefers.

Charles

Well as i said if no one else wants the Nebula.

So you'll take the Nebula and I take a Fighter.

By the way...

welcome aboard:D

Sounds good, I assume its the Nebula stats from SRM 1?

Charles

just a clarification, is this a moderated combat where the moderator can interpret the rules. Since SpaceDock is more of a sim than a balanced wargame, I foresee some ambiguities when we play.

Yes, the Nebula on page 80 of the SRM-1 with the sensor pod option. However are we using the up-rated or standard version? The Dominion Attack Ships are on page 160 of SRM-1.

Ship players; Well I haven't heard back from First of Two or JALU3 yet, but with the number of players we may be looking at, both of you get the Nebula as part of the Federation Team.

Clarification: moderator = me

so, what are the forces being arrayed here? how many Nebulas?

The Scenario we agreed upon pitted a Nebula Cruiser and two Runabouts against a force of three Dominion Attack ships.

Jalu3 voluntered for one of the Dominion Ships, If i recall correctly.

I at least take whatever is needed although in the Fed team i would take both runabouts if we were short on players.

that is what I thought... for the Nebula, standrad or uprated version?

Like Phoenix said we still have to agree about that point, but i would say we should use the uprated version.

you are correct, I did volunteer for one of the Dominion Attack Ships. As for the nebula and its complement . . . The nebula should either be weapon pod, with no runabouts, or a standard nebula with runabouts.

The standard with the runabouts would be more "realistic". I can't recall the earlier part of the thread, but why are we using the Nebula?

Charles

Well we gravitated towards the Nebula for no special reason.

I proposed several ships and Jalu3 picked up the Nebula...thats all.

Hi everyone (I see there has been talk as I worked on this, Ehh anyway),
Things are getting set up. But it will take me a bit longer to post the ship stats, I can't just cut-n-paste. In other words the PDF document is protected. Cpt. Lundgren has set up a joinable forum not yet displayed. That the two of us are working on... alright he's working, I'm in the way with suggestions :)

We have the following people confirmed:
Captain Otto: Federation side
ImperialOne: Nebula
JALU3: Dominion Attack Fighter

I haven't heard back from First of Two yet or any of the other people I sent PM's to asking if they wanted to join.

I've taken the liberty of coming up with information on the ships. If anyone has any requests for changes, please let me know. I have no problem with making changes this early in the process.
Federation Forces:

• U.S.S. Columbia NCC-60586, Nebula-class starship
• U.S.S. North Buffalo NCC-73679, Danube-class runabout
• U.S.S. Stockholms NCC-75918, Danube-class runabout

(The Nebula is named in memory of the Space Shuttle Columbia. NCC registry derived by averaging the known other Nebula class registries. Both Danubes are named for the rivers running through Steve Long's and Magnus Lundgren's home towns. The NCC number is derived from the Latitude/Longitude of the same towns preceded by the number 7... Lucky number 7, the little ships might need it.)

Dominion Forces:

• 02-Gamma-F-57301944, Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
• 02-Gamma-F-57301972, Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
• 02-Gamma-F-57301986, Jem'Hadar Attack Ship

(I just used Steve's scheme from The Dominion Wars Sourcebook to ID the Dominion ships and a random number generating polyhedron. For simplicity we can use the last 2 digits to reference them 44, 72 and 86 or by a color code established with the counters. If anyone has a better idea here I'm open to talk about it.)

Captain Name/species/history (if any)/information is the reasonability of the players, The Dominion Vorta should be easy however. Statistic wise, I think we could just pick a number as long as both sides are equal in that regard.

• Attribute: 4
• Relevant skill level: 4 or 5 (plus the recommended number in the ship write-up)
• Courage Points: 6 for the fleet commander, 4 for other ship commanders.

If I'm missing anything or you have opinions that differ, let me know. I haven't yet decided up-rated or not yet on the Nebula, I'm going to compare number to see if it's warranted. The scenario is currently a WIP that will get posted here for your approval and/or suggestions sometime later this week.

I just hope I'm up to moderating this.

Looks good to me really nice actually, with an eye for detail.