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A quick summary on the scope of this terrible news:
Both towers of the world trade center were hit by hijacked airplanes.
There was an explosion at the Pentagon.
A hijacked plane crashed 80 miles south of Pittsbugh which MAY have been trying to hit Camp David.
Scary, tragic times.
Christ guys, I'm so sorry for you and hope none of you from this site were physically hurt (though I know you're hurting inside anyhow). I hope we find out who did this and you nail them. Also I hope your loved ones are safe.
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"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest
This is an act of War. Lets see how the present occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania deals with it.
If it is a Terrorist GROUP act, no country will claim connection with them for fear of retaliation. The question is what will we do? A French report just stated that a group with the name "Palestine" in the title claimed it, but this is not confirmed . Will we lash out at whatever country the terrorist organization fronts for? Even if the country (Arafat already denounced this if the above is true) distances themselves from the act?
Take off my Poli Sci hat:
From a pure power relationship perspective, regardless of Constitutional or Humanitarian feelings, we cannot allow this. Look what has happened in Israel with suicide bombings on schoolchildren, followed by fingerpointing and protests of Israeli retaliation. No half-ass solutions must happen here. I am afraid that a major event must - I repeat MUST - take place in order to warn off any and all future attempts at this. Maximum violence, maximum bodycount, as immediate as possible without being half-cocked. A major show of force is necessary, designed to make sure they (whoever 'they' are and I am not convinced of anything) never ever try it again. Unfortunately, If some domestic terrorist group did it, the same rule needs to apply which means some nasty things within our own shores might have to go down. I therefore pray it is not something domestic.
Mad Political Scientist
[This message has been edited by Publius (edited 09-11-2001).]
Not quite 80 miles more like 30, but I never thought about Camp David.
And yes, the UK is also on high alert - Canary Wharf and several other major financial buildings have been evacuated, just in case the target is world trade and not just the USA.
Christ I hope this doesn't turn into WWIII. It's just been on the news here that another plane is suspected to have been hijacked and there are F16s up trying to intercept it. I hope they manage it.
I've just heard there were passengers on the planes as well. What kind of sick bastards are these guys?
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"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest
To any late comers follow pleaseQuote:
Oh no, no, NO!!! Please make it stop, tell me it's all a nightmare!
http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/mad.gifThe TV is showing pictures of people celebrating in Palestine. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/mad.gif
I feel like crying, and yet I am a few thousands kilometers away of all this and know no one involved.
I wish I was a believer so I could pray.
Cant chat, works firewall gets in the way.Quote:
Originally posted by mactavish:
I've just heard that the UK is on high alert now as well... true?
I CAN Confirm that the UK Armed forces are at equal readiness than during the gulf war, regulars are preparing for mobilisation and the Territorials are on 24 hour mobilisation alert.
Thats from my army friends.
They also tell me that NORAD has gone to DefCon2, please tell me this isn't true... Im leaving the office now, I may visit my family tonight...
DanG
Apparently, every plane that has gone down was a hijacked airliner. That's the two to the WTC, the at least one in the Pentagon, the one attacking Camp David, and perhaps the missing plane.
According to ABC news, the "missing plane" is missing. Nobody's confirmed that it's been hijacked, yet.
I really hope that the Palestinians weren't behind this. There will be some serious bloodshed if they were.
As a note, their evacuating all the Federal Centers in TN, and the Red Cross has just asked for blood donations.
Alex
Our rapid disaster response teams are also geared up and ready to get to the States ASAP if needed. A Palestinian group is indeed said to have claimed responsibility, but please don't take on the whole country for this. US sanctions after the Gulf didn't hurt the people responsible for the war, but did create vast resentment towards the States among the innocent majority of the population. Find the group who did it and leave them in little pieces as a warning (and just hope they don't wind up as being seen as martyrs).
DefCon 2?! Please tell me that's not the one right down from Nuke Time? Oh shit this is getting worse...
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"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest
My Mother who is a State Worker here in PA is home, they evacuated all State buildings. I am sue that soon the schools will start to close.
Well, I propose a moratorium on philosophical dissection and introspection for at least 24 hours on this.
I reckon our American friends need a chance to blow off some steam and say whatever they like...
Vent away, my Yank friends - you have my thoughts and my sympathy. I just hope this doesn't blow up in all our faces.
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"Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it is our destiny to return home..."
I just heard that there are still at least 4 hijacked aircraft still "unaccounted for."
Hi everone;
I'm what you call a "passive" member here sort of... I've been following the boards for a few years but only posted a few times with different accounts (this time I'm writing DOWN the password!!)... Anyways...
I find it strange that within all the turmoil I turn to these boards to check out others'opinions... even for matters which have nothing to do with sci-fi or rpgs.
Well first of all, we know next to nothing. I remember back in 1995 I was watching CNN casually when they announced that the Oklahoma fed building was bombed. Within the hour lots of people started blaming arabs... turns out that they had nothing to do with what happened... (although I don't buy for a minute the McVey story...)
Let's not rush things here... You people need to secure your assets, regroup and tighten up. You'll think about retaliation later.
So far, everyone points the finger at the palestinians... Well makes sense right? They are being oppressed by Israel... and who is by far the biggest backer of Israel? The United States. Israel has tighter security, and hitting the US would have more impact anyways, so the US would be a logical choice...
except...
What next? What is the point of hitting government and civilian targets and causing mass suffering? Revenge? Maybe... But what will be the effect? The American public, like the rest of Western nations have become complascent (sp?), weak, soft, even decadent in some areas (just look at the trash being shown on the telly...), so maybe those terrorists thought they could strike the US and only get a slap on the wrist in return.
Did they want to push the US public to pressure the American govt in pulling out of mideast affairs? Unlikely, the US IS weak (sorry my American friends... but you make take sollace into the fact that if the US is weak than Canada is totally gay), but even there I don't think they would have bowed to that kind of pressure...
What if now instead they have awakened a sense of collective rage in the US public? What do they gain from this? If in the past the US public mildly condemned Israel for its treatment of the Palestinian population, now it will scream bloody murder and take a "let them die" attitude? What if NOW no-one cares if Israel exterimnate the arabs?
Who does it benefit? The Palestinians? I wouldn't think so... but I know that somewhere a group of people must be quite happy because now they'll be able to do whatever they want, as ugly as it might be.
I dunno, just a theory... I just can't see the logic in having the Arabs attack the US just for "revenge" or to "hurt" the US... seems almost childish... but then again!
Well again, we don't have all the facts (will we ever?) so it's no time for wild speculations; we need to overcome our desire for retribution and focus on improving our security and then investigate. It won't be easy and it will take time.
As for retribution...
What do you want to do? Nuke the Mideast? Strike which country? Iran, Syria, Iraq? What then? You'll also contaminate (and thus punish along) Israel or Turkey, thus invloving countries that may have NOTHING to do with this? Bomb cities by conventional means? To what end? Will you really punish the terrorists that way? And then again, the question is, were those terrorists backed by a particular country? If so, then it could be an act of war and then the US could declare war... but what if we're dealing with a trans-national terrorist group?
I'll bet that whoever did this will only get a slap on the wrist; Western nations nowadays are too weak to stomach handing out real punishments to its enemies (just think for instance what Nazi Germany would have done to whoever did this...)
My personnal wish of course, would be to make the bastards pay. Whoever it is...
ok, one mile from NORAD, we are not on DEFCON any thing to my knowledge, we are at ThreatCON Charly (DEFCON 1=peace, 5=All out war by the way) I don't know what the ThreatCON top end is, however.
The thing is this could have happened in my back yard...Air Force Academy, NORAD, 4 other major military bases within 10 miles of my house...
Phoenix...
Threat CON Charly one below top Delta...correction we are now at Delta...max national security...god help us all
Phoenix...
[This message has been edited by Phoenix (edited 09-11-2001).]
Just heard here that 3 planes are still unaccounted for. Thanks for clearing up the DefCon scale by the way - I was a tad worried there. Arafat has just been on the radio here condemning the attack. I agree with Angry Cartman though, you want to be very sure that when you come down like the Sword of Damocles on these bastards (which I fully support you in doing) you've got the right people. Let it cool - remember what Klingons say about revenge. I'm not even there, and I want to find these people and rip their throats out, but right now I don't even know for sure who they are. Yeah, there are a number of likely suspects, but let's figure this through when the terror's over.
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"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest
The news is compairing this to Peirl Horbor now...A day of infamy...there WILL be hell to pay!
Phoenix...thinking much clearer now
Just heard that Canadian Forces Bases are on "Heightened" alert.
I agree too - as revolting as it may seem, we have to wait until we are sure who is behind this before dismembering the bastards.
The worst that could happen would be a random retaliation, falling on innocent people. Then the beings behind this monstrosity (sp?) would have won twice.
We have to keep a clear head (however angry we may be), because random rage is exactly the state of mind these animals wanted us to be in.
We can and must claim revenge (I'm still speaking for humanity at large, not only americans) and not let whoever is responsible for that get away with a tap on the wrist - but we simply can't point anyone yet, until the culprit has been formerly identified.
Now, I wouldn't blame anyone anymore for yelling his need for revenge - we all yell when we are wounded.
While not interested in revenge, per se, I definitely want to see justice done.
I certainly hope that a decisive, really brutal attack is carried out against the perpetrators, but I also hope that that doesn't happen until it's been confirmed.
mactavish [way] out.
From Adam Dickstein in New York City, NY USA...
I will give a more detailed account some other time, but suffice to say it is very unnerving. I live some 30 city blocks (barely just over a mile) from the incident at the World Trade Center. I was shaving and getting ready for work as my fiancé' was having breakfast, when we heard a low flying jet and then a strong but somewhat muffled boom.
Within moments the local news announced that a plane had struck one of the two "Twin Towers" that until a few hours ago made up the World Trade Center. We watched in horror as a live feed showed a tiny black dot and then a second explosion as another plane struck the other tower.
To any and all those viewing this message, a wish of safety and peace to those who have family or friends in any of the effected area.
AD
Heads up two flights inbound from Europe are not responding to radio!!! Oh shit!!!
From Adam Dickstein in New York City, NY USA...
I will give a more detailed account some other time, but suffice to say it is very unnerving. I live some 30 city blocks (barely just over a mile) from the incident at the World Trade Center. I was shaving and getting ready for work as my fiancé' was having breakfast, when we heard a low flying jet and then a strong but somewhat muffled boom.
Within moments the local news announced that a plane had struck one of the two "Twin Towers" that until a few hours ago made up the World Trade Center. We watched in horror as a live feed showed a tiny black dot and then a second explosion as another plane struck the other tower.
To any and all those viewing this message, a wish of safety and peace to those who have family or friends in any of the effected area.
AD
What is happening in Colorado and Cincinnati?
For anybody who hasn't seen it on the TV, here's an online video showing the second crash into the World Trade Center, followed by the complete collapse of both buildings.
http://cfapp.rockymountainnews.com/v...?VID=0911trade
A lot of people are viewing this, so if you don't connect the first time, try again later.
-- Eris
I am shocked about the tragedy and that I can do nothing about it. I wish luck to all those affected, and strength as well. I feel pity for those who have people in that area and hope they and you are safe.
I beg that this is not the end for the world as we know it. I fear that can lead to a new world war.
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"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI
www.farrealms.de
[This message has been edited by Evan van Eyk (edited 09-11-2001).]
U.S. government official Richard Holbrooke just stated that any nation harboring, aiding, or abetting anyone involved in this action against the United States should be considered an enemy of the United States.
This bodes ill for the fate of nations that have a history of harboring terrorists.
mactavish out.
I just got in from work after listening on the radio, what can I say thhat has not been said already. My thoughs are with our American friends.
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Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges
"In time of war, the law falls silent"
Admiral Ross to Dr Bashir
Did you see the television images from the West Bank of all of the carnival celebrations by the Palestinians, all the while Arafat et al are professing their profound grief and shock on behalf of the Palestinian people?
Other than the Taliban statement, I've seen nothing from the middle east.
Here in Colorado, Nothing much. Security certainly has been tightened, but I have yet to see or hear a single aircraft, nice and quite (I live about 6 blocks from the airport) no fighters, nothing out of the norm, at least on the out side.Quote:
Originally posted by Kaiddin:
What is happening in Colorado and Cincinnati?
Phoenix...
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The more you disapprove,
The more fun it is for me.
I see that the Afghanistani government is now distancing themselves from the terrorists they harbor and support. If Bin Ladin is responsible (that is an if, not jumping to conclusions) and the country of Afghanistan has allowed him to plan, execute, fund, harbor and order this act of terrorism and others from within their borders, perpare to reap the whirlwind.
Good Lord! This is abhorring!
http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/eek.gif I can hardly comprehend this.
My thoughts and sympathies for the New Yorkers and all others who lost someone in this vile attack.
A shocked Robbert.
Newsworld said that there were "incidents" in Colorado and Cincinnati. Stating that NORAD in Colorado may have also been a target.
I have no idea what is in Cincinnati.
I hope that this was a reporting error
Still more footage of celebrations over there. Oh yeah, just warms your heart, don't it?
A statement was just said I think hits the nail on the head. This woman asked "Looking at their celebrations, do they hate us this much?" To which the reply was simply, "Yes"
Protius - what are you watching?
We've been flipping through the major networks, CBS, NBC, we don't have cable.
I also agree about the Tom Clancy remark... It's eerie...
Everyone around says they're surprised, shocked, etc;
I'm not. Anyone who reads the specialized press and who actually LISTENS to the military experts will recognize that this was a very plausible scenario.
as for the "whodunnit??" part; I'm surprised that Bin Laden is in total denial; usually he was always the first up to claim responsability for such acts (albeit on a much smaller scale) in the past. Maybe he's scared shitless (very unlikely) or he's got pressure from some rogue nation to shut up in order to throw confusion around.
As for me, I have a theory... I don't think you guys understood where I was going with my previous post. I'll be more conspicuous: WHO WILL BENEFIT FROM THE HATE (...justified or not) THAT THE US PUBLIC NOW FEELS TOWARDS PALESTINIANS/ARABS/MUSLIMS/whatever?? I have a very particular country in mind. As I say, they must be estatic right now, that's exactly the kind of break they need...
but hey, it's just a theory...