Publius,
Its true the smoke cloud could be seen from orbit. They showed the "sat pics" on our Ottawa Regional news.
Apparently the evac of the Empire State Building was false. According to CBS news broadcast.
------------------
In the Praetors Name!
Printable View
Publius,
Its true the smoke cloud could be seen from orbit. They showed the "sat pics" on our Ottawa Regional news.
Apparently the evac of the Empire State Building was false. According to CBS news broadcast.
------------------
In the Praetors Name!
As a patriot, I was saddened and in shock when I had first heard of the terrorist attacks, but that sadness and shock quickly turned to anger and outrage when the Pentagon was attacked. The reason for this is because of the efficiency of the perpetuators.
I feel that Arab-Americans should not be targets for discrimination or prejudice just because of the ethnicity.
Although I back the President 100%, I do feel that Congress should declare war on all terrorists and the countries that harbor them. The reason why I feel this way, is because this was an act of war and should be dealt with tenfold.
On a side note, it was extremely heartening when I heard that pro-America supporters in Berlin, Germany were holding a vigil for Americans that more than likely have lost their lives in this vicious attack on our sovereignty! Germany, along with Canada and the U.K.: its nice to know who our real allies are. Every time I think about what those Germans did, I get misty-eyed.
Because as far as I'm concerned, those countries that have harbored terrorists for years (such as the PLO), when I heard that Arafat condemned the attack, I feel that it is just lip-service.
I have yet to hear those nations that these terrorists are located (such as Hezbollah, etc) cracking down on these abominations to humanity!
------------------
"Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of war..."
-Chang (ST VI)
[This message has been edited by Treefrog (edited 09-12-2001).]
To the conspirators of this act, we will prevail.
To the supporters of this act, we will prevail.
To the one who ridicule us, we will prevail.
To the one who pity us, we will prevail.
For we are Americans
And we will prevail.
You brought this violence to us once.
We shall return upon you a thousandfold.
------------------
Anyhoo, just some random thoughts...
[This message has been edited by REG (edited 09-12-2001).]
Just wanted to drop in and give an update. I think George W will end up finishing the war his dad started oh so many years ago.
This just came over the wire on the World Tribune:
Israeli intelligence: Iraq financed attacks
GEOSTRATEGY-DIRECT.COM
Wednesday, September 12, 2001
Iraq recruited Saudi billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden and his Islamic allies to carry out the suicide attacks around the United States, according to Israeli intelligence.
Israeli officials and intelligence analysts said the suicide hijackings that downed the World Trade Center and destroyed parts of the Pentagon was too large an operation for any one group. The analysts said the operation was also too big even for a coalition of Islamic terrorists headed by Saudi billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden is accused of masterminding the bombings of the U.S. embassies in eastern African in 1998.
Intelligence sources briefed the Cabinet of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on late Tuesday, hours after the catastrophe in New York and Washington. The sources were quoted as telling the Cabinet that a Middle East government was probably the sponsor of the attack.
The most likely sponsor for such an attack, the sources said, is Iraq. The Baghdad regime has long maintained an alliance with Bin Laden and Islamic groups.
You can read the rest of it at:
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...reaking_1.html
The man will just not go away!!!
Shoulder-to-shoulder my friend.Quote:
Originally posted by Treefrog:
On a side note, it was extremely heartening when I heard that pro-America supporters in Berlin, Germany were holding a vigil for Americans that more than likely have lost their lives in this vicious attack on our sovereignty! Germany, along with Canada and the U.K.: its nice to know who our real allies are. Every time I think about what those Germans did, I get misty-eyed.
------------------
In the Praetors Name!
The more this post continues the more weird it gets. Bush declars war on Mass. This may have been a joke but it is very sad.
The more evidence that is surfacing the more sick this becomes. The USA will do something that the rest of the world will feel. In one way or another!
This is going to be the single largest act of terrorism in history, and on American soil. Justice will be done. Am I mad? Damn straight. And everyone else should be.
Finally terrorism has hit home for me and it will take a united front to totally defeat it. The countries that support it are just as guilty. the perpitrators will be brought to justice!!
So maybe this is not the best thing to have them die for what their government did? Is this really what war means? Does war really have to be like it has been in WW2? WW1 had very few civilians die in comparison to WW2. Maybe with the current weapons and tactics, maybe it is not entirely necessary to have so many innocent people die. Maybe this is how we can show how much superior to those terrorists we are, who mostly strike innocent victims.
Well ... just hoping ...
By the way ... I've been reading references to "(whirl)wind" now and then ... could someone clarify? Is this akin to "tacking into the wind"?
------------------
Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)
Jeusus Dave,Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Biggins:
Hey guys, my boss's husband is one of those listed as missing from the Pentagon. Keep them in y'all's porayers, will you?
Of course...please let us know as soon as there is any news.
All my prayers...
------------------
Captain Zymmer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit Star Trek:Lexington at;
http://www.usslexington.net
=-=-=-=-=-=
No it is something like "Those who sow the wind, prepare to reap the whirlwind".Quote:
Originally posted by Calcoran:
By the way ... I've been reading references to "(whirl)wind" now and then ... could someone clarify? Is this akin to "tacking into the wind"?
Not sure the exact wording or who actually said it.
Oh ... I get it. Thanks Kaiddin http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif.
Aedh Rua, thank you for most eloquently stating my opinion.
Dave, good to hear you're ok. Prayers are on their way.
___
Anyone have any news on Boston? One of my co-workers said that one of her family said there was some sort of raid on a hotel. Darn fourth hand information. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif
Alex
Just thought that you would like to know that Ireland has declared Friday as a day of National Mourning. All government buildings and operations will close, as will most retail and commercial businesses. There will be a memoral service in St Patrick's Cathedral for those who lost their lives in New York and Washington, to be attended by the Irish President and Government.
Similarly, in the UK a memorial service is to be held today in St Paul's Cathedral, attended by the Queen and the British Government. There will also be a special Changing of the Guard at Buckingham Palace which will be performed to the American National Anthem (which is a first, let me tell you).
I have heard that Ireland's lead may be followed by the rest of the European Union.
Please rest assured that you are not alone in this.
Regards
Martin
Kaiddin,
On the other thread you posted;
In the City of God there will be a great thunder.
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos.
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
Do you happen to know what Century and Quatrain this is?
------------------
In the Praetors Name!
I thin this Iraque thing is a fake, cause I heard nothing on news, not here in gErmany, nor on CNN. So that was probably false, but who knows.
------------------
"I am a great one for rushing in where angels fear to tread." - Cpt. Kirk, Star Trek VI
www.farrealms.de
Friday is a day of mourning in germany too. And today the german brokers in Frankfurt, on their own, stopped traiding totaly for five minutes as an act of mourning.
There are currently a "thousand heroes" at work to search for survivors. Hope they find some. Maybe another Lengede wonder[1] on a greater scale does happen.
I hope that in this cool heads prevail and the politicans do some thinking before leaping to both conclusions and decissions. Act to harsh and you play into the hands of the terrorists. After all:
- [li]It serves them if Muslims / Arabs become hunted by the public
[li]It serves them if the US government clamps down too hard on internal security
[li]It serves them if countries drop into isolation
[li]It serves them if blind attacks hit the wrong target (as it has happened before in Sudan)
As hard as it may be, the USA needs to step back, see the whole picture and than use precise and legal means to deal with this. Get the proof that will stand in a courtroom either in the US or Europe[2] and after that, get the person(s) any way you like. The current "we think he did it" stuff is dangerous and may blind people of other possible groups that did it.[3]
The US reaction of "if you are not my friend, you are the enemy" is wrong and potentially dangerous. One can condem the action of the terrorists (civilians are never a legal or acceptable target[5]) yet still dislike the US. The is a difference between the state and it's inhabitants[4] I feel sorry for the dead but that does not mean I think the US can do no wrong.
As for people dancing in the street, well this are vocal minorities. They make good news[5] and pictures, so they show up. The grieving majority does not. The five pillars of Islam are: The statement of believe, The daily prayers, The travell to Mekka, The feasting and giving a tithe for the poor. It is basically an open and carring religion that only some fanatics but a bad light on. Again, fanatics make for pictures, silent prayers don't.[6]
Also remember what they say about freedom fighters and terrorists. It is always a matter of the side you are on. Ask my grandfather or my saxophon teacher about russian partisans or the french resistance and you hear "murderous bastards" and "terrorists". Not to compare those valiant persons with the monsters from 9/September but it is a think to remember if some arabian source "parties". From their point of view, those bastards are heros that struck against the "big foe"
A few years ago I saw "The Siege" and argued with friends that the ending was Hollywood bullshit. The situation is similar on a broader scale. Don't let it escalate as it happened in this piece of fiction. This time, the terrorist might play it smart. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif
Michael
Hope they rescue some more people. And do justice, not revenge.
--
[1] They found survivors of a major mining cave in when nobody did hope for it any more and got them out.
[2] Continental European courts have no jury so it's a bit harder to convince the judge since you have only facts, not emotions
[3] Germany had to situations last year, a bomb at a tram station that killed russian imigrants of jewish believes and a drowned child. Every one screamed "The Nazies did it". At least this time, they had no hand in it but at lot of investigation effort was directed there at first, ignoring other possibilities
[4] As seen in East germany. Or other "east block" states like Poland
[5] In germany we have some roleplayers that disguise as Orks etc. and do Life roleplaying. If you believe the press, they are the majority of roleplayer. In reality they are a tiny minority (Unless you consider the Bundeswehr Twilight:2000 live) But they generate pictures. Persons on a table rolling dice don't
[6] Remember that Christians and Jews are not! un-believers to the Muslim. We are Script-Possesers and the bible / tora are holy books for the Muslim. It's just that we did not make the final step in believes.
Michael:
A really good post, well grounded in facts, which is just the thing we need right now IMHO. I second every word of it!
-Andreas
I can't say I have. Mostly, I have heard of violence against Moslem churches, schools, and community centers, and Moslem people largely cowering in their homes for fear of becoming targets for their pissed-off neighbors.Quote:
Originally posted by mactavish:
P.S. On a side note, I've heard that portions of the Arabic population of Dearborn, Michigan have been acting much like many of those in Palestine, cheering and celebrating the attack against the United States. Has anyone else seen or heard any such thing?
Sad, really, and unworthy of us.
I mean, if the IRA had done this to us, would we attack Catholic Churches? If the people who did this were Muslims (as it appears) that does not change the fact that they do not speak for all Muslims, and many Muslims are also Americans and want to go kick their asses.
BTW: I'm comfortable with this having been Criminal Acts. If they were instead Acts Of War, none of the damage is covered by insurance. Even life insurance usually doesn't cover death due to Acts Of War.
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
Not only did I hear that report, I saw camcorder footage that proves it. (Yes, someone on the ISS took a camcorder.)Quote:
Originally posted by Publius:
P.S. The plume of smoke from New York was apparently visible from the space station in orbit. I do not know how accurate this is, I heard it on the local news which means it is probably old news and just as likely to be incorrect.
------------------
You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
Folks, you are going to lovr this, I just got this from one of my other groups that I yap on line with, it is from Canada our Neighbor to the North...
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable
editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as
printed in the Congressional Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the
most
generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted
out of
the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars
and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today
paying
even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
who
propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
hurries in
to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by
tornadoes.
Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars!
into
discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing
about
the decadent, warmongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any
other
country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly
them? Why
do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman
on the
moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You
talk
about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.
You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -!
not
once, but several times - and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
store
window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not
pursued
and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are
breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa
at home
to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down
through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania
Railroad
and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old
caboose. Both
are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
other
people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else
raced to
the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during
the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
tired
of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing
with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their
nose at
the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope
Canada is
not one of those."
Stand proud, America!
------------------
Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
"First Away Team Mission... Beaming down to a Hostile Planet... Captain Kirk is leading the Away Team... I am wearing a red shirt... No Fear!!! Unknown Crew Member
NOw on to something scary and unfortunately Ironic. Osbien Ben Ladin ( Forgive the spelling) is a former Afganistan Freedom Fighter. These people as you know where trained by (Oh, yes you Guessed it, The USofA). We trained this mook to go out and Kill People and Break things in teh name of Freedom and Democracy.
Jeez, I saw this last nite on the News I flipped, we trained this vicious killer. WHat happen to the policy of when we are doen with them shoot'em. This is one of our own Attack Dog's gone Rabid, he has used the facilities we left to train him and his crew to kill Soviet's to know kill us...
------------------
Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
"First Away Team Mission... Beaming down to a Hostile Planet... Captain Kirk is leading the Away Team... I am wearing a red shirt... No Fear!!! Unknown Crew Member
Good point - keep this as a criminal matter. After all, they'll be extradited to the US after trial and then you can kill 'em anyway.
As for people celebrating this, I think you have to understand the level of hatred some of these populations feel towards the States. It isn't just a matter of "The US supported Israel, so they are the enemy by association". Countries like Korea, Thailand and nearly Malaysia (which, by the way, is one of the most stable and humane places in the Middle East) were hit hard a few years back because the US had bought up vast amounts of the local currency and then dumped it back on the market - the idea being to devalue the currency and thus make it easier to buy businesses in those regions. It worked - the States got good deals on those businesses. It also put over a million people in the area out of work, who were already on the poverty line (and if you're below the poverty line in those regions, you stand a good chance of starving to death). Several governments resigned because they couldn't cope with the devaluation of the economy.
I'm not saying that any of this justifies what happened two days ago, but at least it shows why there is such palpable anger at the States, and why some of these people might celebrate.
Someone said this was a good thing because it made America realize it can't distance itself from world events. Find those responsible and deal with them, then learn from this to develop a less aggressive foreign policy. It took Saddam Hussein to be the one to say that America is reaping what it sowed from the Middle East. While he said that for his own ends, it is true to say that US foreign policy is heavy-handed and can engender resentment among these peoples.
Here in Britain, our own attempt to use our muscle against Ireland sparked terrorist action. Our situation was made more difficult because many of the people in Ireland wanted British rule. Strongarm tactics don't work - I heard the US ambassador say last night that economic sanctions were among the non-military options that could be considered. But it has already been shown in Iraq that sanctions only hit the common people, not the government. Smart leaders like Hussein can then use the suffering of the commoners to foster hatred against those who impose the sanctions.
All points worth considering, but again I want to say I don't feel they justify this horror (I don't think anything can).
------------------
"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest
AFAIK the Marshal plan was partially credit, partially donation. And we did repay the financial dept. And please remember that the US had a secondary idea behind this - either the rebuild us, or the UdSSR would.Quote:
Originally posted by Jonathan Talbot:
[B]Folks, you are going to lovr this, I just got this from one of my other groups that I yap on line with, it is from Canada our Neighbor to the North...
This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.
America: The Good Neighbor.
Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a
remarkable
editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian
television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as
printed in the Congressional Record:
"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the
most
generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted
out of
the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars
and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today
paying
even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.
That's the french way. They do this with every tourist. Still, in a nice way since no one except a french can understand the rapid-fire language they use. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gifQuote:
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans
who
propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the
streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
Has to do with "every nation by itself unless it can not, than all others help". The US is considered too rich to need help. If they ask, they will likely get it but no one believes the need without.Quote:
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that
hurries in
to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by
tornadoes.
Nobody helped.
Nations change. Mine did, the US did. Ones there were great men. Now there are Schroeders, Bush jrs. and BlairsQuote:
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars!
into
discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing
about
the decadent, warmongering Americans.
Hmm, let's try the Airbus A300, A310, A320, A340 all build in Europe. Like the one currently flying overhead with the big Lufthansa Logo on the stabiliser. Modern planes easily give Tri-Star/DC-10 and even 747/757/767 a run for the money (and they do)Quote:
I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the
erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any
other
country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the
Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly
them? Why
do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
To be hones, I find a car more useful. The US german engineers under Brown and Oberth did a nice work thou on the SaturnV. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gifQuote:
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman
on the
moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You
talk
about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.
You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -!
not
once, but several times - and safely home again.
We have ours in the press. In color. Our defence minister is better than a soap opera. Our foreign minister used to be a protester in 68. Our interior minister defended RAF terrorists. All well known to even the unskilled worker. Besides our chancellor is better than Clinton. Four wives until now. Beat that, Billy Boy http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gifQuote:
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the
store
window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not
pursued
and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are
breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa
at home
to spend here.
Must have been another planet the guy lifes on. German rail was state owned until recently and now is still mostly. Nothing works and a lot is broken. No US help here unless someone brought stocks in a local rail operator. But that is commonly known as business, not aid. And you do it, to make money or reduce tax load.Quote:
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down
through
age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania
Railroad
and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old
caboose. Both
are still broke.
Start naming. But as for other nations: The french in the revolution. Another try in the war of 1815. German specialists on some mining accidents. Search dogs in Oklahoma IIRC. Most likely a lot of small scale, not talked about help from specialists. The US has only once been attacked by another nation that put troops in the CONUS (1815) and generally has a stable, large infra-structure so they don't need / ask for help. Blindly sending help is useless. One can offer "tell me your needs" but the other side might not need it / believe it does not need it.Quote:
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of
other
people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else
raced to
the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even
during
the San Francisco earthquake.
Few people are gloating. We hope for (no prayers I am an agnostic) those still trapped, mourn for the dead and offer condolescence for those left behind. But that are people, not nations. The US hasn't changed. The US isn't harmed - it's the people that are.Quote:
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned
tired
of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing
with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their
nose at
the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope
Canada is
not one of those."
Stand proud, America!
If you consider the US the beacon of civilisation and democracy do so. I don't. They are a nation with faults and problems and everything. As all nations have. They have great moments in history and lousy ones. They are far from perfect.
If you consider US culture the best available, do so. I don't. They have nice elements but so do the europeans. Only, we have more. The US may be younger, more vibrant. But also rough around the edges. They are a rebellious teenager used to getting it's way. One hopes they learn responsibility and social behaviour without more pains.
Besides, flags and nations are so out-dated. Too bad we europeans only get rid of national money on 31/Dec/01, not of the nations too.
Michael.
"You look at US technocracy, and you see a man on the moon".
And would that really have happened if you weren't so worried about the Russians beating you to it? My point being, given sufficient incentive, any nation can be ingenious. Hell, as your government keeps telling us till it's blue in the face, Pakistan now has nuclear capability. Russia had a space shuttle (Buran) just as good if not better (bigger payload) than the States, despite lack of money.
Yes, the States has the biggest economy in the world. Yes, you have the big businesses. You have a right to be proud of that. But pride is different from arrogance, and there is a distinct tendency for the US to laud itself above all others which is extremely irritating even to those of us in other developed countries, to say nothing of those in "these places that gloat of the erosion of the dollar".
By the way, the British have told the US during several recent disasters that we had people ready to help with relief efforts. But we don't come unless invited, and so far we've not seen an RSVP.
------------------
"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest
Michael,
I agree at 98% with you (the missing 2% are the comment about the French http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif).
Sehr gut.
Geez...you miss a few days, and get way behind...
Just like to put in my two cents worth: I agree in every way that the terrorists should be caught up with and punished in the fullest ways possible. If that means actively going to war, and hunting them down, then so be it.
I in no way support the actions of the militant few who decide that someone else's way of life is wrong, and should therefore be destroyed. This is precisely the sort of attitude these would-be Followers-of-God accuse the Western World (and the USA in particular) of displaying - and then go ahead and do precisely why they accuse others of doing.
There is no room in this world for people like that. If they can't follow the teachings of their own priests and scriptures (which, I believe, is very similar to the Christian teachings), then they don't deserve to call themselves religious persons; and, for their levels of active violence, don't deserve to be called Human.
I do not pretend to be Worldy, and I know I am far from Godly - but I know I am better than them. I respect life. They should, too.
------------------
"...and more controversial than Oolon Colluphid's trilogy of philosophical blockbusters Where God went Wrong, Some More of God's Greatest Mistakes, and Who is this God Person Anyway?"
- The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams (dec.)
That is our german yealousy. We tried the same with french tourists but too many speak german for it to work. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gifQuote:
Originally posted by C5:
Michael,
I agree at 98% with you (the missing 2% are the comment about the French http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif).
Sehr gut.
Michael
Despite this horrible incident, this brought a hearty smile across my face. We shouldn`t lose our humor after all.Quote:
Originally posted by C5:
Michael,
I agree at 98% with you (the missing 2% are the comment about the French http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif).
Sehr gut.
For Germany`s part:
Today at 10 am CET the whole German country had 5 minutes of silence in rememberance of the dead of this act. Trains stopped, cars were halted by the police: everyone participated. There have been tenthousands of people who went out on the street and placed candles on the ground. There are meetings even now going on and the churches were also full of people praying.
It may sound sarcastic, but there is a good in this attack. All people all over the world are now feeling closer. The governments work closer now and we have grown closer emotionally. This MAY! be the beginning of a new era. From this could grow a new dimension of the term "humanity". I hope that our government shall put aside their pitiful quarrels and reconsider their stands. This could be the birth of an era with a union of most countries against terrorism and later maybe in many years a form of world government.
If there is something like God:
God bless us all!!!
(not just America!)
After doing some research this was attributed to Nostradamus nearly a century after his death. Art Bell did talk about it last night.Quote:
Originally posted by Phantom:
Kaiddin,
On the other thread you posted;
In the City of God there will be a great thunder.
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos.
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
Do you happen to know what Century and Quatrain this is?
We have a book with all the quatrains of Nostradamus in it here at the library I work at.
I haven't found this one yet.
Me sniffie hoaxee.
If you want to see arrogance, try being an American travelling through European and running into locals with the same prejudices that are being expressed on this board. There is plenty of arrogance to go around on both sides of the Atlantic. Europe has many things to be proud of as well as many things to be ashamed of. So does the U.S. If the United States is the spoiled teenager who is used to getting his way, then Europe would have to be....no....perhaps I won't stoop to this level afterall.Quote:
Originally posted by Capt.Hunter:
But pride is different from arrogance, and there is a distinct tendency for the US to laud itself above all others...
The old fart fixed in his inflexible ways? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gifQuote:
Originally posted by dimeboy99:
If you want to see arrogance, try being an American travelling through European and running into locals with the same prejudices that are being expressed on this board. There is plenty of arrogance to go around on both sides of the Atlantic. Europe has many things to be proud of as well as many things to be ashamed of. So does the U.S. If the United States is the spoiled teenager who is used to getting his way, then Europe would have to be....no....perhaps I won't stoop to this level afterall.
Hey, I never claimed that Europe is perfect. All depending on ones Point of View. The teenager just comes in handy as a comparisson when you compare the USA (founded 1776, settled around 1650 AFAIK) with Europe where a lot of persons can visit the place there ancestors lived in the middle ages by walking a few minutes/hours. That's a fact, not arrogance. With 1200+ years of recorded history compared to around 400, we had more chances. I am not comparing Goethe (booooring) with Dale Brown (nice read) or Clive Cussler (even better) and continue to claim that Goethe is superior.
Some things the US political class (not: The individual citizen) did in the last few years (Kyoto treaty, ABM treaty, Attack on Sudan pharmaceutical factory) come of as "I'am the Leroy Brown type here and can do what I want". Well, not every one lives on the South side of Chicago. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif That's what caused the "spoiled teenager".
The few US citizens I met in person (back in 88 during a REFORGER) where generally nice people. Had some fun with miss-conceptions (A german liberal is totaly diffenrent from the US version) and some nice evenings.
As I said before I diffrentiate between inhabitants (those I judge on a person by person base) and nation (that I judge by politics and behaviour). Every one has the right to do the same (I might even pass the ammo) If I come over as arrogant, well it's just directed at your nation, not you.
Michael
On a slightly different topic, I heard on the radio that a bunch of (French) Firemen with 20 (was it 50?) tons of equipment (and search dogs I believe) were about to leave for NYC ...
I do hope it's not too late (they had to wait for the approval from the US as far as I understood). Still, it gave me a warm feeling to hear this.
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Sometimes it's better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness.
-- (Terry Pratchett, Men at Arms)
Quote:
Originally posted by Phantom:
Kaiddin,
On the other thread you posted;
In the City of God there will be a great thunder.
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos.
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning.
Do you happen to know what Century and Quatrain this is?
Nostradamus did not write this.
It was originally written in a essay titled "Nostradamus: A Critical Analysis", posted to the web at http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm
The author is Neil Marshall, and this "prediction" is part of his presentation of the argument that given a sufficient number of vaguely worded predictions left to rest for a sufficient period of time, a number of them are bound to eventually fit the circumstances of some events.
The "America: The Good Neighbor" was written by Gordon Sinclair in 1973. He died in 1983. He was known to some as "The Canadian Andy Rooney," for those who're familiar with that particular American pundit.
US President Bush in a telephone conference with New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and New York Gov. George Pataki.
"And as we do so, I urge -- I know I don't need to tell you all this -- but our nation must be mindful that there are thousands of Arab-Americans who live in New York City, who love their flag just as much as the three of us do, and we must be mindful that as we seek to win the war that we treat Arab-Americans and Muslims with the respect they deserve. I know that is your attitude as well -- certainly the attitude of this government: that we should not hold one who is a Muslim responsible for an act of terror."
With no further comment beside that I may have to rethink about my (former) attitude towards a certain head of state.
Quote:
Originally posted by Keny Suda:
US President Bush in a telephone conference with New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and New York Gov. George Pataki.
"And as we do so, I urge -- I know I don't need to tell you all this -- but our nation must be mindful that there are thousands of Arab-Americans who live in New York City, who love their flag just as much as the three of us do, and we must be mindful that as we seek to win the war that we treat Arab-Americans and Muslims with the respect they deserve. I know that is your attitude as well -- certainly the attitude of this government: that we should not hold one who is a Muslim responsible for an act of terror."
With no further comment beside that I may have to rethink about my (former) attitude towards a certain head of state.
Don't believe the hype, guys and gals, about the Conservative politicians (and people) of America. We're not racists, bigots, sexists or morons as a whole. (sure we have our lunatic fringe who are all of the above, as do the Liberals.) I myself am a conservative who comes from a racially mixed family and who has friends of several creeds and colors. I'm active in the Republican party, have conservative (and liberal) friends and have yet to meet an extremist even though we tend to all be painted as extreme.
I am very glad that President Bush has said this regarding the Arab-Americans as a people. Now is not the time for racial paranioia to take hold of this nation. As radio-personality Dr. Laura said today (and I'm paraphrasing) "Punish the guilty, not the innocent. Hurting somebody that is different than you in retaliation is immoral, inexcusible and unamerican. Having had it happen to my own religion for centuries (she's Jewish)I won't stand for any people to be persecuted in that way." I agree completely. Cooler heads must prevail and the fringe goof-balls need to go back to watching pro wrestling.
Wow! I know some Canadians that did not know who GS was.Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Preas:
The "America: The Good Neighbor" was written by Gordon Sinclair in 1973. He died in 1983. He was known to some as "The Canadian Andy Rooney," for those who're familiar with that particular American pundit.
I was beginning to wonder, I didn't remember seeing that Quatrain in the book I have.
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In the Praetors Name!
dimeboy99
I never ment to say, that the Conservatives are racists.
It's just that I was somehow impressed by Bush's words. I didn't expect such reasonable words because of some of his former statements.
I'd like to second Michael's words. If I came across as condemning America, I apologize. I too make a distinction between individuals and governments. Heck, my own government (whether this or the last) has made some decisions I find questionable. I saw one American representative on a political debate show last night being "deeply hurt and saddened" that, just 48 hours after the event, resentment of the American people was coming out (a lot of the points I and Michael have raised were brought up, only in not such civilized language). Please understand, it is not the American people that this resentment is directed at, but the actions of your government. As was pointed out last night, America and the world must find and punish those responsible for this attack, but governments whose countries are targets for terrorism (and I include my own in this) also must look at why they are targets. Political terrorism always has a reason. Usually it is not an irrational one. If there are things we can do to improve relationships between nations so that these fanatics have no excuse, then we must do them.
By the way, the most sensible thing I heard on this debate was said by one of the youngest members of the audience (he was about 20) - we need to be very careful that this issue does not turn religion against religion or culture against culture. As he correctly pointed out, it was in danger of happening in that very room as people said the Moslems should bow down and thank America for all it had done, and the Moslems pointed out some of the questionable things it had done.
This has been one of the worst tragedies in recent history. We need to make sure that internal conflict, pride and name-calling don't create a worse one.
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"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest