Ent. Episode 6 "The Andorian Incident"

Overall I liked the episode. But...if Enterprise keeps on the way they are going, the Vulcans are going to look nastier than Romulans/Klingons/Ferengi/Dominion/etc... Did anyone notice if any of the Vulcans actually lied in the episode? Certainly they were deceptive.

In the original series there was a saying that Vulcans never lied. They often used this to their advantage--get Spock to lie to people and they would believe him, but it was understood that Spock was half-human, so he had a loophole. Was the saying just an urban legend, or was it true? If it was true, it seemed to have been violated in this episode.

I thought the characterization of the Andorians was actually one of the things they have done that is most faithful to the original show. We only saw the Andorians in a few episodes ("Journey To Babel," "Whom Gods Destroy" although I don't think that one spoke), but the fact that they were hardly shown, coupled with the Andorian ambassador's one-up on Spock's logic ("Perhaps you should look for motives of passion and profit instead of logic for murder"--paraphrased) has made them one of the most intriguing of the races in ST for me.

One question about their homeworld--it was never mentioned in the original series, so it certainly was not canon, but the FASA game and I believe some of the early ST fiction books referred to their homeworld as Andor. In the LUG game, and here in Enterprise, they refer to it as Andoria. I liked the shorter "Andor" better--I believe it was a stronger name...

Some questions I have about the series--

I had originally heard they would be using lasers (no convenient stun ability, so you have to make harder decisions about shooting someone), but they ended up with phase pistols. Were the weapons used in Captain Pike's time (and on the remote colonies depicted in the "The Man Trap," "What Are Little Girls Made Of?", etc.) phasers or lasers? Certainly no stun capability was ever depicted, although they could have had it, I suppose...

Originally I had heard that the transporter was experimental and would only support one person, making it necessary to use shuttles (again, opening up the possibilities for stories by not having convenient beam-ups). Already they are using the transporter successfully, and in "The Andorian Incident," for multiple people!

Shouldn't the communicators be larger and have exposed circuitry as in Pike's time?

Should the translators work even as well as they do? In Kirk's time a hand-held device was necessary...

Although some updating was necessary to give the show good special effects, it seems like they are not trying hard enough to be faithful to the earlier series. For example, the replicator shown in one episode failed to work, but it didn't look any different from the replicators in Next Gen time. Couldn't they at least have put cover panels on them like they had in Kirk's time? It's possible to make them look futuristic to our time without making them clones of what was shown in Next Gen. I get the feeling the set people just said, "well we already know what it looks like for Next Gen, let's just reuse it..."

I really enjoyed all the phaser beams flying all over the place in the last battle of The Andorian Incident. The beams were bright, thin, and crisp. There was probably more phaser fire in that one scene than in the entire STTNG series...

Long before the Vulcans even admitted there was a transmitter, when the Andorians were beating up Archer, it became clear to me the Andorians probably did have a good case. They're paranoid, but not THAT paranoid. They weren't going to all that trouble for nothing. And the Vulcans weren't acting as indignant as they normally should have, even for monks--"if we wait the Andorians will leave us alone in a few days".

Jeffrey Combs (Weyoun, Brunt, etc. he was in a Voyager episode too) really knows how to deliver a line: "You must enjoy pain" (when Archer kept stalling, causing them to continue to beat him up). He's been sarcastic in almost every role. His characters always seem to take a certain delight in toturing someone...

"Looks like a duck, walks like a duck,
and quacks like a duck...and tastes like chicken!"

I've always thought anything ruled by an Emperor was an empire...Krotus anyone? Andorian ancestor worship?

BTW, "Andoria" was called "Andor" in In The Pale Moonlight.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by C. Huth
BTW, "Andoria" was called "Andor" in In The Pale Moonlight.

---

In a later episode (during Season7) it was referred to as Andoria. I don't remember the name of the episode right off the top of my head, but it was the one where Ezri went "home."

Though, you can make a case for it being called both. Earth is sometimes referred to as earth, terra, or sol III. Though, I'm still waiting for it to be called Hume. I mean Vulcans live on Vulcan, Andorians live on Andoria/Andor, Bajorans live on Bajor, and so on. Then again, I could just have just had some bad bread crumbs down at the pond.

Quack!

Quote:

---

In a later episode (during Season7) it was referred to as Andoria. I don't remember the name of the episode right off the top of my head, but it was the one where Ezri went "home."

---

"Prodigal Daughter."

The writers definitely can't seem to make up their minds. I think the references are about 65-35 in favor of "Andoria," but that's just a guess.

Personally, I'm much more fond of Andoria, and was glad to see them use it. It just sounds better. Besides, if it were Andor, the people who came from there should be Andorans. ;)

Steve Long

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve Long
Personally, I'm much more fond of Andoria, and was glad to see them use it. It just sounds better. Besides, if it were Andor, the people who came from there should be Andorans. ;)

Steve Long

---

That's very true. Which leads me to believe that if they ever named the third planet of the Sol system after the native sentient species, it wouldn't be Humia. :p

And, thanks for the title Steve.

Quack!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Phantom



HA! Very nice. :D :D

I guess I'm in the minority here, but the more I see the show the harder it is to convince myself I'm watching Trek.

(shrug)

---

That's very interesting. You see, the more that I see the show, the harder it is to convince myself that I was watching Trek during TNG, DS9, and Vomitter...err...Voyager.

I've said it since the premiere, Enterprise *is* Trek, they've finally recaptured the original spirit and enhanced it, not to mention that they finally proved my pet theory that Vulcans are nothing more than a race of snooty manipulative cheatin', lyin', bastards!

...although some of them do look nice in a brown catsuit. :D

May the Dark Side Be With You... Always!

-Darth Malice-
Dark Lord of the Cynical SciFi Fans

Quote:

---

"A violent and...race!" It seems to me these Andorians weren't much as warriors, sure they could beat up Archer while he was in a chair, but he and Tucker pretty much mopped the floor with them when they got into hand to hand.

---

You're crying foul at every term, Phantom. To their culture, they are warriors. They don't have to be noble or chivalrous (you put too much stock into it compared to our Earth counterparts), especially when dealing with non-Andorians.

At least they got what they came for (evidence of a treaty violation between their species and the Vulcans) and leave without further altercation.

You think they should have superior martial skills over anyone they encounter? Not necessarily but they are trained.

AFAIC, I like this portrayal of the Andorians in Archer's timeline (22nd Century) as much as I like the portrayal of Klingons in Kirk's timeline (TOS 23rd Century). I would even go so far to say that they should be ENTERPRISE main villains, with the Vulcans being uneasy allies.

I give "The Andorian Incident" a 9 stars of out 10.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Salinger
[B]

That's very true. Which leads me to believe that if they ever named the third planet of the Sol system after the native sentient species, it wouldn't be Humia. :p

Isn't the name on record Terra? As in Terrans?

For all you who nail the writers for every single canon violation... give it a rest.

I frankly, do not care all that much about canon violating as long as they are telling A GOOD STORY, which they are. I think Enterprise is a great show that can only get better. Sorry if i've doomed myself to being flamed. Thank your for listening to my momentary ranting and raving.

White Flag!

Quote:

---

For all you who nail the writers for every single canon violation... give it a rest.

---

Er, no. Unless the moderators tell me not to, I feel I have very right to speak my mind. As I say you have to speak yours. Whether or not you agree with me, doesn't bother me in the least but I would ask you to accept my right to speak my opinion.

As for flaming; there is no need. We can disagree without degenerating into nastiness. However I know I don't like being told I can't voice my opinion by one side of an argument or another. If people can voice positive notions of Enterprise then a few of us can say a few negative things about it.

Myself I pick holes in plots but that doesn't mean I don't like Enterprise. If anything its the debate and exchange of views that I am after, not convincing anyone to spew venom over the portrayl of Vulcans or anything.

Quote:

---

I frankly, do not care all that much about canon violating as long as they are telling A GOOD STORY

---

I have a great tolerance for canon bending for the sake of a good story. However that only goes so far - if a writer cannot fit a story into the broad framework of an existing series then he isn't worth the price of the script, in my opinion. No need to sweat the small stuff but if a writer feels the need to turn the entire Vulcan nation into emotional cybernetic gothic square dancers for a "good story" then I have a problem. ;)

As for Enterprise - it has had a shakey start, but its improving. As long as they stay way from episodes like Unexpected :rolleyes: then I won't complain much. The Andorian Incident however was a real winner for me, despite my quibbles about how the Vulcans are portrayed.

As for the "Empire" discussion: An Empire is a form of political government more than it is a indication of size. Any government that is ruled by and Emperor is an Empire, whether it is one planet or 1000 worlds. Just because Andor only has a handful of worlds doesn't mean it cannot be an Empire. And it suits the Andorians better than the "Theasaurus" designations for governments we saw in Voyager (Sodality, Conglomerate, Imperium, etc etc).

Hey! I really liked the way that the antennae were almost a forehead appliance and moving....don't think anyone mentioned that but it was pretty well done, even if you could see the ridge along the spine where Westmoore had to hide the power cable for the anntennae motors it still was better than any Andorian before....

I like the episode. I was just happy to see a show about Andorians. The moving antennae were cool. That Weyoun dude is a good actor. I like it when good actors come back, regardless of what they play.

As for them being 'carboard'... heck- half the Enterprise crew still seem cardboard to me. Commander Tucker and Lt. Reed are interesting characters while the rest are pretty boring (for me at least). When Tucker and Reed are on screen I pay attention to what they say and do, but when any other crew are on screen I'm thinking "yeah, yeah, whatever." Ensign Sato is alright too, not for the character, but for Linda Park's non-trek publicity photos (woohoo!). However, a linguist onboard is a refreshing idea. Its nice to know that not every species speaks English.

The Vulcans development was interesting. Without Nimoy or Mark Leonard's acting, the Vulcans certainly have the potential of becoming cardboard. Their new sneaky-ness gives them some depth at least.

On a side note, weren't there slight differences between Andorian antennae in TOS episodes? If I remember correctly, Babel antennas were smooth, while the ones in Whom Gods Destroy had subtle ridges. This was reflected in Among the Clans artwork, too.

They're telling a terrible story
But it doesn't diminish their glory
For we'd be watching it if it was written
by their six year old daughters...

I'm not sure, but I think my intelligence was just called into question. However, the internet is a poor medium for conveying emotional context. Was that the intent??? (i.e. anyone who likes "Enterprise" has the intelligence of a six-year old).

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Dan Stack
I'm not sure, but I think my intelligence was just called into question. However, the internet is a poor medium for conveying emotional context. Was that the intent??? (i.e. anyone who likes "Enterprise" has the intelligence of a six-year old).

---

I think the pointhe was trying to make in rhyme was that we would watch the show even if it were written by chimps pounding randomly on computers simply because its Star Trek and I have to admit I would....

Apparently, Shran is going to be in another episode. Read this article.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve Long


"Prodigal Daughter."

The writers definitely can't seem to make up their minds. I think the references are about 65-35 in favor of "Andoria," but that's just a guess.

Personally, I'm much more fond of Andoria, and was glad to see them use it. It just sounds better. Besides, if it were Andor, the people who came from there should be Andorans. ;)

Steve Long

---

The shorter "Andor" sounds better because it sounds stronger. The "ia" is weaker. I don't think the "ians" logic necessarily follows, either. Peru->Peruvians, not Peruvans.

The earlier writers obviously had an ear for stronger names.

Robbie

Eh. Well, I was disappointed that the Andorians were basically little more than thugs... Maybe they'll get another chance to get something approaching a culture.



Well.



We'll see.

Hmm, and someone pointed out that the Kligons had fo' ridges. There goes my theory that they're caused by cloaking devices. Oh, well.

}:)

Quote:

---

Eh. Well, I was disappointed that the Andorians were basically little more than thugs...

---

I wouldn't call them thugs. They're soldiers, not necessarily gentlemen soldiers. They went in and got what they needed to get and left. At least they kept Archer's crew and the Vulcan monks alive. I wouldnt. (What can I say? I'm a Klingon at heart.) :cool:

If the Vulcans have some complaint about the incident, they can either go through diplomatic channel or retaliate in kind.

Hopefully we will see more of the Andorians. That one episode alone can't fully describe the bulk of their society any more can you describe Earth's diversified cultures.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Azar Kel
[B]

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Salinger


That's very true. Which leads me to believe that if they ever named the third planet of the Sol system after the native sentient species, it wouldn't be Humia. :p

Isn't the name on record Terra? As in Terrans?

---

That's one little detail I really liked in Babylon 5 - nearly every time the Narn, Centauri etc are talking about humans, they refer to us as "the Earthers".

I'd imagine there's a word in each of the Vulcan, Andorian, Bajoran, etc languages for themselves that roughly translates as "human being".

Quote:

---

Originally posted by REG

Hopefully we will see more of the Andorians.

---

You get your wish...Shran himself will be back (presumedly with more Andorians in tow) in an ep that goes before the cameras in a couple of weeks (this according to press releases on several sites).

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Aldaron


That's one little detail I really liked in Babylon 5 - nearly every time the Narn, Centauri etc are talking about humans, they refer to us as "the Earthers".

I'd imagine there's a word in each of the Vulcan, Andorian, Bajoran, etc languages for themselves that roughly translates as "human being".

---

I really did like the Ferengi term "HEw-mon"

I wasn't aiming at anyone, I don't even agree with the views I express in my Pirates of Penzance parodies.

Oh good. I'm still smarting from threads on trekbbs.com where the intelligence of anyone who enjoys Enterprise seems to be labelled a "drooling Bermanite fanboy" who would watch anything they put out.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Fesarius
Chronologically, weren't they introduced in TOS episode "Journey to Babel"? Regardless of the fact that these Andorians had different antennae located in a different place. At that time, didn't the Ambassador (Shras?) describe his people as "violent and passionate"? If my memory is correct, I don't see much of a continuity grenade, here.

---

"Violent", yes, but not "passsionate". The passion reference comes from later in the same conversation with Spock, but not regarding Andorian temperment.

"Perhaps you should forget logic and seek out motivations of passion or gain. These are reasons for murder." -- Andorian ambassador after Spock notes that there is no logic in Gav's murder or in the attack on Kirk.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rgilbert


The shorter "Andor" sounds better because it sounds stronger. The "ia" is weaker. I don't think the "ians" logic necessarily follows, either. Peru->Peruvians, not Peruvans.

The earlier writers obviously had an ear for stronger names.

Robbie

---

I'd like to elaborate on this a bit. While any discussion of "what sounds good" as far as names are concerned must by necessity involve subjectivity, there are some naming rules that tend to support "Andor" being stronger than "Andoria":

(1) Shorter names tend to be stronger than longer names. This is true only up to a point: two-syllable names often sound better than one-syllable names, but Andoria is 4 syllables to Andor's 2 syllables.

(2) Names ending in "-a" tend to suggest gentleness: flora, fauna. I expect Andoria to be (1) a pleasure planet like Risa, or (2) a highly refined, cultured planet. I must admit that Andoria probably sounds better if you are looking for a more fluid, rolling name like many words in the French language, but this is not what I am looking for when I think of the Andorians.

(3) Names ending in a vowel plus "r" tend to be stronger names, names often associated with action: Quasar and Zandor (from The Herculoids), pulsar, sonar, radar, phaser. This is why Andor, Tellar, and Bajor all sound stronger than "Andoria," "Tellaria," and "Bajoria" (in my opinion). But Cardassia sounds better than Cardass because the sibilant ending does not sound right to the ear. I think the stronger "Andor" is more in keeping with the warlike nature of the Andorian clans.

In early TOS episodes, the plan was for Vulcan to be called Vulcanis and its inhabitants to be called Vulcanians. "Vulcanian" is mentioned in several early episodes. This was dropped, due in part, I suspect, to the weaker sound of the longer names. Vulcan, for both race and planet, sounds so much stronger, in keeping with the original primitiveness and the current strength of its inhabitants. Can you imagine "Vulcania"? I can't. I also think Andoran is slightly stronger than Andorian. The double-vowel seems to add to the weakness. Note that my discussion here is not as much about canon as about what sounds stronger.

I would also like to clarify my Peru analogy. What I meant is that our language rules are not consistent enough that the root can always be determined from the derived word. Just because people are called Peruvians does not mean their country has to be called Peruvia (it's Peru). Just because people are called Bolians does not mean their planet is called Bolia (it's Bolarus). Just because people are called Talosians doesn't mean their planet is called Talosia (it's Talos IV).

There also appears to be some dispute about Neelix's home world being Talax or Talaxia. In this case I'm not sure the shorter form sounds as good as the longer form--the "-x" ending may have similar problems to the sibilant ending for "Cardass".

When I first opened the LUG RPG book, I was disappointed to see the word "Andoria." I still wince every time I see it, and I will not say it. One the whole, though, I think the LUG products are very good. And I can understand why some might prefer the fluid, rolling sound of "Andoria."
:)

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill Harris


"Violent", yes, but not "passsionate". The passion reference comes from later in the same conversation with Spock, but not regarding Andorian temperment.

"Perhaps you should forget logic and seek out motivations of passion or gain. These are reasons for murder." -- Andorian ambassador after Spock notes that there is no logic in Gav's murder or in the attack on Kirk.

---

One of the great all-time quotes from TOS! I love it. Similar to McCoy telling Spock that the big monster-things might be reacting out of emotion, out of feeling, in "Galileo Seven," but much more sarcastically stated. For the Andorians' few minutes of screen time, Shras depicted them well.

Hmm....I wish I had had time to say something when this was still fresh in my mind. But here is an attempt to deal with the some of the issues surrounding the episode. To start with, I neither liked it as much as some of y'all who loved it, not did I hate it, either. The human and Vulcan characters were pretty strongly developed, but my main complaint about the Andorians was that we actually learn next to nothing about them. The plot in this episode was better developed than in some others, though it had a couple of holes. The tech and sets worked very well.

More specifically:

1. Canon violations: There was nothing about the Andorians which violated series canon, that I could detect. It is really a pity that the writers didn't use the LUG material, but the episode could be broadly LUG compatible. The Vulcans, however, are beginning to develop into an ongoing credibility problem. Yeah, they don't violate STRICT canon by being deceitful and manipulative, but they sure violate the spirit of TOS, with its "everyone knows that Vulcans don't lie" mentality. There is also the little issue of the hidden, ultra-private Vulcan mating practices, which are now known to everyone.

2. "The Andorian Imperial Guard": Not a violation of strict canon, nor necessarily an indication that the Andorians have an empire. This could easily be the name of a terrorist group, maybe based on memories of Krotus' empire. If the Andorians do have an empire, then it might fit with the Technical Manual information, or not.

3. Andorian Violence: The Andorians were suitably violent, in my view. That were also paranoid is an interesting and not very believable addition to canon. Maybe the paranoia thing is pure prejudice on the Vulcans' part. They weren't all that tough in combat, but weren't that bad either. If they really are the elite Imperial Guard, this just became a problem. If they are just a bunch of terrorists and flakes, then not. The leather costumes were quite nice IMHO.

4. Dumth: Let's see, Andoria and Vulcan are near neighbors? Then why did the Vulcans put the sensor array on a distant world? DUMB! Archer comes out with information, then gives none, and the notoriously paranoid Andorians don't suspect he's up to something? DUMB! The secret, hidden sensor array doesn't have a lock on the door? REALLY DUMB! Humans smell so bad that Vulcans need nasal anaesthetic? COME ON!!! That Sarek must have been quite the odd guy, huh, to marry stinking humans twice.

So, there is my opinion. Mostly not bad, but a couple of uncomfortable moments, and four howlers. Only four howlers isn't all that bad for 21st century TV.........

With regards to statement #4 above, I don't think they're referring to the homeworld being "neighbors." From what I can guess from that episode, the Vulcan have explored and colonized beyond their own system. The same can be said of the Andorians.

Besides, we would have done the same thing too, build a long-range sensor array to monitor our neighbors. Of course we won't disguise it as a monastery.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Phantom
Guess I didn't miss anything after all. Pretty much new the array was there from the first it was mentioned and when the "monk" went with them armed it was verified...No surprise, like I said they need to come up with imaginative writting. Cardboard plot, cardboard villians...Cardboard show.

---

Not to be mean, but if you hate the show that much, why watch it? If I didn't like it I'd certainly find something else to do. Not a criticisim just an observation.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Diamond_Spear


Not to be mean, but if you hate the show that much, why watch it? If I didn't like it I'd certainly find something else to do. Not a criticisim just an observation.

---

I am rapidly approaching the point where I won't. The reason why I have watched till now is:

1) The pilot was a good opener, I was pleasingly surprised and I thought the other episodes would just as interesting.

2) When you run into a bad episode there is always next week. Well, Enterprise is a neverending search for hope of a good episode.

I have made the promise to myself that if this weeks episode follows what I have seen thus far, I will not be watching it next week onwards. As I have said "at least there are still two good sci-fi shows on TV" being SG-1 and Andromeda.

I was merely, as suggested by others, "giving it a chance." Well, I have and IMO it has failed.

OK, maybe TOS simply said only subspace communications were possible during the Earth-Romulan wars. And if you want to STRETCH IT, you can say the Romulans refused to communicate visually. But I don't think that's the common interpretation most fans took at the time it was said.

I don't think the writers considered it at all when deciding to have ship-to-ship visuals in Enterprise. I think they just decided to do whatever they wanted. They don't really care about whether or not they're violating canon. All they care about is writing stories they want to write about. Probably they wouldn't even include the main characters if they could get away with it. That's why Pocket Books had to emphasize to new writers that the novels need to be about the main characters, because many of them wanted to center their stories around special guest characters. In other words, they didn't really care much about Star Trek except to use it as a backdrop for their own stories. I get the same impression from the recent writers.

They could have made some of the visuals look a little less sophisticated. For example--the replicators look the same as the ones on TNG. Couldn't they at least have put covers on them like they had in Kirk's time? Covers could have been added and still have the replicators look more advanced than our current technology. The truth is, the set people just wanted to go with what they already had wherever they could. So this argument about "can't make everything look as bad as it did in TOS" doesn't wash. It's possible to make things look less sophisticated without them looking as bad as the '60s sets.

In fact, I think the current Enterprise looks sleeker than any of the previous ones, including TNG and Voyager! It has the sleekest, reflective metallic hull of any of the ships. Don't tell me they had to make it look that sleek to look better than the '60s Enterprise.

I also wish they would use the article "the" when talking about the Enterprise, as they did on TOS, TNG, and DS9: "the Enterprise," the "Defiant." Voyager started this slick "return to Voyager" junk and now they are continuing it with "return to Enterprise." This show is just a thinly veiled pick-up from where Voyager left off. It's not really an attempt to tell interesting stories in the context of the history of the Federation.

BTW, what is canon these days? Who said it has to be the TV shows? Originally Gene Roddenberry said so, and since Star Trek was his baby, it was generally accepted. But he's gone, and many of us feel that recent writers are not doing justice to his vision. Who says these writers inherited Roddenberry's "canon" license? Paramount? Are we letting legalities and FCC regulations govern the definition (some would say RE-definition) of Roddenberry's dream?

BTW, what is canon these days? Who said it has to be the TV shows? Originally Gene Roddenberry said so, and since Star Trek was his baby, it was generally accepted. But he's gone, and many of us feel that recent writers are not doing justice to his vision. Who says these writers inherited Roddenberry's "canon" license? Paramount? Are we letting legalities and FCC regulations govern the definition (some would say RE-definition) of Roddenberry's dream? [/B][/QUOTE]


Now I may be mistaken but I believe that Roddenberry officialy turned Star Trek over to Berman did he not?

Actually, The Late Great Bird of the Galaxy sold his right to Star Trek property to Paramount a long time before Berman came along (can't recall the date, but I'm sure someone here knows). The fact that he is the creative genius behind it that Paramount employs him to work on Star Trek. Of course, Paramount couldn't prevent Roddenberry's deteriorating health. So Paramount had to find a successor to the Star Trek franchise. I don't know if Berman and Roddenberry have gotten along during the TNG series, but it does seems that Roddenberry pretty much give him the blessing.

If I'm not mistaken, he sold the rights to Star Trek to Paramount when he sold the show, in the mid-60s. If memory serves, he tried raising money to buy the rights in the 70's, for a rather low figure, but couldn't get enough...

I'll have to see if I can dig up my aged copy of David Gerrold's The World of Star Trek - it has the details.

Well my theory is based on the fact that Majel Roddenberry has said in the past that Berman shared Roddenberry's vision. And I think if anyone knows who Gene Roddenberry was it would be his wife. But that's just my opinion I could be wrong.

If the Great Bird were alive today to see all this bickering, he'd turn over in his gravy. :p :D

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Salinger


That's very true. Which leads me to believe that if they ever named the third planet of the Sol system after the native sentient species, it wouldn't be Humia. :p

---

Actually, it would probably be Huma.

Or Hu.

MikeC, To be like the Hu-man.....