Evil Narrators

Having followed and participated in this thread... And from personnal experience I can safetly say that there is a guide to being a Good GM, anyone that follows these rules conciously or not qualifies, whether they consider themselves the worlds hottest GM or merely an OK one.


Rule 1 - Have fun and share it with your players.
You are all gathered for a social event, chances are you are all friends outside of the game too. So the key is to tell a story and share it with your friends allowing them to participate in the telling of a story.

When it comes right down to it. Thats the only rule. All the rest about using rules, keeping canon, knowing the world and background are merely fluff. At the end of the day, any fool with an imagination can be a great GM, and wouldn't even need rulebook or dice, although a pen and sheet of paper might be useful! ;)

I have a problem with a game of Star Wars that one of the players is running at the Friday night group I go to.

The major problem is that I can't stand the game but the other players like it (I prefer games of SW to be like the movies, the other players are playing cold heartless bastards).

The other minor problem is that I'm actually running the bloody game.

Does that make me a bad GM?

Advice please.

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Originally posted by silverthorn
I have a problem with a game of Star Wars that one of the players is running at the Friday night group I go to.

The major problem is that I can't stand the game but the other players like it (I prefer games of SW to be like the movies, the other players are playing cold heartless bastards).

The other minor problem is that I'm actually running the bloody game.

Does that make me a bad GM?

Advice please.

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hmmm. That sounds familiar.

I had exactly the same situation a few years back, with me trying to extol the over-the-top heroism and optimism of the movies, in the hope that the players would side with the Rebelliion.

I wouldn't even have minded if they had sided with the Empire and worked as mercs, but all the group wanted to do was fly about from planet to planet killing and raping... A thoroughly unpleasant experience to run.

In answer to your question. No this does not make you a bad GM, but if your not enjoying running the game, then you are missing out on the experience, and a GM thats bored and a little pissed off, can easily pass this across to the players even without thinking.

Does your group know this is not enjoyable for you?

Does anyone in the group have the capability to run the game too? Allowing you to swap and at least have some influence over the direction the group takes as a fellow player?

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Does your group know this is not enjoyable for you?
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Yes, they don't give a f**k. After two (count 'em, two) sessions of the Star Trek game I was running (the infamous STAR TREK: FARSCAPE) the players have decided they're not going to play that again and they want me to run bloody Star Wars again.

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Does anyone in the group have the capability to run the game too? Allowing you to swap and at least have some influence over the direction the group takes as a fellow player?
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All the other players ever run is Star bloody Wars. Although a ray of hope has entered the area. One of the other players is thinking of running TORG (cushdy, time to perfect my Arnie voice for my traditional Renegade Infiltrator).

Now all I have to do is convince them to stop playing Limp sodding Biskit and the games might get a lot better.

I had that problem once. The players were just going through the motions, not playing "in character" Ie they didnt act like people do in real life. Now we want to play heroes, and that's the point in most games, but even heros have fears... Sooooooo I killed one of them, a character that was over a decade old. After six months of real time, I finally let them find him alive, but caputred. They had turned around alot realizeing that I would kill off a old character and they started acting a little better. Biggest point: if you aren't haveing fun it's time to stop!!!!!!!!!! You won't be haveing fun, and neither will anyone else. My friend runs a SW campeighn like that and I just quit after a few sessions. Eventually they moved that session to another night and started playing something else that we all liked. If it's not possible... Well...

Oh the problem is that they're playing like professionals and thoroughly enjoying themselves while it's like pulling teeth for me. The fact that I've been planning STAR TREK: FARSCAPE for six months and the ingrates decide that they don't like it after two f**king sessions so I'm not running it anymore and I can just run Star Wars again because they liked that game.

If it didn't (marginally) beat sitting at home I'd chuck the whole Limp sodding Biskit listening lot and call it a loss.

I feel your pain.

To me, it's the difference between playing with children and playing with adults.

Silverthorn ever thought of making a SW mission so insanely difficult so as to kill the player characters? Its very mean, cruel, etc... though it gets the job done.

And have you ever tried running your ST: Farscape through the net? I'm sure several people on the boards here would be more than happy to play your series-including myself:D

The Star Trek:Farscape game is going on-line.

See the gaming Hub section for more details.

I should in fact have said that the Star Trek: Farscape game is in fact going on-line as Star Trek: Sentinel.

My apologies, still tootle over to the Gaming Hub section for more details.

I thank you.

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Originally posted by silverthorn
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Does your group know this is not enjoyable for you?
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Yes, they don't give a f**k. After two (count 'em, two) sessions of the Star Trek game I was running (the infamous STAR TREK: FARSCAPE) the players have decided they're not going to play that again and they want me to run bloody Star Wars again.

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Does anyone in the group have the capability to run the game too? Allowing you to swap and at least have some influence over the direction the group takes as a fellow player?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the other players ever run is Star bloody Wars. Although a ray of hope has entered the area. One of the other players is thinking of running TORG (cushdy, time to perfect my Arnie voice for my traditional Renegade Infiltrator).

Now all I have to do is convince them to stop playing Limp sodding Biskit and the games might get a lot better.

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Sounds like you're mismatched with your group.

I never seem to have much problem finding someone to play with, so I'd just drop the group...

You may not have that option.

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Originally posted by silverthorn

If it didn't (marginally) beat sitting at home I'd chuck the whole Limp sodding Biskit listening lot and call it a loss.

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You know, it's funny. When I read your posts I hear the words in my head in Spike's voice. (You know, Spike from BVS).

It's really weird.

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You know, it's funny. When I read your posts I hear the words in my head in Spike's voice. (You know, Spike from BVS).

It's really weird.
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Well, bearing in mind that Spike's the best character in Buffy, I'll take that as a complement.

It could have something to do with the fact that I'm British as well.

The group of players I've discussed in this thread before (the Limp sodding Bizkit listeners) have managed to pulll off another doozy.

Last Friday night (8/3) I started running a super hero game called Golden Heroes (having told them I wasn't going to run Star Wars because there's already 2 SW games going on). I have put blood, sweat and tears into working out the plot for this game and what happens, they happen. First of all one of the players complains that I expect the PC's to actually form a team (I mean, the nerve. Expecting the PC's in a super hero game to actually form a team just because I spent the last 8 weeks working out the whole bloody game from the stand point of the PC's actually working together). Anyhoo, the first session ran pretty okay (apart from two of the players deciding that their players, despite what I said before, making sure their characters had a get out clause from the whole team by making sure that after 30 days game time they could quit the team) and I was ready and raring to go for session 2. That as they say is where the excretia hit the air conditioning.

First things first. I had to wait to start the game til after 8 because one of the players was watching Jerry Springer and the others were doing character sheets for a Heroes Unlimited game I don't even play in. After that I finally managed to get the game started. First of all one of the players complained that I hadn't done the character creation of one of the PC's (I will add that the player in question had played the game for the first time the week before) because I had dared to give the PC a pair of stun pistols (where the table in question didn't give him the opportunity to have one although the player wanted them because it fitted the idea for the PC) and I hadn't let the other players have a power they weren't allowed to have (although the player in question had rolled about 14 times on a table that was only supposed to have 9 which I figured kind of evened it out). I wound up having to remove the PC's pistols just to shut the player up.

Anyway. The game settled down after that and the session continued until about 20 minutes before the end of the session when the player who had complained about the guns then decided that a NPC who had just arrived on Earth in a battlesuit panicked and damaged a car with a energy blast should be at least put in prison for who knows how long despite the fact that the NPC in question was (a) a alien, and therefore didn't know the law. (b) a princess, and therefore probably entitled to diplomatic immunity and (c) had to be on a planet 3 days away at warp in 3 days to get married and stop a devastating interstellar war. The argument continued until the team disbanded and about all the PC's made it abundently clear that they wouldn't be working together. All in all, about six months work getting the game sorted out down the swanny.

Anyway, am I out of line thinking that this is kind of uncalled for. The thing is it makes me think that I'm running these games wrong.

Not to mention what has happened to my character in one of the Star Wars games. I don't think that a young Jedi character getting (for lack of a better term) violated by a randy Trandoshan was what George Lucas had in mind when he thought up Star Wars.

Sorry about this long post but theirs some things I need to get off my chest before I go and headbutt a wall.

This sounds it like a row, I had with a PC about 8 or 9 years back. I was running a Ad&d 2nd ED. I rolled up an elven mage, and with in a couple of gaming sessions asked if he could use a long sword, as he felt out of it in the combat. He only learned magic missile, not sleep or colour spray. At first I was going to ban it out right as the Mage rules say no weapon that is heavy or needs alot of skill. But the elf rules say that all elfs are trained with Long/Short Sword/Bow in childhood and that is a long time about 20-30 years, I think. So I told to think about come up with a good reason as to why he uses a sword and not a staff or dagger and what it give up to get a sword.

He came back and quote the elven childhood rules to me, and said due to the training needed, he would lose 1 spell per level, e.g. at first level he suddenly had no spell for 2,500 xp, and he would lose the 9th level spells too. He had 18 INT so he could just get 9th levels spells. So I found out that if the PC wish something bad enought he would give far that you would tell him to lose. The others on see what that lost, told the Cleric that she couldnt do the same, she was following Lathander, so she role-played of the course of 6-8 months a slow lost of faith in thiks god and slowly moved alignment too from NG to CN so she could have a god that would allow her use of a sword. Then picked the 2 hand sword as weapon of choice.

Anyway back to Q, do you do anything wrong. Yes and No, but you and your PC's was in the wrong. They wished to do a SW and told them it would be a SH, so from that point you both had to compromine, as you found it you stick to the rules, you he burnt. I dont know the system would the power have upset the game balance too much? If so a couple of Villians immume to that power would solve that.

It's been said before, Silver, but I think you have a basic GM/player incompatibility thing going.

One thing to realise is that in-game solutions won't change anything, they'll just do it again. The only way they'll play along is if they're playing what they want.

Personally, I'd have walked out a long time ago over this. Maybe I'm lucky, but I get to play with friends, which means that while there's a certain amount of negotiation involved, at least it's peaceful, and we don't get players sabotaging the setting. I lay down basic rules, of which the most important is that characters stay within genre - in creation and play - so I don't get superheroes and psychopaths in a Star Trek game, and heroic characters in my fantasy games stay heroic. If players break the genre, I talk to them about it and then throw characters and players out if they don't change :( The point is that the players agree to them when they start.

Yeah, I agree with Imagus. You have to have a strikt boundarie of rules, wich everyone agrees to follow, upfront. First game I narrated, didn't have those, but my new game has. Within those boundaries, everything is possible.

Mischartac.


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Just my Idea

I think of RPGs as collaborative story-telling. If all the people involved don't co-operate, the story suffers. If someone is ruining the story, they need to either change their attitude or find another story that suits their attitude.

Another point: as GM, I reserve the right to decide what music, if any, is on when we game. If "Limp sodding Bizkit" doesn't fit the atmosphere you're striving for (and I can practically guarantee it doesn't), stick a ST CD in the player. If anyone doesn't like it, they know where the door is.

One of my regular players, who also DMs our D&D campaign, has a sign on the front of his GM screen that says,

Lawful Dungeon Master:
My Laws
My Dungeon
Your Master

I don't exactly have a lot of choice of what music gets played while the games on as it's played in someone else's house so it's either Limp Bizkit, Marilyn Manson or (heaven forbid) Slipknot played all the time at high volume levels.

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I don't exactly have a lot of choice of what music gets played while the games on as it's played in someone else's house so it's either Limp Bizkit, Marilyn Manson or (heaven forbid) Slipknot played all the time at high volume levels.

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Silverthorn, I hate to say it, but you should probably find a different group of people to game with. I have always been of the opinion that 90% or playing RPGs is the social aspect of getting together with friends and having fun.

If, for some reason, you're not having fun (and it's quite obvious that the source of the problem is that your players aren't compatible with your gaming style), then one of two things need to happen:

1. The offending players need to leave the group. Since it seems that all of them are being sods, this is probably not the best solution.

2. You need to find a new group.

If you want to keep trying with your current group, see if you can institute a couple of rules:

1. No distractions: IOW, TV is off, and music must be acceptable to everybody in the group, or else it goes off, too. Another option is to trade music days. Each person gets his/her turn choice of music for one session.

2. Have everyone give you a list of games they like to play, then find a couple that everyone can live with....then ask that they stay within the bounds of teamwork when playing those games.

If that works, great. If not, then chuck the entire lot of them and find ppl who you'll actually have fun gaming with.

This has probably all been said before, but here's my two cents (Canadian) worth:

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If, for some reason, you're not having fun (and it's quite obvious that the source of the problem is that your players aren't compatible with your gaming style), then one of two things need to happen:

1. The offending players need to leave the group. Since it seems that all of them are being sods, this is probably not the best solution.

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Depends on whether they're really this unruly in real-life, or just that they can't seem to flow with what Silverthorn is trying to do. If the former, ask 'em to shape up or ship out ... I bet you're not the only one in the group who thinks of the this way. If the latter, then the Narrator needs to learn to roll with the punches and come up with something the players like.

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2. You need to find a new group.

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This seems more likely. From having read only a few of the posts in this thread, it sounds like a genuine incompatibility between Silverthorn's goals and those of the group. Chances are, each player will side with the majority...it's just human nature.

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If you want to keep trying with your current group, see if you can institute a couple of rules:

1. No distractions: IOW, TV is off, and music must be acceptable to everybody in the group, or else it goes off, too. Another option is to trade music days. Each person gets his/her turn choice of music for one session.

2. Have everyone give you a list of games they like to play, then find a couple that everyone can live with....then ask that they stay within the bounds of teamwork when playing those games.

If that works, great. If not, then chuck the entire lot of them and find ppl who you'll actually have fun gaming with.

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I've always been of the opinion that a gaming group only works if everyone agrees on the limits BEFORE the first session. It's certainly fair of the GM/Narrator to ask for players to come ready to play; if they can't find the time because something's on TV, or what have you, then they should definitely miss out when it comes to rewarding them at the end of an adventure. When my players have skipped out for these sort of reasons, I've held their characters back from advancement at a normal pace, to reflect that if the player isn't devoted to the game, thew character isn't devoted to the cause either.

OTOH, I've never seen truly heavy-handed tactics work all that well. Narrators are not, as much as we'd like to think otherwise, gods. Any good adventure worth its salt will develop out of the collaborative efforts of the whole, not a single POV

Silverthorn, you gave the example of your players not wanting to form a superhero team, despite the fact that you based the whole premise of the adventure on a team being in place. SInce peoples is odd, you gotta roll wid da punches... change up some of the elements so that you guide the players into seeing the wisdom of playing as a team... if they still doin't get to that point, then there's nothing wrong with letting 'em fail. Point out, as the omniscient voice of reason, that they might've saved the world, if only they'd pooled their resources.

IOW, work WITH the players; don't expect them to work FOR you. You have an idea how the story should go, but when you introduce one or more "rational" minds, you're bound to see variations crop up... some excellent, some crap. Dat's jus' de way she rolls, boyo.


AND, if all else fails, find a new group, yes. There's bound to be players out there who share philosophies.

I gotta admit I don't think there'll be half the problems if I just stop running games on a Friday night, I like playing the games (despite the sh*t the GM is inflicting on my Jedi in the Star Wars game) but running games is like having teeth pulled.

Thank's for the advice, people's. You've all been a lot of help (I've found posting all this a lot more theraputic than smashing something).

silverthorn? Are you the vaebn who started this thread?

Nope.