Branch colors

Well my eyes have been opened. I assign Chaplin with Father Mulcahey(sp) from MASH http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

I suppose an all around Spirtual Advisor might be the way to go, though I always figured a Conselor would cover that. Still, while I wouldn't use one, I see what you are saying.

While I'm not so fond of more than three colors for departamental identification, I'd really like to see some collar icons (in gold, silver or such) to distinguish the section of that officer, as they do in the military nowadays. For example, a caducius for Medical, a lightning for Communications, etc.

Has anyone came up with 24th century versions of those icons, such as the SF Medical symbol? Because there you'll get me interested.

------------------
Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, No escape from reality

Hey guys, instead of focusing so much on ‘branch colors’ for departments, or even the ‘metal thing’ Doc mentioned by ; how about shoulder applets/patches. Sort of like on some of our modern military, and even ‘trek’ did this until NG (well, not their arm, on their front badge). I see it sort of like this: restore most of the department symbols from say, Mr. Scott’s Guide to the Enterprise. Apply these symbols to a background color visible on the character’s shoulder/arm. Maybe make the symbols in gold and silver (gold for Dept. heads and Dep. Heads, and silver for other personnel). Also think of this advantage: in a crisis if an ensign runs into sickbay (not knowing anybody…his first tour), he’d be able to identify a doctor right away, instead of mistaking a member of science or counseling as medical (hmmm…what should the counselor’s symbol be…a human mind? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif).

------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

As far as the uniforms go . . . why mess with what works . . . I mean three serious . . . same color scheme. It works . . . I use it. Sure I may add a couple things . . . but the basics are the basics.

Command- Red
Security- Golden Orange
Operations- Orange
Science- Light Blue
Medical- Blue
Marines- Green

Now the colors aren't exact, it's not like I've taken a color wheel and looked at the colors I wanted to use . . . maybe one of these days I will :-D But you get where I'm coming from, right? (no offense of course)


As far as the chaplain thing goes . . . being one with some military experience a chaplain is one who serves the spiritual/religious needs of the soldiers. Now they may specialize in one field (the religion they preach normally) but know enough about others that they are able to console those who practice it and be able to do the rituals . . . but usually the rituals are reserved to those who specialize in that religion. For instance . . . you may see a christian chaplain console a jewish soldier . . . but more likely than not you'll see a jewish chaplain reading the torah during a jewish service.

Even though some don't think so, chaplains are a necessary part of any military as long as faith and spirituality exist.

------------------
"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

As far as the uniforms go . . . why mess with what works . . . I mean three serious . . . same color scheme. It works . . . I use it. Sure I may add a couple things . . . but the basics are the basics.

Command- Red
Security- Golden Orange
Operations- Orange
Science- Light Blue
Medical- Blue
Marines- Green

Now the colors aren't exact, it's not like I've taken a color wheel and looked at the colors I wanted to use . . . maybe one of these days I will :-D But you get where I'm coming from, right? (no offense of course)


As far as the chaplain thing goes . . . being one with some military experience a chaplain is one who serves the spiritual/religious needs of the soldiers. Now they may specialize in one field (the religion they preach normally) but know enough about others that they are able to console those who practice it and be able to do the rituals . . . but usually the rituals are reserved to those who specialize in that religion. For instance . . . you may see a christian chaplain console a jewish soldier . . . but more likely than not you'll see a jewish chaplain reading the torah during a jewish service.

Even though some don't think so, chaplains are a necessary part of any military as long as faith and spirituality exist.

------------------
"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

as far as the "Branch" symbol you were talking about . . . that would be a far better idea . . . cause it causes for less clutter . . . which I think the producers were going for. Have them like on the other collar, opposite the pips or bars.

That's the idea: less clutter. There's why I didn't suggest the pads as they're made today.

I like that idea for the Counseling section! A little, outlined head viewed from a side, with a semicircle inside it, representing the brain... really abstract and quick to identify http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Now we only need competent artists http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Wow, it seems I killed the topic! http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/eek.gif

Seriously, nobody want to give the icons a try? They would also serve as the identification badge for the department...

Not really . . . I'll run with it with you . . . however, Branch color and Job Specific Collor emplets are really just semantics to the series and the game in general. Therefore, most don't see it as increadibly important to discuss. So this is just a couple of us GMers (Narrators, DMs, etc.) just swaping ideas that's all. It's not like this'll be something that will SERIOUSLY effect game play.

Hmm . . . I would suggest looking at the US Navies Enlisted and Officer Branch organization for the symbol ideas. Their rather thorough about it. Furthermore those branches have come from a long naval history, which Starfleet emulates for the most part, and more so than any other military branch out their. You don't see Majors or Colonels (Sp) as XOs and COs of Starships.

Here are links that can help:
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...s/navrate.html
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/.../rankrate.html

Note: Officers who are not considered part of Staff Corps are considered Line Officers (which MOST are).


------------------
"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

Believe me, those badges and the ones on the Argentinian Navy (I worked for three months in the Naval Hospital drugstore... plenty of inspiration and information for Starfleet there!) made me think about the idea of the icons.

But, as Starfleet Medical has its future version of the caducius, which could be the future versions of the rest of the departmental symbols? I'm talking 'iconization' here: a major abstraction of the spark for Comm, the wheel for Navigation, and don't let me start with the Chaplain (impossible task to find a wide-representative symbol! Maybe they should use their own religion's symbol.)

Tango Fleet did something about this, but their department shields still look too similar to today's symbols, and some are too complex for a badge.

Not a badge . . . those are to big and would most likely be on ones shoulder . . . which I think would be to much clutter. I was thinking like . . .

The Pips . . . they're on the Right side right? Well doesn't really matter . . . on the opposite side is where it would go . . . a little metal emplet of sorts . . . Kinda like how in the US Army Officers have on one collar their rank . . . and on the other collar their main branch.

------------------
"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

Quote:

---

Originally posted by AslanC:
I have to ask...why does a Starfleet vessel have a Chaplain?

Not looking to bust yer balls, just curious why a Christian priest gets pref over the other religions?

---

I never said he was a Christian chaplain...just a chaplain.

Why does a Starfleet vessel have a Chaplain, you ask?

Simple. I wanted to create one, and as I'm as big a fan of MASH as I am of Trek, I wanted my own Father Mulcahy.

No balls busted, AslanC.

------------------
"Now then, pendejo, let's see what kind of swordsman you've become." -- Juan Sanchez Villalobos Ramirez

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Paul:
...coin can be heard dropping into slot...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the term Chaplain in this case is not necessarily a specific reference to a practitioner of the Christian Faith, but rather, by Star Trek times, a generic title given to that person who fulfils religious duties aboard starships.

The Chaplain would be knowledgable in several religions (Islam, Christianity, Andorian faith, Vulcan faith, Betazoid faith, for example), and would be a recognised religious figure on a ship, he would also have enough theological background to become capable enough (with a little research, if need be) to cope with some more obsure faiths if required (Wicker People faith).

---

To quote Ed McMahon, "You are correct, sir!"

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JALU3:
Not a badge . . . those are to big and would most likely be on ones shoulder . . . which I think would be to much clutter. I was thinking like . . .

The Pips . . . they're on the Right side right? Well doesn't really matter . . . on the opposite side is where it would go . . . a little metal emplet of sorts . . . Kinda like how in the US Army Officers have on one collar their rank . . . and on the other collar their main branch.

---

Hey hey hey... stay cool! http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif If I don't mean modern military, if I refer to a Starfleet Department badge, icon, pin or whatever, we'll mean a 2-cm piece of gold or silver metal carved to the shape of the branch's shield or representative image, and worn on the left side of the uniform collar, opposite to the rank pips and in the same line of the commbadge.

How's that? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

I wasn't upset . . . sorry if I came off that way . . . but I like where you're going.

------------------
"See Everything; overlook a great deal; correct a little." -Pope John XXIII

Bashir you there?

Me here, no worry. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

I'm still thinking on something with some design knowledge to simplify the badges to a 24th Century version, but I'm clueless. Anyone out there who wants to help? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif

------------------
Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, No escape from reality

OK, first things first . . . what are the several departments? We need a complete list of branches to be able to do this.

Geez, I didn’t know this forum was still going…anywhoz http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Doc, I can see your point on the ‘clutter’, and see your ‘vision’ of an appellate on the opposite side of the collar to the pips (probably looking something like O’Brian’s CoO badge).

I just had a thought about this whole ‘Department’ thing, and that is; take a step back…to say the 23rd Cent. See; what are the 24th Cent. communicators shaped like? The ‘Department’ badges of the ‘the fleet’ form 23rd Cent. (the fact that they look like the ‘original’ Enterprise’s isn’t coincidence, ‘cause that became the fleet-norm after its legendary run…). With this in mind, just slap an insignia on the front of the communicator, the voila; departmental recognition (you could even do something like putting those insignias in departmental colors on the badge…accept those in Ops, Engineering, or Security/Tactical, those should be outlines ‘cause gold-on-gold…doesn’t really work http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif)


------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

Excellent thought, Modem! I forgot about the three branch symbols of the Original Series. And, by applying them to the commbadge, it's another good possibility for it (not to mention that now we have factible and recognizable Science, Command and Engineering symbols for it).

------------------
Chakotay: You didn't poison my coffee, did you?
Janeway: Not any more than I usually do.
"The Voyager Conspiracy", Voyager

It was my assumption that the ship's councilor took care of such matters, but Hey, since the TOS Enterprise had a chapel, why not have a chaplin, at least through the 1-6 movie era...

------------------
Even in this age of technological wonders, the human mind is still the most powerful weapon in the universe.

Hey, you’re welcome Doc…though you didn’t mention if you liked my other idea (putting the icons on the combadges in departmental color, accept for Engineering, Security/Tactical, and Ops, ‘cause….you know http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif).

Another thing hit me on this thought/idea:
We know the icons for Command, Science, Medical, and Engineering; what should be for Counseling, Security/Tactical (weapons and defense a) doesn’t cut and b) sucks…IMO http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif), and Ops (and SEALS, and Marines, and whateverelse…if you use them)

(Also) Any thoughts on uses of/designing for alternative-styled ranking pips (sort of like what Voyager did for the Maquis crew). I’m thinking; Officer Exchange Programs, and such (well, they wouldn’t have to change uniforms, but now there ranks would be recognizable)


------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

It does convince me, but just to a certain point. Even when, in the past, it was a uniform directive, it's kind of difficult to look at, and the modern combadges are smaller, thus the symbol should be even smaller.

It's a possibility... http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Meanwhile, we still need someone with a certain graphic ability to design the icons. Anyone out there? http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif

------------------
Chakotay: You didn't poison my coffee, did you?
Janeway: Not any more than I usually do.
"The Voyager Conspiracy", Voyager

Yeah Doc, I know the symbols/icons would be smaller, that’s why I suggested color on the badge (to counter the silver…of the …you know; come to think of it: how badges are now, gold could be used for Engineering, Tactical/Security, and Ops…oh well, back to the issues at hand.
Icon can be found here: http://www.startrekpins.com/trek5.htm
and

But, I would suggest we come up with a better symbol for Tac/Sec than the “crosshairs” (maybe even separate one for each Dept.)(oh, sorry; I was reading "Mr Scott's..."and that's were I saw that icon). And of course a symbol would have to made for counselor (hmm…a brain with a star…naa, that’d suck)



------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

What I proposed for the Counseling branch, was a little outlined humanoid head seen from a side, with a little circle or oval in the upper area, symbolizing the brain. The oval should be carved into the head shape, so it looks good.

I can picture it in gold and it looks good.

------------------
Chakotay: You didn't poison my coffee, did you?
Janeway: Not any more than I usually do.
"The Voyager Conspiracy", Voyager

What about unit badges for Fighter Wings and SMC/RRF units

I have been keen on the comm badge idea for a long time. Hey, here ideas of what they might look like, since these are already pins (so you can see them as 3d photos).
http://www.hollywoodpins.com/classic.html

Here is my vote for the missing ones.
Security/Tactical=shield (but didn't the tactical stations in the TOS movies have a hexagonal shape symbol? kind of like the empire's symbol from Star Wars.)
RRT=sword
fighter pilot=eagle. Or perhaps the command badge with wings?
councelor=the brain thing is a good idea.

Doc:
I also found this one (was going to post it originally, but couldn’t find it):
http://eas3.exit.mytoday.de/stmagazi...ems-2266-1.jpg
Don’t know about your ‘Councilor’ dep. icon…still, better then mine http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif; one thing is sure though, I’d still put the icons in their ‘true’ dep. colors. Why? Because: a) it’s better continuity, and b) even the ‘gold’ icon (of ‘Eng’, ‘Tact’, and ‘Sec’) would show up on the silver background)(and if there is a problem with see the icon, then thicken the line of the icon)

Security/Tactical: funny, I was going to mention that symbol…anyway; that symbol should use for Tactical ‘cauce the ‘hex-shield and crosshairs’ (yes that’s how it looked…), don’t really suit Security (of course what does? Handcuffs? Just think of the reaction to that http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif)
Fighter Pilot: Totally agree with Mig; the wing-thing works (heck, you even use them in out-croppings of the Combadge).
R.C.C.:Sword?…don’t think so, I think a shield would be more appropriate (the way I read ‘em anyway)
The Marines had the symbol, (well…according to FASA http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif): of sideways lightning bolts. I think in the ‘here and now’ those could be reused, but maybe ‘reangled’ them so they fit better (or go to a single one)


------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Modem:
Security/Tactical: funny, I was going to mention that symbol…anyway; that symbol should use for Tactical ‘cauce the ‘hex-shield and crosshairs’ (yes that’s how it looked…), don’t really suit Security (of course what does? Handcuffs? Just think of the reaction to that http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif)
Fighter Pilot: Totally agree with Mig; the wing-thing works (heck, you even use them in out-croppings of the Combadge).
R.C.C.:Sword?…don’t think so, I think a shield would be more appropriate (the way I read ‘em anyway)
The Marines had the symbol, (well…according to FASA http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif): of sideways lightning bolts. I think in the ‘here and now’ those could be reused, but maybe ‘reangled’ them so they fit better (or go to a single one)

---

It would be hard to fit on a combadge, but how about replaceing the globe in the current Royal Marines emblem with the UFP "circle & stars", and change the motto to something like "Per Astrum, Per Terrum" (pardom my horrid attempt at Latin) or some such. The Starfleet Marines sim I play in with Star Trek: Genesis uses the USMC logo with the globe replace w/ the "circle & stars". ( www.stgenesis.com if you're interested. We're the Furies sim) The anchor, globe, & eagle USMC emblem would fit nicely on a combadge. Now, if memory serves, one of the conspiritors in ST:6 was addressed as Major. That sounds like Marines or other ground forces. Did anyone catch some sort of distinctive logo on his uniform?

Jon

------------------
If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!

There was Colonel West, he was briefing the president on a plan to rescue Kirk and McKoy and if the Klingon had tried anything we would have "cleaned their chronometers."
He was also the guy with the sniper rifle whom Scotty shot at the end.

------------------
"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"

Here's a thought for the Marine /Ground Forces uniform. Take the movie-era jacket & pants, and make them in more marine-like colors? For their service "Class B" uniforms, make the jacket a dark green with black piping, subdued communicator & belt buckle, and give the trousers a dark red stripe for NCO's & Officers. For the Dress Blues, Marine Blue jacket with dark red piping, lighter blue trousers with the same striping as above, & shiny belt buckle & comm-badge. For utilities, go with the Dominion War uniform, with a dark green undershirt & subdued comm-badge. And, of course, cammies in the field... None of this service uniforms with bright shoot-me! stripes in the boonies, dammit!

Jon

------------------
If not for physics & law enforcement, I'd be unstoppable!

I like to stick to the basic three colors, I don't want to signal the enemy exactly what my personnel do. Something that I like to borrow from "Prime Directive" for my security officers is field armor and skirmish armor. Note: This equipment is new as of 2374 for my game. It represents lessons learned by Starfleet.
The field armor is light-weight and worn under the duty uniform jacket. It is a quilted mesh able to absorb physical/kinetic(+2) and energy(+1) damage. It only protects the upper body. Wt. 1.5 kg.
The skirmish armor looks like armor, sort of the Starfleet version of Klingon armor or the Colonial Marine armor form "Aliens". It is composed of plates of ablative alloys to stop energy attacks with a ballistic fabric lining to stop physical/KE attacks. It protects the groin, torso, chest, and shoulder areas. Also can be issued with a helmet which includes commink and targeting HUD in addition to armor protection. Protection is physical/kinetic (+3), energy (+2). Helmet gives +1 bonus to attacks and searches in all conditions. Armor Wt. 4 kg., helmet wt. 1.5 kg.
For field ops the uniform is camouflage created specifically for the environment it is to be used in. Data from intelligence and recon reports is inputed to computers which generated a pattern which is in turn sent to the replicators. The uniform in design resembles the standard duty uniform but has cargo pockets on the chest and legs.
A combat harness is also issued. It is a tactical load bearing vest. It has pouches and attachment points for power packs, grenades, and other equipment. wt. 1 kg.

------------------
"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"

Just out of curiosity what was the vessel in Aliens that the USMC came on?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by JALU3:
Just out of curiosity what was the vessel in Aliens that the USMC came on?

---

Solarko Least thats what it sounded like.

------------------
SIRSIG :D
AKA: SirPostalot
AKA: The MapMaker
AKA: The Trek Cartographer
AKA:...Well I could keep going forever ;)

It would be the Sulaco, although they never clarified what class of vessel it was, perhaps the comics from a few years back made that clear...

------------------
Dan.

"Hi, I'm Commander Troy McClure, you might remember me from other academy training holo-simulations as, Abandon Ship, the quickest way out, and I sense danger, 101 things you dont need a Betazoid to know..."

http://www.theventure.freeserve.co.uk

It was a light assault transport. It was supposed to carry a maximum of a marine battalion. But remember there were only 4 man squads so that not as many troops as it sounds like. It was armed with ASAT missiles, particle beam cannon, laser cannon, railguns, and nukes.
I have a copy of the Colonial Marine Tech Manual.

------------------
"Retreat?! Hell, we just got here!"

[This message has been edited by Antonsb214 (edited 07-03-2001).]

Thanks, I was thinking about naming an Excelsior Starship by that name for a later game involving a captured Cardassian Planet.

In the former words of character, of a man who would be Captain (real soon…): Hoo boy…

I agree to sticking to ‘three basic colors’…if you don’t bring in Marines, S.E.A.L.s, and other branches that don’t really ‘fit’ the mold (like; I personally never liked Intelligence being stacked into Ops/Tact./Sec., so I gave ‘em gray uniforms)

Whether the marines exist or not is something argued elsewhere (but your points are valid…)

(The guy Scotty shot depends on which version you saw [some have Scotty shooting a “Klingon”, whom tuns out to the Col. Wearing a mask, but some even edit that])

SULACO is the name of the ship (in Aliens), but the script (seen @: http://www.screentalk.org/moviescripts/Aliens.pdf), says the ship was really a "Military Trasport"(an old one at that). This actually explains how it could carry so much, and required a ‘cargo technician’(or whatever Riply's title was)

And Cybrludite; I do agree with “no bright colors”, or shinny


------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

Back to the subject of captains and admirals in red (or not)...

If an officer takes command of a ship or base, then he must transfer to the command branch if not already there, and thus wear red (in TNG era). If he comes up through the ranks never having held a field command, then he would retain his original branch.

So... it's entirely possible (and I don't think there's any on-screen evidence to the contrary) for a desk-bound captain or admiral to wear mustard or teal.

I'm sure we could concoct some excuse for Jadzia never switching, but really that's just because she wouldn't have looked as good with red. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
-- "Since the whiskey belongs to me, and it's on me, lets drink to me!"

[This message has been edited by Sho-sa Kurita (edited 07-06-2001).]

Oh, I quite agree with you Sho-sa Kurita:
If a character didn’t branch in to Command, then they should be allowed to wear their favored ‘branch’ color with their new rank (regardless of level…even Admiral)(or maybe switch back from red if the position is one of say a ‘Branch Admiral’ http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif)


------------------
...and that's about the time it hit the fan...