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And I am sure they are with them - at least for my part and I know nobody who feels not that way. I nearly cried when I heard that and tears were coming to my eyes when I saw it. Again I am almost crying.Quote:
Originally posted by Capt Daniel Hunter
As somebody else already pointed out, this is a loss for all off us, but our deepst sympathies should be with the family and friends of those who died.
I've been glued to my T.V. set for the better part of the day flipping from channel to channel to hear the experts speak.
Its a terrible loss to NASA, to the families and overall to all of us.
I just hope that this accident puts things back into perspective and they finally retire the aging fleet. And maybe its time Congress took away the monopoly of space flight from NASA.
What a crappy way to start the new year...:( :( :(
If they retire the fleet, what are they going to use? Should we put a hold on the program based on the hope that a re-useable new design will come along sometime in the future? That could take decades.
NASA seems to be the whipping boy of the US scientific community, they carry off 105 successful missions, but when 2 missions do go wrong then they get kicked in the nuts.
Let's keep things in perspective here, this mission was no. 107 and in that time only two, 3 if you include Apollo I, accidents have happened. That is a failure rate of only 11% (or a fatality rate of 1.9%), now I am not trivializing the deaths of those 14 (17+Apollo I) souls, but if we terminate the space program, or even delay it for a great length of time then they will have died in vain. Those people, and their ralatives, knew the risks of what they were doing as soon as they put the mission patch on their shoulder. They were scientists and explorers...That explroation must continue. When this type of thing happens we are all quick to point fingers...NASA should have done that, or should have did that. We forget all the intensive time and manpower that does go into the launch process so things like this doesn't happen, but we will never be 100% successful, accidents will happen. It is the way of things.
In his message today, the President said that their "cause" will continue. The manned space program isn't going anywhere.
May God be with the families of the lost astronauts :(
We have a design for a new Shuttle already, don't we? I'll see if I can find a picture of it, but I swear I've seen one.
Here it is:
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRHe...2/FR9612m1.JPG
Just as with Challenger and her crew, I'm devastated at the loss of Columbia and her crew.
I'm not a praying man, but my thoughts go out to everyone directly affected by this tragedy, from family members to NASA employees and everyone else.
It's long been my opinion that mankind belongs in space, exploring what's behind the next moon, what's on the next planet, what's around the next star. Manned spaceflight should and must continue. Ending the space program now would insult the memories of all the cosmonauts and astronauts who have died making the first advances into space.
This is almost too much to go through again. I hope my babbling isn't too incoherant.
We can't stop now, we've gone too far and lost too much to quit. We're paying the price for the knowledge we need to go farther, faster, and higher in the future. And we have a crew on the space station that needs support and that comes from our shuttles. We need to find out what happened and get the shuttles up again. I believe we also need to have a new space shuttle, I know this will cost an obscene amount of money and resources, but we have to press on. We will have to pick ourselves up, mourn our dead, and honor their memory in our actions. These astronauts (of all nations) are the heroes we should idolize, not some pro athlete who is paid millions to play a game, or a pop star that should wear more clothes, but someone who volunteers to be strapped to thousands of tons of high explosives, and then sets them off.
Sorry, but I'm just having trouble putting thoughts together today...:(
That was the so-called "Delta-Clipper". The project was cancelled when they had problems with the prototype being too flimsy.Quote:
Originally posted by Rayaru
May God be with the families of the lost astronauts :(
We have a design for a new Shuttle already, don't we? I'll see if I can find a picture of it, but I swear I've seen one.
This is sad news, and no matter how unsurprised I am to see this happening once again when the shuttles are in said to be in such a bad shape, deeply I can't believe it happened (I could hardly say again, I was born in the 80's and only saw Challenger on TV a decade or so after it happened). I'd say that it is time to transfer some much needed money from the over priced military (like the missile shield which has eaten billions upon billions, but unlike NASA, has not even begun conception or construction) to the Space Program, and maybe the program could be Panamericanised in exchange for financial support from the nations of the continent... It could be very little in comparison with the whole military budget, but enough to revive the Shuttle program...
My initial thought when I first heard about it was "Oh, God. Not again."
I'm still thinking it.
I have just three words, which I'm sure, if I actually believed in an afterlife, would be being uttered by all those killed from Apollo I, Challenger and now Columbia (along with the Russian fatalities, which I cannot recall at the moment, sorry).
"Don't Stop Now!"
These amazing people - as someone described: "The best and brightest" of us - would be the last people who would want the space program cancelled as a result of this.
Exploration is dangerous. It was dangerous for the guys in skins, carrying flint-headed spears, who crossed ice-packs 30,000 years ago...it was dangerous for the Renaissance explorers who mapped out the planet...and it's dangerous for the cream of humanity that go up there now.
With all the disagreements currently active on this board, with all the broad and diverse spectrum of political views, if there is one thing we can all agree on, one common thread that brings us here, it is that we love a set of stories rooted in exploration.
To see another group of these people killed is tragic.
Let's not dishonour their memories by shutting down the very thing they gave their lives for. Let's keep going out there, and make our place, and remember the sacrifice made by these people so that we can solve a lot of our problems.
I for one, in my own small way, will be remembering them.
Seven new Galaxy class ships have just been commissioned in my campaign.
NCC-76984 USS Husband
NCC-77043 USS McCool
NCC-77076 USS Anderson
NCC-77121 USS Ramon
NCC-77140 USS Chawla
NCC-77201 USS Brown
NCC-77284 USS Clark
I know it's not much...but for me, it's significant.
For everything else...I'll simply remember the words of my sig. line.
I have always been disappointed that my party the Republican Party has never really "gotten" or understood the need for space exploration. After all those Sicentist are too liberial I guess and vote Democrate :rolleyes: When given a choice between going to Mars or the Shuttle program in the 70's NASA was more or less forced into deciding on the "cheeper" shuttle due to a lack of will in Nixons administration for continued large scale space exploration and its large scale budgeted matters. Hell there's a rumor that Nixon aids forced him to make any public statements on the Moon Landing! The original second generation shuttle program got gutted under Reagan in the early 80's and eventually disappeared altogether. the result an aged fleet of shuttles which have been used longer then they were expected to and no replacements in sight :mad: Maybe things will change and Bush will be the first Republican since Eisenhower to finally "get it".
Agian my thoughts never too far from the thick thickets & woods and rolling hills of East Texas this evening. I also take some comfort in the thought that they did for 16 days have that brief joy of knowing what space travel was like and to gaze upon our home in all of its glory unhindered by the lines and colors of the map maker dividing us into us and them and seeing just us.
No on this issue I am not proud too be a Republican :(
Quote:
Makes me wonder if the Iraqis even know what the term "Wrath of God" means. Just ask Japan about our (The US's) greatest evil...:mad:
I'm not saying we should, but we are, sadly enough, capable of this evil... :(
And while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespass'd sanctity of space
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.
In WW1, there was a wildly popular French ace named Georges Guynemer. When he was killed in action, French schoolchildren were told that he had flown so high the angels wouldn't let him back down.
Why did it have to be Columbia?! I remember when she landed after her first flight. I was a teenage junior high student in Canada, the only American in my class, and they brought TVs into the classrooms so we could see the landing. I felt such a rush of pride in my nation, and even my most ardent Canadian friends shook my hand and offered congratulations.
Godspeed, Columbia.
Yeah, but Bush just lifted the injunction on nuclear power on space missions from the old anti-nuke treaties. That just gave us the shot at bigger launch windows and more workable Moon/Mars missions.Quote:
Originally posted by Eric R.
I have always been disappointed that my party the Republican Party has never really "gotten" or understood the need for space exploration. :(
It ain't over yet...
As a Texan, I am stunned and horrified by this disaster....I'm still shudderng at the news that a piece of debris was found in my hometown of Arlington...I've been to Palestine so I can imagine the shock down there...it brings back the memory of Challenger; I was in college getting ready for a class when a student dashed in and annouced what happened...after class, I watched a TV showing the explosion with several classmates.
However, there is a silver lining of good news to this horror; amazingly, no one on the ground was hurt or killed by the falling debris...I can only thank God for this miracle.
Aldaron -- thanks for your above post, it says much of what I would have.
Some other notes. Despite this being STS107, it was the 150th shuttle mission. To put 150 missions in perspective for those of your calling for peoples' heads and crying about irresponsibility (and perhaps not all that acquainted with some important statistics) -- NASA calculates the odds of a shuttle launch/recovery being completed successfully at 1:125 !!! So here we are on mission 150 and we have our second shuttle gone. And everyone knew it could happen, and that they really couldn't get better odds at this point. By comparison roughly 1 in 30 unmanned rocket launches fails. That's 1 in 30. Anyone notice, the families of the astronauts crying foul? They're more familiar with goings-on that any of the rest of us.
Has the shuttle fleet been in continuous service longer than originally planned? Yes. Do they consider it decrepit? No. It is unfortunate we're not on the 3rd generation by now, but we aren't, and unless we want to scrap any work on the ISS we can't just stop shuttle launches either. If it weren't for people and programs like the shuttles those of us in the New World wouldn't even be here, so hat's off to the brave.
-- Daniel
I'd like to just clarify something, I never meant to say that NASA should have its program cancelled. I meant to say that its monopoly should be taken away. That way any american corporation can build and train astronauts to ship them into space. The more people you have working on something from different backgrounds, the better. NASA should always continue its program as part of the government's needs.
Some sick irony here... I learned about this only when coming home, after a nice game of Star Trek with some friends (when we usually shut off the radio, TV and Internet).
As I write, I'm watching the pictures of the accident for the first time.
This is a sad reminder of the fact that our space program is very much alike the first men who were sailing overseas on some planks tied together.
May these astronauts rest in peace.
I hope this will awaken the decaying space programs of every nations.
Of all the insensitive outright propaganda TRASH:mad: :mad: :mad:Quote:
Screw the Army, I'm going to get a couple of the Boy's from Brooklyn and they'll take care of 'em
PLEASE NOTE: The above rant was not intended to belittle the US Army or what they do and the risks they take.
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It's true, I saw some video of a news report with some interviews. However, I also saw today member of the Iraqi National Assembly express sympathy, so, like with all things, opinions do differ.Quote:
Originally posted by StyroFoam Man
If it's even true. Could be propaganda by the US Government to incite more Anger Twords Iraq.
Allen
I have been trying to figure out how to express how much we need the space program, and I remembered a quote that expresses it perfectly. Sorry, but it's not from Star Trek; it's from Babylon 5.
"Is it worth it? Should we just pull back, forget the whole thing as a bad idea and take care of our own problems at home?"
"No. We have to stay here and there's a simple reason why. Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe and Lao-Tzu and Einstein and Morobuto and Buddy Holly and Aristophenes .. and all of this .. all of this was for nothing unless we go to the stars."
-- Mary Ann Cramer interviews Cmdr. Sinclair in Babylon 5:"Infection"
Allen
Or, to put it more succinctly:
"To boldly go where no-one has gone before..."
I do hope this doesn't end the US space program. But I agree that NASA should no longer have the monopoly. The European Space Agency does some good work, but can't attract the funding. NASA (up until the financial disaster that is the ISS) seemed to have money thrown at it. I just hope that this tragedy wasn't a result of decreased funding over recent years (the "better, cheaper, faster" approach of the previous NASA boss never quite cut it IMHO).
They will never truly die, as long as we remember, and as long as we carry that same spirit of adventure in our hearts.
They were intrepid explorers, pushing back the boundaries of our knowledge with selfless courage, and they paid the ultimate price. My thoughts go out to them and their families.
I hope that NASA and other space agencies (both public and private, worldwide) take the resolve of those astronauts and make it their own. It would be the greatest memorial they could build.
Martin Glen
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http://www.treknews.de/treknews/gall...lw_tribute.jpg
quite a good picture if you ask me.
True, but it's important to remember that the Russian program was as much responsible for getting us where we are as our own, first as compeditors, now as partners.
Quote:
Originally posted by Chang
yes don't forget those russians who have given their lives, but I was thinking of the US space program.
Those "gentlemen" will shortly have more pressing concerns.
I wonder, when they are hiding under a table and estimating how thick the walls are, whether they will reconsider where God might be placing His vengeance...
Quote:
Someone posted this on another web site I frequent. I thought I'd share it here:
This is dedicated to the crew of Apollo I, to the crews of the orbiters Challenger and Columbia. This is dedicated to all people of all nations, past, present, and future, lost while bravely challenging our limits and perceptions.
A Tale of the Sea, the Wind, and the Void.
By André “Moose” Maillet
Early in our History, we were limited to where our feet could take us, with whatever goods we could carry on our backs or drag behind us.
We were limited.
Eventually, we learned how to harness the Sea, and built ships which could carry far more goods than we could alone. We learned how to harness the Wind so that ships could be sailed with smaller crews.
And ships were lost, for the Sea is a harsh and fickle mistress.
And crews were lost, for the Wind is just as harsh and fickle a master as is the Sea.
And only a few things had to go wrong to lose a ship with all hands.
Still, we who survived learned from the Sea and from the Wind how to make bigger, faster, stronger and safer ships. And we were better able to harness the Sea. And we were better able to harness the Wind.
And we were limited to the Coast and to where our feet could take us.
Still, we stayed within sight of the Coast, for the Sea is vast.
When there is naught but the Sea, and naught but the Wind around you, it is all too easy to become disoriented. Disoriented, we could run out of supplies. We could be unable to find anchorage if the Wind, in His spite, raised a tempest, and the ships, and the crews, would be lost. Even with a gentle Wind, we could and did miss our landfall, and we starved.
Eventually, we discovered Magnetism and learned how to navigate using the World's magnetic field. We discovered that by measuring the height of certain Stars in the Void, we could determine how far north or south we were. We learned to determine the speed of our ships and the speed of the currents, and we could then determine how far east or west we were.
We learned to navigate, and were able to sail out of sight of the Coast.
Eventually, we found a large, sparsely settled Land. And we came. Your ancestors came. My ancestors came.
We came to build new lives for ourselves and formed great Nations, Cities, and Cultures. Nations that exist yet to this day.
And we never stopped building bigger and better ships, and we never stopped learning better ways to harness the Sea and the Wind.
Still, we lost ships, and crews. For still, we are at the mercy of the Sea. For the Sea is still a harsh and fickle mistress and what She wants, She takes.
We eventually learned how to harness the Wind in a new way. And we took to the Sky. And we were no longer at the mercy of the Sea. And we were no longer limited to the Coast. And we were no longer limited to where our feet could take us.
We took to the Sky and the surface of our World held few secrets from us.
And still, we lost aircraft, and crews. For the Wind is a harsh and fickle master.
And we who survived learned how to make bigger and safer aircraft, and learned to go further, and faster, and carry more goods with us.
And still we lost aircraft, and crews, for the Wind is a harsh and fickle master, and what He wants, He takes.
And we learned how to sail 'neath the Sea and return. And we were no longer at the mercy of the Wind, for we could sink 'neath the tempests and return when the Wind was calm.
And we lost submersibles, and crews, for the Sea is a harsh and fickle mistress.
And we who survived learned how to make bigger and safer submersibles. And we learned to better harness the Sea and carry more goods.
And still we lost submersibles, and crews, for the Sea is a harsh and fickle mistress, and what She wants, She takes.
And we learned to harness the Void, and return. And we were no longer at the mercy of the Sea, and we were no longer at the mercy of the Wind. And we were no longer limited to the World, which held few secrets from us. And we were no longer limited to the Coasts, nor to where our feet could take us.
And we lost spacecraft, and crews, for the Void is a harsh and fickle mistress, and what She wants, She takes.
And we lost spacecraft, and crews, for the Wind is jealous of the Void, and contrary in His spite. And what He wants, He takes.
And we lost spacecraft, and crews.
And we who survive shall learn to build bigger and safer spacecraft to carry more goods and go further, and faster. And we shall learn to better harness the Void, and to soothe the Wind so He will no longer be jealous of the Void.
And we will go to the Stars. Your descendants. My descendants. We will go to the Stars to build new lives for ourselves. And we will form new Nations, new Cities, and new Cultures.
And the Stars will hold few secrets from us.
Still, we will lose spacecraft, and crews, for the Void is a harsh and fickle mistress, and what She wants, She will take.
But we will no longer be limited.
Great, Let me add the "Ye Olde Holy SMACKDOWN"tmQuote:
Originally posted by Liz Not Beth
The IBG Leauge has stepped up its Overseas Smitting Program. We anticipate total smitting of the middle-east to be complete within the week. :D
Very Elegant and Nicely done. Kudos to the Artist!:D :)Quote:
Originally posted by Evan van Eyk
http://www.treknews.de/treknews/gall...lw_tribute.jpg
quite a good picture if you ask me.
I forget the byline on the ABC version of the story, but I saw the same story on Reuters. If they're a propaganda shill for GWB, I'm a Democrat. :pQuote:
Originally posted by StyroFoam Man
If it's even true. Could be propaganda by the US Government to incite more Anger Twords Iraq.
Just watched the memorial on CNN, very nicely done. I think they would have been pleased.
Good-bye Columbia 7.
"...continue pushing on."
-Commander Rick Husband