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No, there aren't.Quote:
Originally posted by Aldaron
Are there personal transporter inhibitors? The only time I can remember anything to do with transporters were the pattern-enhancers (the trio of posts set up on the ground to help beam stuff), and the garden-lamp-post-like inhibitors they used in Insurrection.
Hi,
New to this forum but in reading your posts you all seem to have forgotten the DS9 Season 7 episode The Siege of AR-558. Whilst there are clearly engineering and command crew there were what could be considered Starfleet ground force crew.
Although that side I do get the impression (especially from this episode) that all Starfleet officers go through some form of basic ground combat training at the Acadamy. How else would Dr Bashir be able to hold his own against the Jem Hadar on AR-558 with a rifle.
But given the Borg Threat/Dominion War and the shake up of Starfleet policy it generated (development of pure warships like the Akira, Sabre, Steamrunner, Defiant and Prometheus classes) it would seem fairly cannon that Starfleet would also initiate some form of specialised infantry units if only for defence purposes.
JonA
Well in Bashir's case the explanation is in the character's make up from the start. Julian was a gung ho type of guy even though he was a Doctor he wanted to see action, thats what got him and O'Brian in some early misadventures and don't forget the basic leason he surely learned in the various holoprograms the two participated in.Quote:
Originally posted by JonA
Hi,
Although that side I do get the impression (especially from this episode) that all Starfleet officers go through some form of basic ground combat training at the Acadamy. How else would Dr Bashir be able to hold his own against the Jem Hadar on AR-558 with a rifle.
JonA
My take on the Starfleet Marines (ground forces, whatever) existence or nonexistence can be summed up with the following thought:
It really doesn't matter whether the Federation believes in having a standing ground force, as long as their potentially hostile neighbors believe in having one.
When the Klingons/Dominion/Alien-Of-The-Week shows up at your planet with his ground pounders, you'd better have some of your own to hold your facilities with.
In response to the transporter tactics ideas: A transporter is a very fickle thing to trust the lives of your people to... There are lots of canon things that can screw with Transporters.
The notion that 'Security' personnel can be used as combatants is shaky at best, as well. You wouldn't send the LAPD to storm Omaha Beach, would you? Two completely different mission parameters...
Just my two cents...
The notion that 'Security' personnel can be used as combatants is shaky at best, as well. You wouldn't send the LAPD to storm Omaha Beach, would you? Two completely different mission parameters...
Actually, this is a problem faced by a lot of modern police forces. Where does one draw the line between police force and military force? The police have SWAT, and the military has MPs, so there is crossover. Also, I remember the security professions in the player's guide. One was an investigator (read cop), while the other was a tactical officer (read soldier). The tactical officer had tactics skill, which implies general tactical ability, whether ground or space. If I wanted to create a "ground-pounder" I would use the tactical officer and increase energy weapon, tactics, and probably survival. That would focus him more on ground combat than space, which would have a high system operation. Just my opinion.
Just an extra thought.
I was watching Waltz (Deep Space Nine, Season 6), the one where Sisko and Dukat are stranded on a planet and the Defiant is sent to look for them.
The Defiant was working on a limited timescale as it had to rendez-vous with a Federation Troop Convoy containing 20,000 troops en-route to the frontline from the Badlands.
I think this would settle any argument about whether or not there is any troops in the Federation given that they are referred to clearly in the script of an episode (can't get more cannonical than that).
Just a thought.
Thn why did they never show us the troops???I mean how hard would it have been to do Federation Marines? Yes they talked about them but never showed them onscreen .
I'd say because it wasn't essential to the plot of the episode to show them. The episode was about Dukat, Sisko and the search for them.
I still reckon the mention of 20,000 Federation troops in a convoy en route to the frontline in the script of an episode confirms that the Federation has a standing army (be it marines, standard grunts or Special Ops).
Althought, as a side thought me and some other friends reckon that any Federation army could be made up of reservists and volunteers from member worlds and that the Federation DOESN'T have a standing army per se but has contingency within the Starfleet/Federation Charter for any situation that might require one ie: in time of peace there is no army - just starfleet but in time of War the Federation council can require all Federation members to provide manpower for any armed ground force if required.
Again this is all just a thought.
Peace
I wholeheartedly agree with Jon's position. I don't like the idea of a Federation-sponsored marine force more than anyone else, but I also don't like the idea of a Federation-sponsored KGB. Too bad we're stuck with that Section 31 crap, and I'm sure Gene is still rolling over in his grave over it.Quote:
Althought, as a side thought me and some other friends reckon that any Federation army could be made up of reservists and volunteers from member worlds and that the Federation DOESN'T have a standing army per se but has contingency within the Starfleet/Federation Charter for any situation that might require one ie: in time of peace there is no army - just starfleet but in time of War the Federation council can require all Federation members to provide manpower for any armed ground force if required.
Starfleet "marines" are necessary when retaking a planet or busting up a fortified ground (or even orbital) installation. While I agree with Aldaron's view that space forces are by FAR the primary consideration in any 24th-century military engagement, there are still plenty of hidden strongholds and underground lairs that can exist for a clever defender on any planet, no matter how accurate or smart your lasers or torpedoes are, or how sensitive your sensors (Look at the success of the Bajoran Resistance, for example. Even with 24th century tech AND marines on the ground the Kardies fell for old Viet Cong/French Resistance tactics, though it took 50 years or whatever). And since Starfleet seems to (bit of an assumption here) take a dim view of all-out orbital bombardment and planetary razings, an occupying force is a necessity. Granted it doesn't have to be very large number, relatively speaking, but even Aldaron's number of 10,000 Jemhadar is unapproachable by Starfleet if you're only using the shipboard security contigents on a fleet of Federation vessels.
I have to add that, so far, this has been the most thought-provoking and interesting debate I've found on this forum. Keep truckin'.