Star Trek: Nemesis... Tell me why...?

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Originally Posted by REG

Well, you can't completely place the blame on the director Stuart Baird. Aside from the obvious -- Brannon & Braga -- there is the screenwriter John Logan, credited for the Russell Crowe's Gladiator film and happens to be familiar with Star Trek. He is simply not on the same wavelength as I am when it comes to the iconic Romulans. He was the guy that created the Remans.

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Good point, certainly, but what I was trying to say is that if the director isn't familiar with the Trek feel then you're off to a bad start. The director creates the "feel" of the movie more, I think, than anyone else off camera, so... well, its all history now.

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Originally Posted by Capt. K. Vaughn

I personally believe the Remans will be fighting for their lives after the events of Nemesis. I could see the Romulans almost committing genocide against the race afterward for a number of reasons.

Though I have some time before my own campaign becomes concurrent with the events of Nemesis to figure out the repercussions of it.

Regards,
CKV.

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Sounds like something the Romulans would do, yes. All things considered it'd probably be a very brief process as well, given the working conditions we see the Remans in during Nemesis. If you're planning on having PCs get involved in that in some way that might make for an interestingly narrow window of oppurtunity... unless they're part of the kill team, of course :p

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Originally Posted by REG

I agree with you. Instead of making bigger and badder enemy ship, why not choreagraph an intelligent ship-to-ship combat between equally powerful starships? Are they afraid someone will cry "rehash!" of Star Trek II? Anyone who cry out that should not be carrying any gray matter in his cranial cavity.

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Either that . . . or not just between relatively equal enemies . . . but enemies that use different theories behind Space-Based Combat . . . whether it be one, expensive, multi-role vessel (IE 1st Class Modern Naval Vessels) . . . multiple smaller vessels of far lesser capabilities (IE the squadrons of smaller hydrofoil missile corvettes common to smaller littoral navies) . . . or a carrier like vessel with multiple shuttlecraft/vessels. If done with good lead characters behind each group . . . either pitted against one another, or fighting as brothers in arms. In doing this, if done well . . . one can seriously look at the strengths and weaknesses of each strategim of Space Combat.

But that again that has less to do with the movie in question . . . then a hopeful new movie that may one day bring back the former glory of times past.

To bad those who take ink to paper and who have credibility within Hollywood don't look at these comments and use them to refine new and better scripts. But then again . . . that is moving off the subject as well.

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Originally Posted by Ineti

So, I netflixed Nemesis and watched it for the first time. Other than the special effects, which I thought were pretty good, and a couple funny one-liners, I thought the movie pretty much sucked.

Has there been any sort of explanation for why Worf was on the ship and why Wesley was at the wedding? Last I remember Worf was the Federation ambassador to the Klingon homeworld and Wesley was off with the Traveller.

I'm just wondering if I've missed something somewhere. :)

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Movie was a complete waste of time, but it did prove that William Shatner did not make the worse Star Trek film ever made that goes to B&B and Nemesis. Go those Raseberries!!!

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Originally Posted by Thanatos

Good point, certainly, but what I was trying to say is that if the director isn't familiar with the Trek feel then you're off to a bad start. The director creates the "feel" of the movie more, I think, than anyone else off camera, so... well, its all history now.

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Nicholas Meyer was unfamiliar with Trek before he helmed The Wrath of Khan.

On the other side of the fence, while FIRST CONTACT is a big hit, actor-turned-director Jonathan Frake's second Trek film, INSURRECTION, didn't fare well. Leonard Nimoy's first Trek directorial debut in The Search for Spock is less memorable than his second go-around, The Voyage Home.

And need I remind you of William Shatner's first try in the Director's Chair?

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Originally Posted by Capt. K. Vaughn

I personally believe the Remans will be fighting for their lives after the events of Nemesis. I could see the Romulans almost committing genocide against the race afterward for a number of reasons.

Though I have some time before my own campaign becomes concurrent with the events of Nemesis to figure out the repercussions of it.

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Depends on what the Federation Council and Starfleet HQ decide on the matter regarding the Remans now that they are known to them, and since the NEMESIS incident if the Federation-Romulan relations have changed.

AFAIC, the Non-Interference Policy is still enforced. What the Romulans and Remans do is considered an internal matter. If anything, the Council will try to volunteer Federation's assistance as mediator.

I believe there is a throw away line in Nemesis that states the Remans were used as ground troops for the Romulan forces during the Dominion War IIRC, therefore Starfleet has known of their existance for some time if we allow for that line.

Granted, I could be mistaken as I don't recall with certainty whether I heard that in the movie or read it somewhere.

Though it does make you wonder if the Remans fled Romulan space and asked for sanctuary and refuge status in Federation space, what types of tension that may cause.

Regards,
CKV.

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Originally Posted by REG

Nicholas Meyer was unfamiliar with Trek before he helmed The Wrath of Khan.

On the other side of the fence, while FIRST CONTACT is a big hit, actor-turned-director Jonathan Frake's second Trek film, INSURRECTION, didn't fare well. Leonard Nimoy's first Trek directorial debut in The Search for Spock is less memorable than his second go-around, The Voyage Home.

And need I remind you of William Shatner's first try in the Director's Chair?

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Aha. Well... good points all 'round. *bows head and shuts mouth*

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Originally Posted by REG

Depends on what the Federation Council and Starfleet HQ decide on the matter regarding the Remans now that they are known to them, and since the NEMESIS incident if the Federation-Romulan relations have changed.

AFAIC, the Non-Interference Policy is still enforced. What the Romulans and Remans do is considered an internal matter. If anything, the Council will try to volunteer Federation's assistance as mediator.

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*re-opens mouth* You're probably right about the Non-Interference part, at least. Given the Remans (or at least their former leader) were trying to destroy Earth (its population, anyway) I really doubt the Federation would be particularly friendly to the Remans and would probably just not want to get involved.

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Originally Posted by Capt. K. Vaughn

I believe there is a throw away line in Nemesis that states the Remans were used as ground troops for the Romulan forces during the Dominion War IIRC, therefore Starfleet has known of their existance for some time if we allow for that line.

Granted, I could be mistaken as I don't recall with certainty whether I heard that in the movie or read it somewhere.

Though it does make you wonder if the Remans fled Romulan space and asked for sanctuary and refuge status in Federation space, what types of tension that may cause.

Regards,
CKV.

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I vaguely remember that line, yeah. I believe it was Riker that delivered it, but I wouldn't reccomend quoting me on that one (its been a couple months since I saw the movie).

Given the point I made above its hard to say what the Federation would do. I guess it would depend on just how involved the Feds thought the rest of the Reman population was in the planned attack on Earth. Assuming that this was a large scale conspiracy involving a sizable percentage of the Reman population, which you'd think it was given the secretive construction of the Scimitar, then the Federation may simply turn them away. The Federation and Starfleet could end up of divided opinion on the matter, ranging from the more pacifistic/forgiving members wanting to let the Remans have their sanctuary to the more aggressive members who might even go so far as to say helping the Romulans suppress the Reman population would be good for diplomacy and remind the rest of the quadrant that attacking the Federation is a good way to get hurt (I doubt this plan would happen, mind, but there'd be a few suggesting it, I have little doubt). Those in between might want to mediate (as REG suggested) while others may want to simply not get involved (either as a matter of policy or in order to avoid agitating the Romulans).

There's also the factor of third party diplomacy to consider. The Klingons would likely have heard of this incident, who knows what they'd think of it all? Or the Gorn, who've long been a minor power might take this oppurtunity to try and stake their claim amongst the "big boys" by striking against the Romulans during a perceived weakness. Granted the impact of the non-involved would probably be relatively minor, but just about anything could happen.

That said... I've never really respected the Federation for its intellectual properties. Its probably the most gullible, naive, and forgiving political body in space. Hard to say what they'd do :p

Either way you look at it, you can definitely have some fun with the fallout. Especially if you add LUG's Taurhai into the mix.

Regards,
CKV.

To be fair to the Remans, they were simply trying to overthrow the Yolk of Romulan oppression, which they did for a time... It was Shinzon, who was on some sort of loopy bender, that decided he'd thrown Earth in to the mix :D

I tend not to think of the Federation policy as weak.. they are often divided, but they realise that what goes around comes around... If they interfere and help they could make things work.. but they could make things much worse by not interfering.. The Remans still have that technology, unless they use the Enterprise (TM) memory technology, which allows them to seamlessly remove all of the data from computers and people, so it can be cleanly forgot about :D So I can imaging the Federation stepping in heavily just from the defensive Point of view.. if they insinuate themselves into early Romulan reformist governments then they have a better chance of NOT being the first target of the Romulans new weapon of war, which they borrowed from tortured Reman scientists :D

They might have to wait until the dust settles though as various Romulan Admirals and Senators who missed that ill-fated meeting make a grab for greater power.

Though I can see the Tal Shiar truly struggling to maintain a grip on what power they currently have.

Regards,
CKV.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

To be fair to the Remans,

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I don't want to be fair to the Remans. I want them written out of the official Star Trek lore, declare the entire species as apocryphal as Spock's half-brother Sybok in the fifth Trek film.

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Originally Posted by REG

I don't want to be fair to the Remans. I want them written out of the official Star Trek lore, declare the entire species as apocryphal as Spock's half-brother Sybok in the fifth Trek film.

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I agree with you on some levels there but I think writing the Remans off completely is overkill. As a species they rather make an interesting story tool, being the nearest neighbours of the Romulans and a slave species struggling to survive and eventually rebelling. The way they were presented was... well, we've been discussing that and few of us seem happy with it. Their potential was woefully unrecognised.

Slave uprisings can make for interesting stories, if you ask me. Though giving the slaves the biggest honkin' ship in the quadrant is a bit ridiculous, for any number of reasons.

Regarding the Scimitar, now that I remember something I thought of just after seeing the movie, I was quite happy to see signs of technological advancement outside the Federation. It was nice to see the cloaking device finally advancing, rather than remaining more or less stagnant technology.

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Originally Posted by Ineti

So, I netflixed Nemesis and watched it for the first time. Other than the special effects, which I thought were pretty good, and a couple funny one-liners, I thought the movie pretty much sucked.

Has there been any sort of explanation for why Worf was on the ship and why Wesley was at the wedding? Last I remember Worf was the Federation ambassador to the Klingon homeworld and Wesley was off with the Traveller.

I'm just wondering if I've missed something somewhere. :)

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In the script of the movie, Worf says he wasn't cut out to be a diplomat and returned to Starfleet.

Wesley was just the tool back in the box for a visit.

Data's death as many have mentioned sucked the big one. We all know Brent had been asking for them to kill Data since First Contact. If they were gonna kill him, it should have been then, at least it would have been cool.

The moron who wrote Nemesis reminds me of some bozo who can't tell star trek from his ass. (which he wears as a hat)

The movie was horrible.

I love TNG, I love the cast, I have liked all the movies they've done, but this one truely blows goats.

The DVD has the great extra scenes they cut that they never should have. The scene with Commander Madden being introduced is funny.

Too bad they had to get some loser actor to play Picard's clone. The Romulans should have been the enemies, not the allies. But then again, leave it to that bonehead Berman to screw things up even more than he has already.

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Originally Posted by Thanatos

I agree with you on some levels there but I think writing the Remans off completely is overkill. As a species they rather make an interesting story tool, being the nearest neighbours of the Romulans and a slave species struggling to survive and eventually rebelling. The way they were presented was... well, we've been discussing that and few of us seem happy with it. Their potential was woefully unrecognised.

Slave uprisings can make for interesting stories, if you ask me. Though giving the slaves the biggest honkin' ship in the quadrant is a bit ridiculous, for any number of reasons.

Regarding the Scimitar, now that I remember something I thought of just after seeing the movie, I was quite happy to see signs of technological advancement outside the Federation. It was nice to see the cloaking device finally advancing, rather than remaining more or less stagnant technology.

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I can see the Romulans seriously putting a hurting on them in retribution.

I'm running into similar problems regarding large ships in one of my games at the moment myself and it is nowhere near as big as the Scimitar or being built by a slave race.

I haven't quite decided whether or not to treat the Scimitar as a unique vessel and once destroyed, the class itself is done or to allow for the possibility of one or two more lurking out there. But I have a few years until I decide what the reprecussions are for my universe.

It is nice to see advancement but I have also always presumed that advancements have been occurring over the years behind the scenes for most powers anyway. Well, maybe not the Pakleds. :D

Regards,
CKV.

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Originally Posted by Silverstreak

The DVD has the great extra scenes they cut that they never should have. The scene with Commander Madden being introduced is funny.

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Some of those scenes definitely should not have been cut. I wish the DVD gave the option to play them as part of the movie as it would definitely add to the whole effect.

Madden was and is a hoot.

Regards,
CKV.