News about Star Trek Worlds

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Originally posted by First of Two
My father, who taught for 30+ years, gave me one piece of advice when I was looking into the education field: No matter how dedicated, willing, and good a teacher you are, you cannot teach a rock.

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Once again, First, I find myself in complete agreement with you. As a man who's about halfway through his first year in teaching (high school) I can verify the wisdom in your father's words; I've had kids who were fairly thick, but who wanted to learn; sooner or later, we found the way through the intellectual barriers and were able to feed the desire that lay inside. Others, who obviously had far more sophisticated wiring upstairs, were from the "Yeah, whatever" club and were virtually unreachable.

While I haven't seen the post under discussion - the only reason I've visited the Decipher site at all over the last several months is to see if they've finally removed Worlds from the product list completely - there comes a time when a spade has to be called a spade. Decipher might not like nasty language on their boards, which is their right and their privilege...but the epithets that my group and I have used to describe them over the last two years or so have reached veteran Navy CPO status. Ask yourself, honestly: If this was any other profession, and these people had made equivalent level promises and shown the same abominable lack of interest or care in seeing them fulfilled, what would you do? Renegotiate? Pat their heads and try to find out what the trouble with Oogums was? Or exorciate them for having the temerity to create these kinds of expectations, bailing like rodents, and leaving us with a half-complete system and the necessary supplements sitting in the loading dock, ready to go, and gathering dust because they just can't be bothered to live up to their agreements? Door number three, Monty? Yeah. Me too.

I can't claim to be the most injured party in this situation, because my group and I were never huge fans of the Coda system to begin with; nonetheless, any Star Trek RPG is better than no Star Trek RPG - at least it gives us something we can sort of convert over to Icon. For those who did feel that this system fulfilled the game's needs, pass the lighter fluid and get those matches ready...the torchlight parade is scheduled to begin at midnight.

After a year of prevaricating, I wasn't actually expecting them to do as they said.

No biggie, I like CODA and the stuff they put out is enough to give me the tools to build my own ships, planets, races, etc. No reason to not use the stuff I bought.

I'm not surprised the system died; everytime I like a RPG that's not GURPS or d20, it dies. I just decide to use the stuff or not. The Stargate RPG wasn't far behind.

I think it's fairly clear that Decipher themselves had very little to do with the actual CODA system: that was from the tallent in their RPG department which either jumped ship or ran away. In either case the product they did make was good, it's just a shame the company decided to not invest in it or even try! Why they didn't release premade products is beyond me. *sigh*

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Originally Posted by black campbellq

I'm not surprised the system died; everytime I like a RPG that's not GURPS or d20, it dies. I just decide to use the stuff or not. The Stargate RPG wasn't far behind.

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I thought that I was the only one that this happened to. Good to see I have some company.

Nope, definitely not alone there Brian. :o

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Originally Posted by templartiger

I just left a scathing post on the Decipher board earlier this afternoon concerning their announcement asking the fan base to create scenarios for convention purposes.

For the most part anyone that reads it, will get the impression I am against Decipher and its volunteer staff.

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I read your post and agree with it. I thought it was a bit rough (on Tim) but got the point across:

It takes some gall to come to the customer and ask them to provide adventures and creative talent -- free of charge -- for a product line that has been abandoned (in every sense of the word) and after treating said customers...well, lets just say "not well." :)

And before someone says I have an axe to grind with Decipher, I don't; I'm all paid up. Have been for some time. :) Oh sure, they won't return my e-mails or phone calls but that's okay; they don't return anyone's e-mails or phone calls regarding the RPGs.

Regarding Tim and this convention support, I find it quite funny. Out of the 3 years that the RPG line was in full production, I ran con support for the Trek RPGs 2 of those years. Tim was never involved. He was never a contributor. In fact, aside from his begging Christian Moore to be involved in some capacity (LARP?) at Origins 2003 (?) he has had no involvement with the RPG line/studio/staff in any capacity that I know of. Give him credit for being persistent, I suppose.

As for the submissions, I sure wouldn't encourage anyone to participate for a number of reasons, the least of which you can get better exposure writing for any other number of RPG companies and at least get paid.

Running a Trek/LotR adventure at Origins/Gen Con this year ought to have hazard pay. I got pretty beat up at Gen Con 2003 and the line was only about 3 months behind schedule! :D

[Edit] Fixed embarassing typos. Mental note: never post past midnight w/ no sleep again. :)

Decipher's new tact or asking fans to do thier job for them (and for free), is a bad one on serveral levels. On one hand it is like asking sports fans to play on the team (for free), since the owners fired the offical team members.

Secondly, IF the fans actually DO band together and beging creating product for the game-why do WE need DECIPHER? What are they going to be doing?

Which all part of my master plan for Beyond the Final Frontier hehe

All funny-business aside, a part of the reason for my creating the webzines for the games was to give people a chance to have their name in a byline even though we couldn't pay them for it. No one would want good ideas for their favorite game to go to waste.

GOB

:mad: <--- Wish there was a pissed version.

Anyway, it is disgusting they treat us like garbage. They would rather have LOTR books than Star Trek...

Now asking us the fans to write for them so they do not pay professionals?! They have the gall to screw us and then ask for help?!

It is bad enough we get that from Viacom/Paramount, but now Decipher is following suit?!

We bought the books, we are keeping it up so they think sites like this one we would go and support a game they say they are not publishing?!

Well I am just converting all my LUG stuff to CODA. They have lost another customer. Even if Decipher were to publish the game again, I am not buying it. I refuse.

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Originally Posted by Don Mappin

It takes some gaul to come to the customer and ask them to provide adventures and creative talent -- free of charge -- for a product line that has been abandoned (in every sense of the word) and after treating said customers...well, lets just say "not well."

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Originally Posted by tonyg

Decipher's new tact or asking fans to do thier job for them (and for free), is a bad one on serveral levels. On one hand it is like asking sports fans to play on the team (for free), since the owners fired the offical team members.

Secondly, IF the fans actually DO band together and beging creating product for the game-why do WE need DECIPHER? What are they going to be doing?

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Originally Posted by T'lara

Now asking us the fans to write for them so they do not pay professionals?! They have the gall to screw us and then ask for help?!

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A clarification is in order, here. Tim wasn't asking for adventures on behalf of Decipher. He was asking on behalf of a "living" style fan-run campaign for Trek similar to his "Tales of Middle-Earth" campaign. Something that would allow easier gaming, but is not put in place by Decipher.

I have no problem with taking the company to task for mistakes they have made, but please make sure the facts are straight. This isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by Doug Burke

A clarification is in order, here. Tim wasn't asking for adventures on behalf of Decipher.

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Um, yes he was. See quote below.

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He was asking on behalf of a "living" style fan-run campaign for Trek similar to his "Tales of Middle-Earth" campaign. Something that would allow easier gaming, but is not put in place by Decipher.

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Perhaps you should tell Tim that.

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As the new RPG Assistant for Decipher, I would like to solicit ideas for a world wide Trek RPG Campaign.

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His statement "as the new..." states that he is soliciting on behalf of Decipher for this project, lending credibility to his request.

Regarding paying for submissions or their seeing print:

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Deipher's paying for modules is something I will have to work out. The LotR RPG Campaing (Tales of Middle-Earth) has been volunteers so far. If adventures are to be obtained from Decipher (or purchased as a celophane wrapped product off of a hobby store shelf), there must be a policy.

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Again, the implication is that ownership belongs to Decipher (is a contract involved) and that said writing may see see print as "a celophane wrapped product." As soon as he said that he opened the door to the possibility that this material may see its way beyond simple Con demos. Hence, the fans doing Decipher's creative work for them.

Come on, Doug. You're not even trying on this one. ;)

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Originally Posted by Don Mappin

Um, yes he was. See quote below.Perhaps you should tell Tim that.His statement "as the new..." states that he is soliciting on behalf of Decipher for this project.

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I admit, I may have missed that bit.

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Regarding paying for submissions or their seeing print:Again, the implication is that ownership belongs to Decipher (is a contract involved) and that said writing may see see print as "a celophane wrapped product."

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Wouldn't the fact that payment for the adventures is being worked out disprove the whole "free of charge" aspect of the rants that have been coming out, though?

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Come on, Doug. You're not even trying on this one. ;)

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Well, I wasn't looking to argue about it, I was just clarifying the situation as I understood it (see my first response here regarding the accuracy of my understanding). One remark I made does stand, though. We should all make sure of the facts before ranting. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Doug Burke

Wouldn't the fact that payment for the adventures is being worked out disprove the whole "free of charge" aspect of the rants that have been coming out, though?

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Not really. If it's a standard Work For Hire agreement and a blind submissions boilerplate text, it could very well be another situation of Decipher retains all rights and what they do with it is up to them. You and I, by matter of example, were never paid for the con adventures we wrote. In fact, legally, we could sue Decipher for distributing them on their web site. (I signed no contract giving them the rights to use my adventures.) Some people (Ineti) asked about payment and Tim couldn't provide an answer. That means a) they don't intend to pay (highly likely) or b) haven't thought about paying (again, also likely).

In either case it's fairly clear Decipher doesn't intend to pay.

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Well, I wasn't looking to argue about it, I was just clarifying the situation as I understood it (see my first response here regarding the accuracy of my understanding).

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That's fine, just having a little fun at your expense, I'm afraid. :p

NOTE: Just fixed my own typo in the quote... DNB

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Originally Posted by Doug Burke

We should all make sure of the facts before ranting. :cool:

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Hard to do when dealing with DECIPHER. They don't reveal many facts (present line rep excepted). If I got it right, the Star Trek RPG's line offical status with DECIPHER is that it doesn't have any status, offically. It's not canceled, but there is nothing to indicate that anything will be printed for it in the future.



Even if they wanted to revive the line, they don't have anyone left in the RPG division to do so. Fan sumissions save them the bother of putting a professional RPG writer on the payroll.

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Originally Posted by tonyg

Hard to do when dealing with DECIPHER. They don't reveal many facts (present line rep excepted). If I got it right, the Star Trek RPG's line offical status with DECIPHER is that it doesn't have any status, offically. It's not canceled, but there is nothing to indicate that anything will be printed for it in the future.

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Not quite. Decipoher is working to reestablish the approvals relationship with Viacom/Paramount and once that is resolved, will try to get the books that were previously in the pipeline published. Should those books do well, enough, new material may be produced.

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Even if they wanted to revive the line, they don't have anyone left in the RPG division to do so. Fan sumissions save them the bother of putting a professional RPG writer on the payroll.

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Nice assumption there. And a perfect example of what I'm talking about.