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Understood but just ignored.Quote:
Originally posted by Angry_Cartman:
As for me, I have a theory... I don't think you guys understood where I was going with my previous post. I'll be more conspicuous: WHO WILL BENEFIT FROM THE HATE (...justified or not) THAT THE US PUBLIC NOW FEELS TOWARDS PALESTINIANS/ARABS/MUSLIMS/whatever?? I have a very particular country in mind. As I say, they must be estatic right now, that's exactly the kind of break they need...
been reading the Illuminatus Trilogy.. and it's so hard.. not to think in conspiracy-theories right now... but still cartman, i think that's a rather wild theory
Hey now, curb the anti-Arab and anti-semitic crap... even suggesting that Israel would perpetrate such an action is simply inconceivable. Certainly few like the fact that the Israelis persecute the Palestinians, but to suggest that they'd set up the United States..? Madness.
I must agree, however, regarding Usama bin Laden's denial of involvement. That pig-f*cker has always claimed responsibility for the actions of his group in the past, so his denial is either the truth, a ruse, or a cowardly attempt to avoid getting spanked by the U.S. military; take your pick.
Who would do this?
Oh, and by the way, I'm not in shock. I've been expecting this sort of thing for years. But then it's the kind of thing that everyone thinks will never happen in their country...
mactavish out.
If you say your gonna do it and then it happens... what are the odds you didn't do it.
Well my stance on conspiracy theories is that life is hardly so interesting. It may be true, but you'll never know it as a public so why bother.
Anyhow, would he be more prone to deny it if, as it has been made known, a couple of his key hits never made their target?
Another note as to why the flights were heading for LA. Not only would they be carrying enough fuel for an cross-country flight, but they also had to carry extra fuel to fight headwinds.
On top of that Canadian border is now sealed.
As is the mexican.
Two carrier groups moving to NY and one recalled from Victoria but to go where?
Israeli persecution of Arabs? Why does everyone word it like that? It is Israeli retaliation. Check all the back terroist attacks, the Palistinians struck first. It is this that really makes me mad, a Palistinian blows up a disco in Israel and it gets 5 minutes news coverage for 1 day. The Israelis justly retaliate, and they're clobbered on the news for weeks.
Anyway beside the point. The reason why no-one is claiming responsiblity in this (INMHO) is the fact they know the US will blow them to the moon. It is enough for everyone to "know" that they did it, they don't have to say they did it.
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In the Praetors Name!
I said it was a theory; for all I know it could be Liechtenstein behind it....
But tell me if I'm wrong when I say that this will give a tremendous boost to Israel.
And if you think that this kind of horror is beneath even them, then you've never heard of the Mossad ("the institute"), their intelligence service. Simply put, those guys are nuts (and the best, which make them even more dangerous). To be more precise (and fair), when I mean this plays into their hands, "they" are the hard-line Israeli zealots who represent, I am sure, a tiny portion of the Israeli population (who would be shocked to learn what atrocities some people in their own govt commit).
In a related matter, I also always believed that the assassination of moderate leader Ythzak Rabin was in fact planned by them... also played in their hands too.
Look folks, I'm just saying it's a theory and I have NO FACT to back this up whatsoever... it's just that on the surface it's holding quite well logically. But then again, I'll be the first to concede that because an explanation fits the fact it does not mean it has any ring of truth in it.
Finally, I would like to see where are the anti-arab or anti-semitic comments on those boards?!... If I would accuse the US of having plotted a war for oil (sounds familiar?) would I be accused of being anti-american? That would be funny, as for a Canadian you would be hard-pressed to find one that is more pro-US than me... and for that matter there are many Israeli policies I agree with, these people ARE besieged.
Remember, everyone in the arena of INTL politics is a bastard; I remember this line from "Clear and Present Danger" (ya know with Harrison Ford, the TC novel?), where this shrewed presidential advisor said "the world is not black and white, it's grey"...
[This message has been edited by Angry_Cartman (edited 09-11-2001).]
Sorry guys. It probably was our unbelievably lax system of entry into our country that allowed this scum entry into yours. It has been a known fact, to any who are observant enough, that every terrorist organization in the world has representatives in Canada, simply because it is so easy to get in. Then it is a direct line across the border.Quote:
Originally posted by Protius:
Another note as to why the flights were heading for LA. Not only would they be carrying enough fuel for an cross-country flight, but they also had to carry extra fuel to fight headwinds.
On top of that Canadian border is now sealed.
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In the Praetors Name!
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From another newsgroup:Quote:
Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:
This is a real song... Kind of spooky...
"Seen The Lighs Go Out On Broadway"
By Billy Joel. 1986 IRC...
Quote:
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will
begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
Not to be all... weird and junk, but... the guy does have a pretty good track record of predicting the future.
You know, I don't know what bothers me more, the assumption that Arab extremists carried out this act, or the willingness of many to lay the blame solely on the Middle East.
Maybe it was Lichtenstein... doubtful, but you never know.
As for Israeli policies toward the actions of Palestinian terrorists, there is such a thing as moderation. Leveling the homes of innocent civilians because they are in the area of where rifle attacks originate is like killing cockroaches with a tank.
Nevertheless, I personally have little doubt that there is some sort of connection between this horrific attack and the state of the Middle East. I know that that's a dangerous assumption, but present me with a viable alternative.
As a side note, I know that gas prices in Michigan are expected to rise to between $3-5/gallon. I assume that similar price increases will occur elsewhere as well, so I'd suggest filling up your automobile ASAP.
What kind of time table do you expect the US to have in finding the perpetrators?
What kind of response do you expect?
Phantom,
The Israelis are treating the Palestinians like second class citizens; how would you feel if the army came up, took possession of your house and land so that some settlers could move in? Of course the Palestinians are pissed (and rightly so);
On the other hand, the Israelis mainly (read: mainly) strike at Palestinian govt and para-mil targets, while the Palestinians clearly engage in terrorist acts again civilians. Their cause would look far more legitimate if they'd keep striking at military targets only. I guess their reasonning is that striking at civilian targets has more impact, and is also far more easier given how the Israeli military keeps its ass tight. The thing is, they are hurting themsleves more than anything else.
I somewhat agree with you though about the media coverage, the Israelis strike in retaliation (as they should... as if they were supposed to take a bloody lip and shut up...)
Just remember what happened to the Husnock who killed Rishon Uxbridge.
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This whole thing is just a damned nightmare. The sheer scale of it is quite incredible. I would not have thought any terrorist group in the world capable of this level of coordination. One of the reasons chemical and biological weapons were so frightening was that massive planning wasn't really needed; you just sread the anthrax on the wind.
The whole effect is that we are learning what previous generations knew about how fragile life is, and about how terrifying it is to live in wartime. In a way, Americans are learning what Europeans have long known; what it is to be vulnerable. It is a sad lesson to have to learn.
I just hope that this doesn't mean the end of freedom in this country. We could end up combating terrorism with weapons worse than our enemies. Will there be internal passports? Checkpoints everywhere? Cancelled elections? A suddenly-declared official Christian state?
I pray to every God I know that we catch the people responsible, that as few people die as possible, and that we don't panic..........
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Slan agat!
The Latest News:
The Federal Government has issued a nation wide state of emergency.
All federal staff and military personnel are on the highest state of alert. All air traffic within the United States has been grounded for twenty-four hours.
It is rumored that a civilian aircraft heading to Washington D.C has been shot down by U.S military forces.
It is also rumored that the President has left his sactuary and is heading back to Washington D.C on Airforce One with full military escort.
As of the time of this post--the World Trade Center Towers are both no more. It also seems that a large part of the Pentagon Bldg. is also gone.
Loss of life---feared to be enormus.
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Hello all, here is an update on air traffic.
ALL non-military air trafic over the US, is now on the ground.
4 Planes were hijacked.
8:45 am, American Airlines flight 11, a Boeing 767, headed from Boston to LA, with 92 people on-board hits the North tower of the World Trade Center.
9:03 am, United Airlines flight 175, an Airbus, headed from Boston to LA, with 65 people on-board hits the South tower, covered in multiple angles by TV cameras covering the first plane strike.
9:45 am, American Airlines flight 77, headed from Washington D.C.-Dulles to LA, with 64 people on-board crashes into the Pentegon.
10:00 am, the South Tower collapses.
10:29 am, the North Tower collapses.
Sometime after the Crash into the Pentegon United Airlines flight 93, a Boeing 757, headed from Newark to San Francisco, with 45 people on-board crashes into a rural area outside of Pittsburg, PA.
This totals 266 people dead on the aircraft alone.
I am just west of Seattle, we have closed our tall buildings. We have closed our malls. We are mobilizing our blood supplies to send them east. We are all praying to whatever power we hold dear that we will all survive this madness.
Doug Odell
Latest News:
PLO splinter group has claimed responsibility.
As the news of the events reached the Middle East. . .street parties broke out in almost all Middle East nations. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif
If someone can imagine an Israeli involvement, what is the possibility of Mossad actually doing it?
Talking of comparison to Star Trek "history": How were the Romulans "convinced" to join the Allliance against the Dominion?
As many newscasters have mentioned, please note todays date. 9-11-01.
911
the Emergancy phone number in most of the US, I think that even the date was chosen for its impact.
Saying that the Israilies are responsible for this act of terrorism is simply moronic. Those that actually think this to be the case or would choose to spread such a stupid rumor really need to spend more time outdoors with the rest of the world.
I fear this may be what lay ahead for us as the wars of XXIst century. This is not a war between a country and another country, this is war between a country and an organisation.Quote:
Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:
I firmly belive that this is only the opening shot. We stomped on Iran, Iraq, Lybia, and dozens of others.
Now THEY are striking back. We thought them stupid third world powers that could be punished like childredn....
This is WAR.
And such wars would be terrible, since it is much more difficult to find the culprit and retaliate.
XXth century featured wars between countries, or fears of wars between super powers, now we'll have to cope with "everyday" war, with a war against a bunch of well-armed and well-trained individuals, with a war where the ennemy has no name, no flags, no spokeperson, no army... just lots of heavy casualties on your side to claim.
I don't know if this is the end of the world as we know it, or the beginning of WWIII, but one thing is sure : things will never be the same from now on. This is the first attack of such a war, but I fear it's far from being the last.
I apologize if this post is a bit confused, but I'm still a bit under shock.
You have my sympathy and i hope everything will turn out well.
I was shocked as well though this seems so far away from here. I also believe that action should be taken against the responsible terrorists, but don`t let yourself be overwhelmed by anger,fear or desperation. Nuking someone really solves nothing. If action should be taken it will be on a small scale like a commando op. Let out your feelings but think about what you write here! We always wrote in a civilized manner. Please don`t change this now.
Thank you!
Surak, Moderator of General Area
ALL Husnock...everywhere.
"I'll be scared LATER. Right now, I'm too MAD." -- Bugs Bunny
Well, at least someone else here shares my opinion that Israeli involvement COULD (notice the use of the condidtional here) be plausible.
And why, I'm asking again, is it such a ludicrous idea? If you think that a few thousand US lives is worth anything to those scheming bastards at the Mossad then think again. They were feeling the heat rise like never before. Remember, the cold war is over, no more bad commies that supported Syria and Egypt, forcing the US in turn to support Israel; Now many Westerners are increasingly questionning US' support of Israel. Succinctly put, their support base is being eroded.
Personnally I don't understand why we support those spoiled crybabies. Guilt over the Holocaust? Screw that. We have nothing to do with that. Basically, why should innocent North Americans pay for Israel's pig-headedness? It's like you taking the s*** every time you try to bail out your no-good friend who is a bum in spite of compassion. They don't want to compromise? Fine, I'd leave them to their own devices.
Well in any case, as I'm telling the folks around me... I'd really hate being an Arab-American right now...
On another note, I'm afraid too that this is the beginning of something very ugly... I've been browsing around and there's lots of Americans screaming for revenge... even those we normally consider to be "liberal sissies"; I really think whoever did this just kicked the wasps'nest, and did not expect such outrage. Usually I would think that the US public at large would be angry for a while than slowly forget and return to their usual complaiscancy (sp?) but I have a feeling that this time it won't be the case.
Yes, these will be the wars of the future. Democratic nations will have 2 choices if they want to survive: Either dump tons of money and ressources into poorer countries to alleviate any resentment towards Western nations, as well as giving in to most if not all of those nations' demands, or fight a total war, and turn those countries into Western colonies again. And if they prove to be too hard to pacify... well then wipe them out.
I favor the second option.
[This message has been edited by Angry_Cartman (edited 09-11-2001).]
When I logged on this morning. I knew there would be a thread on this. But 4 pages already!!!
Is it just idle speculation that the 4th plane that when down in Pennsilvania (I'm a Aussie, so I can't spell US names http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif )
Was in fact flying toward Maryland on its flight path and perhaps aiming for Camp David? I heard this a couple of times on the news.
Also just how many buildings are in the World Trade complex? At least 7 anyway.
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SIR SIG
More then meets the eye,
His a MapMaker in disguise.
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I don't know who's responsible.
Very coordinated attack, striking from multiple places, at multiple targets.
If we're playing the conspiracy theory game, it could be darn near everyone, including elements inside our own government trying to force a shift in public opinion toward more hawkish behavior.
I don't know if trying to guess who is really worth it.
Alex
Re: Crashed Jetliner in PA.
The "expert" I saw on the news was drawing a flight plan that could have ended up at Camp David, or if extended could have been aimed somewhere in Washington DC.
Really, we don't know. It could have been aimed for the White House.
The World Trade Center has the two towers, and several outlying buildings. Tower 7 is on fire, and in danger of collapsing.
At my place of work, I've never heard such anger. Psalm 94 (I think that's the one) was placed on several doors.
I don't think we're going back to that old complacency. Until we crush something.
Alex
Posable targets for the Pittsburg plane have been guessed at, but that is all they are right now, guesses. Here is a list of posable targets.
Camp David, The White House, The Capitol Dome, The Supreme Court.
This is what I have heard so far.
[This message has been edited by Sevekk (edited 09-11-2001).]
Right now, I must agree with my counterparts here in the States, we need to vent and possible hurt somebody. Unfortunately I fear now for the Moslamic and Palistinien population in this country. The sentiments running around right now are not good, or frielndly. Please if you know any one of this ethnicticty tell them to hide, take shelter and lay low.
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Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
"First Away Team Mission... Beaming down to a Hostile Planet... Captain Kirk is leading the Away Team... I am wearing a red shirt... No Fear!!! Unknown Crew Member
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Is it for sure that it is the US?
One of our correspondence states, that it could be a local conflict with the northern alliance.
Do we have proof?
Tower 7 is down. At least they told me so on canadians news some minutes ago.
I'm also following rumors that people here in Quebec (near university Laval) have started a small riot. People were apparantly protesting in front of a Mosque or Islamic Church or whatever they call them.
I don't know what they are trying to accomplish, but i'm suprised this kind of thing ain't happening in the US.
Oh and i extend my sincere grief to all americans. As one who had to watch his city tore apart in a minor way by rioters, i can just begin to imagine in a small way what it must be like.
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Jesus saves.. and takes half damage.
Actually, having read Slashdot, there are a LOT of things that happened on this date historically -- the most likely was the signing of some paperwork at Camp David a few years back.Quote:
Originally posted by Sevekk:
As many newscasters have mentioned, please note todays date. 9-11-01.
911
the Emergancy phone number in most of the US, I think that even the date was chosen for its impact.
Or even:
1922 British mandate of Palestine begins
Scopesys.com has more, but most of it is irrelevant.
Gamethyme
NBC here showed live footage of craft taking off they had no idea why, until 5 seconds later they get confirmation that they were authorized by the US to ship relief aid. Talk about heart-skipping. For a few seconds there I thought the worst.
A local Islamic place in Dallas actually had some threatening phone-calls.