Branch colors

I think it would have to depend on what department they were part of previous in their career, ie Starfleet Sergeon General who holds the rank of Admiral would in my view still wear the Medical blue uniform. Likewise, although this was never shown in the series, Chiefs of Starfleet Operations and Security would probably wear mustard. If they were promoted to the rank and postion of Ship Captain then I would say they would change to command red. Except for those who command hospital ships, most of those crews are medical personel therefore the main uniform would be blue.

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In the Praetors Name!

I'll disagree, do you remember "All good things" ? If so, then remember what CAPT Beverly Picard was wearing? Red. That's canon, what can I say.

As far as the Surgeon General wearing Blue, with a rank of Rear Admiral (two pip), I can see that, but anything else, nah. Command is just that, command, the coordinating branch of Starfleet. Granted you can go into command from any branch, but once you start commanding outside your own branch, you wear red, or so it seems. For CMO wears Blue, CTactO wears Yellow. But those who command multigroups, those people wear red.

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"Your job is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his."
-Patton

"Like my father said, never start a fight, but always be sure to finish it."

-CAPT Sheridon, B5

"Know you enemy and know yourself and you will be victorious."

-CMDR Riker quoting The Art of War

Precisely JALU3,

Department heads will still wear their branch color, but once you become the XO or CO, then you automatically (and mandatorily) xfer to red-boy status.

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-- "Since the whiskey belongs to me, and it's on me, lets drink to me!"

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sho-sa Kurita:
Precisely JALU3,

Department heads will still wear their branch color, but once you become the XO or CO, then you automatically (and mandatorily) xfer to red-boy status.

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So basically, once you get command of a multi department group you're deemed the Red Target of the Galaxy? Man, makes me want to advise my officers to not go command . . . j/k.

Actually we've seen a Starfleet Admiral weraing gold. The Head of Starfleet Security as seen in the two part episode of DS9 were Worf and Garak are in a Dominion Prison camp, and the Dominion come through the wormhole.

So there is a precedent.

As far as Captain Beverly in All Good Things. Well she was commanding a ship. her duties were command-oriented, not medical. Not all admirals will have command duties per se.

Y'know I think I already mentioned this on the first page of this thread http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Captain Daniel Hunter
CO NCC-73602, U.S.S. Intrepid
Star Trek: Intrepid


[This message has been edited by USS Intrepid (edited 07-07-2001).]

Sorry about that point...I thought she wore blue in those scenes. You are right on re-thinking it, it was a red uniform.



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In the Praetors Name!

No problem Phantom, we all make mistakes. But as far as what you were saying about that one admiral that was head of Starfleet Security, you see that admiral works within his branch, and doesn't have people from underbranches directly underneath his/her command, therefore they can wear their original branch color.

However, as I said before if it was a "unified command" where there are several branches under that one branch then one must wear red, that way if they shoot you they don't see you bleed http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif . . . kinda like how the Captains aboard sailing ships of old would wear red shirt underneath their uniform so if they get shot the crew doesn't see him bleed.

But I kinda liked the idea of the branch pip, but nothing to fancy, and not a million and one branches like there is in the USN, Enlisted. But I go by canon in my game, so I stick to the canon. Well . . . except that RRF, but that is in book (LUG), so we consider it Canon in my game. But that's a completely different subject. SO no more Marine, RRT contreversy OK. Coo.

OK, thanks for the ship name, that'll be invaluable if they survive this next mission. Mhahahaha.

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"Your job is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his."
-Patton

"Like my father said, never start a fight, but always be sure to finish it."

-CAPT Sheridon, B5

"Know you enemy and know yourself and you will be victorious."

-CMDR Riker quoting The Art of War

Well in my game I use the multiple colour idea, ala the Movie Generation. Now this is not for some, but for me it is http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

If you want to take a look go here;

http://www.geocities.com/aslan_colla...haracters.html

To see the uniforms of these departments follow the link from the above page, or go here;

http://www.geocities.com/aslan_collas/st_uniforms.html

I also think Admirals and Commodores not in charge of toerh departments (hence not starship, starbase commanders or facility commanders) can wear their department colours http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Also ala Scotty being "Captain" of Engineering on the Excellsiors, Captain's can wear their department colours if they are not in command as well. If you are in command, you wear command colours.

Again this is my game and it may not work for you http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

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Captain Zymmer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit Star Trek:Strange New Worlds at;
http://www.geocities.com/aslan_collas
=-=-=-=-=-=

Hey Capt. Z, what can't I say but, wow!!!
I've never seen anyone 'breakdown' Starfleet so...well. It's a bit much for me though, think I'll cut off my colors at about five-seven.

Say, where did you get those uniforms pips?
Do you mount the pips to the swatch yourself?
(I ask because I'm thinking if doing an updated crew manifest; something along what you have, and just wondered...)

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...and that's about the time it hit the fan...

Oh this is just great. The commander of the Exeter is married to a Romulan, and this Romulan is a member of Starfleet.

(whispers something off screen...sound of spluttering)

"Security this is Centurion Tre'val, get me the TAL SHIAR Special Operations!!!!" Face turning red again.

You know, you would think that difficult for a Romulan...what with the green blood and all. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

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In the Praetors Name!

Quote:

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Originally posted by Modem:
Hey Capt. Z, what can't I say but, wow!!!
I've never seen anyone 'breakdown' Starfleet so...well. It's a bit much for me though, think I'll cut off my colors at about five-seven.

Say, where did you get those uniforms pips?
Do you mount the pips to the swatch yourself?
(I ask because I'm thinking if doing an updated crew manifest; something along what you have, and just wondered...)

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On the page Characters (from the main menu) there is a link to Steve Mariotts page at the bottom, head that way for pips, but e-mail and ask him first http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Glad you liked my work http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif



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Captain Zymmer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit Star Trek:Strange New Worlds at;
http://www.geocities.com/aslan_collas
=-=-=-=-=-=

Quote:

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Originally posted by Phantom:
Oh this is just great. The commander of the Exeter is married to a Romulan, and this Romulan is a member of Starfleet.

(whispers something off screen...sound of spluttering)

"Security this is Centurion Tre'val, get me the TAL SHIAR Special Operations!!!!" Face turning red again.

You know, you would think that difficult for a Romulan...what with the green blood and all. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Actually she is a foundling he rescued from a pirate ship when she was 10 and adopted. His parents (both Starfleet Academy instructors) raised her on Earth. I'm sure my original storyteller planned on some sort of Romulan Tal Shiarness.

Zymmer is not marrried, but engaged to his Counsellor who is currently attending Command School http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif



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Captain Zymmer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit Star Trek:Strange New Worlds at;
http://www.geocities.com/aslan_collas
=-=-=-=-=-=

Glad this was revived again. =)

My series (Star Trek: Sentinel, which is almost ready to run too) is set pst-Dominion War. Now, we don't really know a hell of a lot about post-Dominion War Starfleet... we see a few possible future glimpses, and a handful of people at SFC, but that's it. So that gives us free reign to design. Especially since SF seems to change uniforms every so often, and a wartime victory would be a great excuse to do so.

I use more than three colors, because in a firefight, it's good to know exactly what everyone does. Hypothetical situation... there's a damaged EPS conduit spilling plasma all over deck 7, and you need an engineer. At the same time, your ship is being boarded, so security is all over the place. You see, up ahead, a gold uniformed officer turn the corner, facing away. Do you let him repel the invasion or get him to fix the EPS conduit?

So here's what I have now.

Command/Bridge (including helm): Red, as always.
Security/Tactical: Amber (Amber has always meant caution)
Medical: Blue (as current)
Science: Teal (bluish, but different enough)
Engineering/Operations: Gold (as current, similar to amber but different enough)
Intelligence (Command): Usually whatever uniform fits their other areas of expertise (a SI officer with extensive medical training wears blue, to hide the SI designation), but when in "secure operations", grey (think current uniforms with the colored undershirt)
Intelligence (Field Ops): Usually they wear civilian clothing (do YOU want the romulans knowing that guy who just invaded their complex works for you?), or a branch color similar to the SI command officer above (when in a non-secure SF setting), but when in "secure operations", black (in other words, black on black)
Military (SF does have ground troops, we've even seen them in use): Olive green (sorta fits, don't it?), with sleeve/leg striping denoting their branch specialty (i.e, MPs wear green with amber striping, whereas field medics wear green with blue striping)
Flag Officers: Whatever branch color they'd normally use (although usually that branch is Command), with the addition of striping down the sleeves and legs for extra identification (last thing you want to do is accidentally bark orders to an admiral just because he's in amber!) Military high command officers (generals and the like) would have a green stripe with a branch stripe splitting it)
Cadets: White
Academy instructors (so cadets know who to turn to): Standard branch unirom, with a white border.


In addition, I also have updated the comm-badge design. The new comm-badge is the standard Starfleet asymmetrical indented triangle (the "fleet rocket"), with a single broad bar beneath (think current comm-badges, with the open are filled in). I've toyed with the idea of leaving enlisted personnel's comm-badges as they are, for distinction.

Further, I've redefined the actual uniforms, but I haven't decided on the final appearance.
My first design places the branch color starting at the shoulders, and working down traingularly to a point in the center of the chest and back. Easily seen, but leaving the uniform primarily black.
My second design starts at the shoulders also, much like the "DS9" uniform (now the Voyager uniform), but in the front forms a T down from the collar to the belt.
My third design uses a band of color, starting from about comm-badge height and going up from there, on the chest and sleeves.
My fourth design (the most radical yet) uses the branch color over the entire chest (like a vest), except for a trangular black wedge as the branch color wedge in the first example.
You'll notice all of them use prominant branch colors. I've never liked the grey uniforms... they make one guess at branch at a distance, which isn't good in an emergency.

I've also toyed with the idea of enlisted personnel having slightly different uniforms, such as a black stripe "breaking" the branch color (in much the same way "future" SF uniforms have a similar stripe) Also, with the idea of senior officers having a slightly different uniform, such as the flag officers have (in which case, admirals would have two such stripes, to further differentiate, spaced apart and widened so there is no doubt as to their flag status).

I know that's a hell of a lot to digest, and since there's so much no one can agree with everything, but I'd be intensely interested in comments, criticism (constructive, that is), and suggestions.



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"You got your Star Trek Trek in my roleplaying game!"
"You got your roleplaying game in my Star Trek!"
LUGTrek, two great tastes that taste great together

Update!

I decided upon uniform style 2 (the "T" shaped branch color area). Also, I decided that I will be using the black "breaker" stripe in the branch color area to designate enlisted personnel, as well as SF military (marines, etc) being green with a branch border stripe, much like the academy instructors. Also, cadets will have a white uniform with a branch-border, so that an engineering class would be filled with people wearing white with a gold border, except the instructor who would be wearing gold with a white border. =)

Also, department heads will wear their normal uniform plus two shoulder stripes in command red, while flag officers would be the only ones with sleeve and leg stripes.

I think I overexplained that.



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"You got your Star Trek Trek in my roleplaying game!"
"You got your roleplaying game in my Star Trek!"
LUGTrek, two great tastes that taste great together

This topic seems to have run its course but I'll post my 2-cents worth anyway http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif .

This won't help any because we play a post-ST:TMP pre-ST:Generations game. . .but it set an example for the future of Trek.

First off this is our branch colors: command is white; science is blue; medical is olive; services (eng./sec./ect.) is gold; operations (communication/ect.) is gray and cadets have orange.

Toward the end of ST:TVH (in the Council Chamber) we clearly see a Vice-Admiral who has the command white shoulder strap. On the shoulder strap he also has a gold strip about the width of the shoulder strap at a fourty-five degree angle above the rank insignia. So we have a Vice-Admiral in command who was in the services division. What we do in our game is if the officer is in a positon of command over several divisions he wears only command white. If he is a command officer (say the head of SF Engineering) he has the command white, but ads the department color strip.

This doesn't help you i'm sure, but it shows justification for having a "command" officer in his department color. And why Beverly (as commander of the entire ship) would wear command red and not blue (as the head of Medical would).

Well despite my enjoyment of having multiple department colours, I recently moved into the photomanip idea for characters and apparently it is much easier for these artists to make images using the three base colours, since there is a derth of pics available tobe used.

So the only change I have made is the division of Security and Tactical

Security remains gold while Tactical joins the Command familty of red tunics http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

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Captain Zymmer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit Star Trek:Lexington at;
http://www.usslexington.net
=-=-=-=-=-=

Ressurecting the past for no good reason!

Thought it might interest folks that in the Starfleet Corps of Engineers books, there is this quote:

"Gold trim on a Starfleet uniform means either operations or security. Which means the people here are either technicians, or experts in doing things like roaming around unfamiliar caverns."

Quote:

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Originally posted by Captain Zymmer
So the only change I have made is the division of Security and Tactical

Security remains gold while Tactical joins the Command familty of red tunics http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

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But that begs the question: What should Yar, and later Worf, wear, being the Head of Security and the Tactical Officer?

Quote:

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Originally posted by Robbert Raets


But that begs the question: What should Yar, and later Worf, wear, being the Head of Security and the Tactical Officer?

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Stripes? :D

Quote:

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Originally posted by LizardQueen
Stripes? :D

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LOL! :)

Quote:

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Chiefs of Starfleet

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Actually, the Chief of Starfleet Operations doesn't mean in charge of all Operations Branch Personnel. The title is extrapolated from the US Navy's highest ranking officer: Chief of Naval Operations. The CNO is in charge of providing the Navy's strategic direction and is the Navy's representative on the joint chiefs of staff.

We first heard the title of CSFO from Star Trek II, I believe. The implication was that Kirk was in charge of the strategic deployment and management of the fleet...more of a command function than a TNG-style operations function.

IMO, the CSFO would definitely wear red.

Oops...bad cut there...the quote was supposed to be Chiefs of Starfleet Operations...

These were some changes I worked up for post DS9 starfleet uniforms.

http://216.40.212.6/forum/showthread...&threadid=1016

I continue to use the 'standard' uniform as seen on DS9 and TNG. A person wears the branch colors of their chosen field until they are complete the command certification training. When a person completes this 'command' training they are authorized to wear 'Command Red.' This can be done at any time in their career. (This differs frim 'Command School' where an officer is certified to take command of a ship, e.g. Troi.) Just because a person is authorized to wear command red does not mean they must (thank Troi for that one). Further, an officer can transfer from branch to branch, hence Worf's transfer from command to security, then back to command (Geordi transferred too). Admirals must attend the Starfleet Staff College (to learn how to be an Admiral) and therefore are authorized to wear command red.