Do we even need Decipher anymore?

Question to the professional writers here.
How much would you like to write professional quality netbooks?

Question to the professional layout artist here.
How much would you like to do the layout of those text?

I ask those questions because I understand perfectly that a line has to be drawn better a fan involvement in writing and a professional spending hours writing to pay the rent. On the other hand, I would gladly contribute a few bucks (and probably more) so that the people creating the netbooks get the reward they deserve in addition to the eternal thanks of the fans.
Any other here who would contribute?
If enough can contribute to meet the costs, would the writers and artists be interested in the project?

Mike

i don't see how any of this can be legal but i'm all for it!
(assuming it's legal ;)

"I went to ADB's "Prime Directive" rpg
they have already come out with "Empire of Steel"
i.e. The Klingons
next up..The Romulans"

Well, ADB hasn't released a Prime Directive product in two years, either, so I don't see how they're a better prospect...

Speaking as someone who's still using the ICON system, and who used FASA for years after it went out of print, I'm definitely of the opinion that you don't need a current line of products to play. I mean, sure it'd be great to have a steady (or even sporadic) stream of new product out there, but if it isn't going to happen, there's no real need to freak out.

Frankly, there's more source material out there for Trek than any other fictional milieu (and that includes Star Wars.It's not really that difficult to apply game mechanics to that material.

I'm used to having game systems I like yanked out from under me, but it's never stopped me from continuing to play.

Fan support in the form of Netbooks and websites is a marvelous idea. I do think however that introducing monetary incentives into the mix beyond web-hosting costs and the like is asking for trouble from the licensees and licensors... While the lack of payment does not guarantee that an endeavour of this type will slip through under fair use, financial compensation virtually guarantees attracting unwanted legal attention. Remember, we live in litigious times.

Also, remember, the flip-side to the whole "if they don't release Trek RPG materials don't buy any of their stuff" is that if they do release them, buy them. Positive reinforcement goes a lot farther than boycotts.

IOW, buy less or no CCG from them, buy more RPG from them.

That's what I do with Wizards' selection of wares.

actually buying more ccg from them may allow them to use some of that profit and support a less profitable or losing product line like rpg ;) plus trek 2nd edition ccg is so fun.

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Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
Well, ADB hasn't released a Prime Directive product in two years, either, so I don't see how they're a better prospect...

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Module Prime Alpha and Klingons were both released in the second half of 2003, so I'm not sure where you get the above idea from.

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I'm definitely of the opinion that you don't need a current line of products to play.

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I totally agree with this.


What's more rummaging around in second hand bins or hunting for stuff on eBay gives one access to everything produced for FASA/PD/LUG/DEC/GPD, that's five systems worth of material to cherry pick for senarios, backgrounds, ideas, etc.

"Module Prime Alpha and Klingons were both released in the second half of 2003, so I'm not sure where you get the above idea from."

From their website - Klingons is listed, but the last update was in 2002. So, in other words, their own website isn't any more reliable than Decipher's, eh? Hmmmph. (Earth to games publishers - if your website isn't complete, accurate and up to date, you might as well not have one...)

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Originally posted by D.S.McBride
Don: I decided to check your Abulia Savant site today and noticed that you mentioned discussions with the Decipher upper-echelon on e-publishing the ENT work you'd done for them. Does this form of release apply to the rest of the queued works as well?

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I can't say; I don't know the particulars of the contracts. My gut reaction is no; a standard Decipher Work For Hire agreement is 25% on acceptance and 75% 90 days after publication. (Be it in printed or electronic format.)

My being paid for ENT entirely upfront was something of a rarity, meaning that any other books that would be published (i.e. Klingons et al.) would incur Decipher additional costs in payment to writers and artists.

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I recall that pretty much this same discussion was held with Wizards back in Sept. '00, after Decipher:rolleyes: had picked up the licence. While that proposal, obviously, was not followed through on (God knows why), does it look as though there's been any progress on this end? E-publication, quite honestly, seems to be the best possible solution for all involved at this point: it gets the work out there at - as you stated - minimal cost; they can charge a fee per book that would keep them in the black; and it shuts the ravening horde of consumers up and lets Decipher close the door on this matter forever.

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Expense versus revenue. There's no point in taking of the expense and headache of even an electronic distribution and payment to authors and artists on a line that you know you don't want to continue. (Editors Note: This is exactly what I said when the studio was first closed; no Line Developer = no intention of printing anything.)

Plus if you're trying to sub-license or sell the property do you think it increases or decreases the value of the property to include a dozen nearly-complete products in the deal or not? Yea, exactly.

They're not gonna see print through Decipher, folks.

Since you have already been paid for the Enterprise book and the additional costs for selling it as a pdf online are negligible it should seem reasonable even to Decipher that this would be the best course of action.
Moreover, the Enterprise book could be considered a test run to see how much resonance they can expect.
I'm afraid, however, that, since the Enterprise book hasn't been updated for quite some time, the sale figures would make you underestimate the number of people willing to pay for the other unpublished books, like Worlds or the Klingon sourcebook.
I believe a preorder option might solve this problem. Decipher should be able to calculate how many people would have to preorder the book so they make a profit (after paying those outstanding 75% (Bastards! :D). So, after enough people have preordered a certain book, they could decide about whether to make it available or not, without the risk of loosing any money. Do you think this could work?

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Originally posted by Ergi
Do you think this could work?

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No, because they're shopping the line. They want out, they don't want to publish more books.

The RPGs made Decipher money, they just didn't make Decipher enough money. Decipher isn't going to spend any more time (or money!) on these lines. Even an electronic release takes man-hours and time; time that could be spent on more profitable products like CCGs. Why else are they releasing 2+ year old adventure re-treds?

Don: Thanks for the clue-in and update. Wasn't aware of those particulars regarding the contracts, pay-outs, etc.

With this information at hand, I've accepted as fact at this point that any further Coda-system publications - be they Trek or LotR - are going to have to be the work of a third party, if they ever see the light of day at all. And, quite frankly, I've got to agree with Ineti that the chances of that little miracle happening are dwindling into the black hole's event horizon as I write this.

My feeling, back in late January, was that Worlds had a roughly fifty-fifty chance of getting out; the others - expletive deleted - might as well have been given up for lost even then. I am now revising my opinion to include Worlds in that missing-and-presumed-dead file; it's all up to us, now. While, as you indicated in another forum, Don, we'll have to wait a bit before Decipher announces the official time of death and pulls the sheet over the corpse, we might as well start getting organized and ready to roll as soon as the word comes through.

So, who's next in line for picking up the Trek license? Time to start the rumor mill. :)

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Originally posted by jened

actually buying more ccg from them may allow them to use some of that profit and support a less profitable or losing product line like rpg ;) plus trek 2nd edition ccg is so fun.

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That would be a bad business model, IMHO. Any smart Ferengi would know that you eliminate the weakest sale and focus on your strongest sale. If you have to take profit from one product to support another product that is not taking in as much profit to support itself, you cut your loss and fast.

For Decipher, who started their business as a CCG publisher, it's not too difficult for them to drop the studio.

Well I don't think we'll see another ST RPG for a while, if ever. If someone decided to pick the licence and start a new line I don't think it would work; prospective players will just assume that the line will last a year or two, like LUG or Decipher's lines. And I said "if ever" because let's face it, the Star Trek franchise is nowere near as popular as it used to be, except now for a few die-hards as ourselves. I think that the best time to have released a ST RPG was in the early '80s when ST, because of TNG, was hugely popular- that was when ST almost became 'mainstream'. A new RPG then would have also been able to pick up where FASA left off. But nowadays the end of an RPG line isn't that bad in a sense because of this wonderful invention called the internet. We can trade ideas, make our own sourcebooks, etc. With the powerful tools that are available today we can even make very professional looking products at home. Lastly, the major difference with Star Trek as a RPG licence is the huge amount of non-RPG reference material that exists. So in essence all you need is a few core books (starships, worlds, creatures, etc) and you should have pretty much all you need to play. And going back to net ressources nowadays it is much easier to recover old material from defunct lines. For instance, there were a few FASA products I was hunting in the early and mid 90's and I was only able to finally find them a couple of years ago through the net. Ah and speaking of FASA it is still today my favorite ST system. If I'd play again (haven't played in aged!) that would be my system of choice. Too bad they don't award prizes for digressions, I'd win.

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Originally posted by Ergi
So, who's next in line for picking up the Trek license? Time to start the rumor mill. :)

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Question is: Who would want the cursed ST line? As a long time Trek fan and a bandwagon fan of LotR since 2001, I would venture a guess that WoC might want Star Trek line.

I couldn't bring myself to purchase ST in the D20 setting. Setting 16 on phaser doing 3D8 damage and crits on a 19-20. :rolleyes: