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War should be declared against known states that sponsor terrorism. Don't jump to any conclusions my ass! Why mess around? The US should pick a target city (preferably one signifcant to these fanatics) give the citizens time to evacuate (we' are't cold blooded killers)and nuke that place as a warning not to mess with
the worlds citizenry in such a barbaric manner. It sickens me these states were out celebrating in the streets when their "matyrs" (cowards)killed countless innocents people. I have no respect for them. The US went to barter peace agreements and we get stabbed in the back. Now if this is one giant sheepdipping by other parties heaven help those traitors too. Why should my family or yours be threatened or endangered by these fanactic SOBs that fire Ak-47s in their streets and teach their kids to kill us for the glory of God? Mindless barbarians. As if the Jem'Hadar attacked America today. WE SHALL STRIKE BACK and gain the unevitable righteous triumph to overwhelming victory! Then we can celebrate their defeat and make
this world a place where these cowards no longer exist except as a word in a dictionary. America you have my total support and sympathy to your tragic loss. It is truly time to stand and fight. I shall not become a victim and neither should you!
I wish to apologize to anyone offended by what I said because there are mostly good people that live in the mid-east that I work with etc and they are not the barbarians I see on TV and I urge all you peaceful people of such cultures to help us eradicate this threat not only to you but us all. I must confess with my emotions at present my judgement is suspect but how would those people cheering in the mid-east today like it if I hijacked their plane and crashed it into
a building significant to them. Damn right. You wanna stop a war? A "jihad?" Help us please.
[This message has been edited by Weyoun11 (edited 09-11-2001).]
This was my journal entry today...
September 11th, 2001
I think that the world changed today.
It is 6:00 pm, and there was an attack on American soil today. The World Trade Center, one of the great symbols of American influence, as well as the center of international trade, was destroyed by two hijacked airliners that were crashed into the buildings. A section of the Pentagon was destroyed in a similar attack. Another plane crashed outside of Pittsburgh, it’s goal unclear. And, just now, it has been reported that there is a bombing attack of the city of Kabul in Afghanistan, where Osma Bin Laden is said to be living. The attack is currently not believed to be from the US, but reports are unclear.
I fear the change that I see coming.
I fear that a sleeping giant has been awakened. I fear that someone has decided to play “Pull My Finger” with the 800 pound gorilla. And I fear the consequences.
The US is, mostly, a gentle giant. We do not like to become involved in world affairs. When we do, we tend to do it badly (look at our performance in the mideast as an example). We rarely bring the full brunt of our power to bear. When we do, the effects can be swift and terrible. WWII, The Manhattan Project, Desert Storm. We can crush almost anyone, militarily and economically. And I am afraid that we will do so now. In our rage, we may lash out and destroy anyone who may be even remotely related to this.
I am afraid that we will give in to the darker angels of our nature, and become that which we most hate. A police state, where there are heavily armed officers everywhere, and we have public areas cordoned off, laws against public gatherings, symbols of freedom sealed away from the public, and an anti-aircraft gun on every roof. I fear that we will become our own savage doppelgangers.
I fear that sleeper that has awakened.
I fear that the world has changed. Because I fear that WE have.
When this happened Karg & I ran to the roof of out building in Queens Village. We saw it. My god, I'll take the memory to my grave.
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"This battlestation is now the ultimate power in...who's hailing us? I don't care who these 'Borg' are, THEY CAN WAIT!!!"
Admiral Motti, now Eighth Of Eight
I just spent three months in Saudi Arabia and was alert for terrorists every day. I got back to the States last week and heaved a sigh of relief because I could relax and feel safe.
The Arabs I met were all just ordinary people. They had jobs, most of them had families, and they just wanted to live their lives and not have anyone bother them or try to kill them. It only takes a few fanatic psychos to give all Moslems a bad reputation. Whatever we do in response to this attack, I hope we do to the individuals responsible, and not to any nation which is mostly innocent people who just want to live their lives in peace.
Whatever happens next, I plan on living my life the way I always have. If I let terrorists affect me, they win.
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:) <<<<
LUGTrek isn't really dead. Not as long as we remember it.
Chill.Quote:
Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:
As I speak, The United States is striking Afganistan.
We have 100% proof it was Bin Laden.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!
I will turn off posting privileges if people get out of hand.
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/sig_don.gif
Like good o' Jack burton would say "S.O.B. MUST PAY!!!"
Sorry Sarge but Bush just said. (not exact quote) "And we will make no disctinction between the individuals responsible and the people who hide them."
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Jesus saves.. and takes half damage.
Sounds like they're presenting Afghanistan with an ultimatum and we'll wait on that before acting.
About the Afghanistanian explosions... Was this Bin Laden's attacking them as well? If it were a full blown coup I would have expected more news about it by now.
I doubt bin Laden would be attacking the Taliban himself - from all accounts he's their biggest (and only) fan.
Just (I hope) to cool tempers a little - I just re-ran the tape of the Palestinian "celebrations" several times, watching carefully. There was perhaps twenty or thirty people directly in the "camera's face" jumping about and dancing, and exhorting their kids to do the same.
In the background, there were dozens and dozens of people on the street just watching quietly, others looking out of shops, etc. I could see many of them shaking their heads and walking back inside.
In all seriousness (and I know you guys need to blow off steam - that's fine), I don't think the majority (or even a significant minority) of Palestinians are "celebrating" this reprehensible act.
Just please, please discourage in any way you can even the thought of people taking out their anger on Arabs/Muslims living in America...the reports that Arab communities are already getting death threats terrifies me. This is exactly the sort of internal division and chaos the terrorists hope to sow - giving in to them simply lets them win.
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"Every atom in our bodies was forged in the furnace of ancient stars - it is our destiny to return home..."
Thank you, Aldaron, for that voice of reason.
Ditto.Quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Thank you, Aldaron, for that voice of reason.
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This is a very bad thing[tm] to happen. But, at the same time it is a very good thing[tm] to happen.
We have a death toll estimated to be now at around 100,000. We have our anger running wild. We need to calm down & remember one thing, "Revenge is a dish best served cold." I say we find the batards who did this & just kill them. Don't let them have their trials, just put a bullet in their brain & move on. 'Nuff said.
This is also a good thing because for the first time in my life I have seen lawmakers embrace each other & really call for unity.
In the end, come what may we are all FREE PEOPLE LIVING IN A FREE REPUBLIC. & they will reap the whirlwind.
To the USMC, recall me & put me to use, I am ready to do what it takes to gain our revenge against the terrorists who had a hand in this.
But, I ask of you to calm down & remember, we will get our revenge, we will avenge the men, women, & children who were killed. But, we must be calm & do it in a manner that will leave no doubt in anyone's head that we did what we did for a reason. Remember, we are who we are because of the country we live in, we may take our time, but once we get going we will get that which we need, vengence & justice.
~LL
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"When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite. " - Sir Winston Churchill
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_13th_Fleet_Starfleet_Academy
http://www.haz-matt.com/13thfleet/
Two things I heard:
A senior Palestinian official said, and I paraphrase, "Some of our people didn't understand the magnitude of this. Those were the ones celebrating."
And, it's entirely plausible that the oppostion to the Taliban rocketed up Kabal. After all, last weekend their leader was assassinated by a pro-Taliban suicide bomber.
Alex
The date was chosen for its impact, it is 23 (1978 I think) years ago today that the Camp David Accords were signed. Though the 911 analogy is interesting to.Quote:
Originally posted by Sevekk:
As many newscasters have mentioned, please note todays date. 9-11-01.
911
the Emergancy phone number in most of the US, I think that even the date was chosen for its impact.
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In the Praetors Name!
Fools !
Their attack was futile and inhuman, but violance will lead to even more pain.
You make me sick, american...
Clinton was on the right way, but now with Bush and his policy, you're going into war.
Think well before acting, cause youll risk your little empire.
You bombard civilian in irak. You bombard a lot of peaple in the middle-orient. So there it is ! War...
Quote:
Originally posted by Angry_Cartman:
Well, at least someone else here shares my opinion that Israeli involvement COULD (notice the use of the condidtional here) be plausible.
And why, I'm asking again, is it such a ludicrous idea? If you think that a few thousand US lives is worth anything to those scheming bastards at the Mossad then think again. They were feeling the heat rise like never before. Remember, the cold war is over, no more bad commies that supported Syria and Egypt, forcing the US in turn to support Israel; Now many Westerners are increasingly questionning US' support of Israel. Succinctly put, their support base is being eroded.
Personnally I don't understand why we support those spoiled crybabies. Guilt over the Holocaust? Screw that. We have nothing to do with that. Basically, why should innocent North Americans pay for Israel's pig-headedness? It's like you taking the s*** every time you try to bail out your no-good friend who is a bum in spite of compassion. They don't want to compromise? Fine, I'd leave them to their own devices.
Well in any case, as I'm telling the folks around me... I'd really hate being an Arab-American right now...
On another note, I'm afraid too that this is the beginning of something very ugly... I've been browsing around and there's lots of Americans screaming for revenge... even those we normally consider to be "liberal sissies"; I really think whoever did this just kicked the wasps'nest, and did not expect such outrage. Usually I would think that the US public at large would be angry for a while than slowly forget and return to their usual complaiscancy (sp?) but I have a feeling that this time it won't be the case.
Yes, these will be the wars of the future. Democratic nations will have 2 choices if they want to survive: Either dump tons of money and ressources into poorer countries to alleviate any resentment towards Western nations, as well as giving in to most if not all of those nations' demands, or fight a total war, and turn those countries into Western colonies again. And if they prove to be too hard to pacify... well then wipe them out.
I favor the second option.
[This message has been edited by Angry_Cartman (edited 09-11-2001).]
WHAT THE HELL!!!!! The Mossad are no different then any other intelligence agency (CIA, MI6, etc.) TO all those that think the Mossad is responsible...seek help.
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In the Praetors Name!
My god this is terrible day for humanity. Such cowardly and senseless attacks are a disgrace to all mankind. And to what end? Nothing. I'm no great political or millitary mind and even I know, that no matter how well planned, no matter how horrific an attack is launched by terrorists on the United States, they will not change the course they've set for themselves. And nor should they. The only thing that this attack has forced the American government to do is to strike back. I just pray the exemplary reserve and calm displayed by American officials will hold and if a country is found to be at fault not just a group of unaffiliated terrorists, that their counter attack will not add more innocent lives to those which have already been lost.
As for those directly responsible, I hope they are found and made to pay for this, outrage. Though really not even their blood can truely repay the thousands of lives lost today.
As a Canadian I offer my thoughts and prayers to our American brothers and sisters and hope they can heal these wounds inflicted upon their land and their psyche, know the world is with you.
It is a sad, sad day ... this Semptember 11, 2001. And I am reminded recently of the haunting words uttered by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt in 1941:
I undertand that our emotions are running high, as well as fear and our anger. Cooler heads must prevail. We must not blame all for the action of a few. There are those in the Muslim and Arab community that are appalled by this attack, as much as the Japanese living in the United States are appalled by the attack on Pearl Harbor by the Empire of Japan back in 1941. And you knew how much they are loyal to the US when the Japanese-Americans enlisted into the US Army and have become the most highly decorated combat unit, 100th Battalion 442nd Regiment (even though the reason for enslisting is to escape the US government-ordered internment camps).Quote:
A date which will live in infamy.
We will find out who is responsible and we make sure that we have the evidence before we strike. Right now, I'll send my prayers and aloha to everyone, to the deceased and survivors, New York and beyond who witness it firsthand or on TV.
And these are not random thoughts, but my thoughts for the past 11 hours ... since I woke up at 5 a.m. Hawaiian Standard Time and switched my TV ... on this sad, sad day. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif
[This message has been edited by REG (edited 09-11-2001).]
And you make me ill... you make me ashamed of being Canadian.Quote:
Fools !
Their attack was futile and inhuman, but violance will lead to even more pain.
You make me sick, american...
Thousands of people died. The Americans have every right to call for blood. If this happeened in Montreal or Toronto, I would be leading the march to frag whoever was responsible.
Bush or Clinton its all the same - Billy boy would have done no different. Terrorists need to know that the free world can and will defend itself.
I want to see a strike against those responsible. I want it decisive. I want it flashy. I want it big....very big. I want it frightening in its intensity. A final message to all those who think the West is a handy target for all those crackpots of the world.
I would caution everyone during these difficult times, while emotions are running high, to consider their words and sentiments carefully. Rash posts without such consideration may anger others or leave a lasting impression not easily dissuaded at a later date.
To that end, please review any posts carefully prior to submitting them and should you be caught in the emotions of the moment I would suggest you refrain from participating until you have had time to ‘cool off.’
In the end we are all brought together by a common interest and share this community; a community that should be bound together in support and concern, not fragmented by reckless speculation and ill-thought words.
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[This message has been edited by Don (edited 09-11-2001).]
Yeah Don, you are right.
We should invite our enemies over for tea and crumpets and talk about their feelings inside, why are they so violent and such and then all hug one another so everyting will be all right...
Oh and about those "wild theories", you may want to check out Steve Ostrovsky's books "By Way of Deception" and "The Other Side of Deception". Steve Ostrovsky is an ex-Mossad agent.
As for fellow Canadian Hentar... ferme ta gueule petite merde, si je t'avais devant moi je te foutrerais mon poing sur ta tronche de tapette...
[This message has been edited by Angry_Cartman (edited 09-11-2001).]
Don, one of my players just heard me read your post over the phone.
In her words your response was "classy" and "mature".
I respect what you said and share your sentinment. You have not told us what you think about the incident, but instead what you feel about the comments made here. Bravo.
She also wonders why everyone who plays a game about a Federation that promotes respect and harmony amoungst a diversity of races and always seeks peaceful solutions would be so intolerant of others opinions and thoughts.
Sigh...I fear the Federation is a long way away for us still...
One very sad Canadian...
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Captain Zymmer
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Visit Star Trek:Lexington at;
http://www.usslexington.net
=-=-=-=-=-=
And you make me proud of being french.
"When a man point is finger at the moon, only a fool will look at the finger"
A little chinese wisdom should help you calm down.
I think violence will not arrange nothing, and those who call for a strike are as inhuman as the terrorist themself. Remember that they do not attack for nothing, while i do not agree on what theyve done (obviously), i just want to point out the vicious circle. American attack musulman, musulman attack american ambassady, American seek revenge, musulman seek revenge, ad infinitum...
The masses want blood
Well, it'll have blood
Ignorance will shed blood again
Cartman, thank you for being an excellent example of proving my point.Quote:
Originally posted by Angry_Cartman:
Yeah Don, you are right.
We should invite our enemies over for tea and crumpets and talk about their feelings inside, why are they so violent and such and then all hug one another so everyting will be all right...
I don’t intend to tell people how to feel or react to the situation, I am merely asking for people to carefully consider their actions (and posts) prior to making them.
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Oh, there's an end to it all right, and end a lot of folks may be seeing all too soon, if they don't wise up REALLY fast.
There's an old quote: "The Romans make a desert, and they call it peace." We're the Romans now, bucko.
Attacking US civilians on US soil in this manner is probably the STUPIDEST thing a body could do. When this country goes off, we go PSYCHOTIC.
Didn't anybody learn anything from Pearl Harbor? After Pearl, the people of the U.S were ready and willing to wipe the Japanese nation off the surface of the planet! And anyone who got in the way of that goal, as well. We might very well have done so, had they not surrendered when they did. As it is, we dropped two nuclear weapons on them before we were through.
And this attack is far, far worse than Pearl was. Pearl was military. These were civilians. We could DO this, if we chose to. Part of me - the part I'm desperately trying to ignore - thinks we should, just to show them that we can play at that level a lot better and a lot harder than they could. Level a city every hour until BinLaden's head is handed to us.
No, that's not the answer. But right now, it'd FEEL damned good.
I really hope we can avoid attacking innocent arab-americans for this. But if it turns out that the terrorists were residents as well (someone even suggested that an ACTUAL airline pilot might have been a terrorist), this may be a futile hope.
That stakes have been raised. We can either fold or call. If we fold, they'll just do it again the next time they want something. If we call... we'd better win the hand.
I'm not sure who would be insulted by anything said at this time. Except me, of course, about what some people are trying to spread about the MOSSAD. All I have to say is "WAKE UP!" There is a war going on out there, one that has been rageing for the last 30 years, and the Israelis have been the only ones who have continued to hold the line against the darkness. While the rest of us in West have stuck our heads in the sand, and blinded ourselves to the fact that terrorism "can't happen here," that we "are safe" from those elements, that "it only happens over there..." What most of us in the West didn't seem to realize is that if you have your head in the sand, you are in the perfect position for someone to come along and kick you right in the ass. Well, it looks like Bin Laden had his steel toed boots on today. And before anyone launches into "we don't know who did this" well, (IMHO) look at the facts;
1) Despite what the Afgans said, the guy is loaded out the whazoo...he has the resources.
2) He was behind the WTC bombing.
3) His men planned and executed the simutaneous bombing on the American Embassies in Africa...Sounds like a test to me.
But as I said that is only my opinion.
As to restraint...I agree until you have found those responsible...then as has been stated previously on thread make sure they reap the whirlwind. If you go in make sure no-one is left standing...NO-ONE. I'm sorry but if someone who is trying to kill me is hiding in a house with "innocents" I'm still going to lay into the house so I'm the one that walks away. He who hides the gunman is no longer a bystander. Since other have used game terms here, I will use a movie quote "Wipe them out, all of them."
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In the Praetors Name!
I have been following this event sice it happened this morning. I was on my way to work and herd the news on my car's radio. As soon as I got to work, I turned on the tv and was glued to it all day. Not that I had to worry about not getting any work done, hardly any customers came into the store today. Here it is 14 hours later and I am still as shocked as when I first heard about today's horrific events. All I have felt all day is sorrow, anger, and horrow as I think about the catastrophic loss of life.
I remember years ago befor I enlisted in the Army how gung ho I was. I was young, nieve, eager to go into combat and prove myself. Then when Desert Storm erupted, I had my chance. I went, I did my duty, and realized the true horror of warfare. It took that event to make me realize that violence really dosent accomplish anything exept creat more sorrow. Over the last couple of years, I felt that I had matured and became more enlightened. One of the things that appealed to me about Star Trek was the Federation and its ideals. I feel its the model society and thats where I would like to see humanity.
With today's events, we have proved that we have a long way to go. The reason I say this is now I have no intrest in world peace or creating a brighter future. It saddens me to say that I have regressed to the attitude I had in my youth. The more I think about this the angrier I get. I'm shocked to here myself, but I want blood. These people must pay for what they have done and the must pay dearly.
Lets remember that every US soldier that has ever fallen in battle gave his life for freedom. So that the people of the United States could continue to be free. If our nation fails to respond to this attack on our way of life, then those brave men and women who paid the ultimate price for our freedom will have done so in vain. As a war vet I can not tolerate that. I read a quote somewhere, it goes "The protected enjoy a freedom that they can never truly appreciate." It refers to the civillians who never served in the armed forces. It also refers to the fact that Americans are generally complacent and take alot of things for granted. Before today, I feel only veterans would undestand that quote. Now, it seems that everyone will. I just wish that understanding was acheived another way.
I know I'm just rambling on, but I had to get it off my chest. I dont know if I'll ever have those feelings that made me like Trek so much or if I really want to. Later
I woke up this morning to find that my country had been attacked! My Department mobilized and I was at work for 14 hrs.
This is ten times worse than Pearl Harbor!
Never would I had thought that this could have happened, or that there would be people so crule to do it.
Vengence is mine says the Lord. This time the United States of America will get vengence. And God help anyone who gets in the way!!
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First, I am healthy. In case anyone is doing a role call.
I heard a report that, in addition to the plane crashed in Pennsylvania, a plane crashed in Maryland "near Camp David". While I have not heard this again, it was only recently that I found confirmation of the State Department car bomb my Father told me about on the phone.
This is BAD MOJO.
For those looking for updates:
8:45 am, a plane hits the North tower of the World Trade Center
9:03 am, a plane hits the South tower, covered in multiple angles by TV cameras covering the first plane.
9:45 am, a plane crashes into the Pentegon
10:00 am, the South Tower collapses
10:15 am, a car bomb explodes at the State Department
10:29 am, the North Tower collapses.
If the second plane had hit at 9:15 instead of 9:03, that would be exactly every 30 minutes.
I'm going to bed.
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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
Although I follow international news, I'm somewhat confused about the full details of a point stated earlier:
Why exactly do the Palestinians hate the United States -- so much that they would celebrate something like this happening?
Anybody have any political insights?
-- Eris
Quite simple, really. The Palestinians hate the Israelis. It's an old dispute largely about land.
Most of the Arab world was Soviet-Backed, and most of the arab world hated Israel. Since the enemy of my enemy is my friend (and the enemy of my enemy's friend is, well, ...) We became a good friend to Israel.
The Palestinians hate us because we like the Israelis, who the Palestinians hate.
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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
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No, that is confirmed. They are both down. Both towers hit, then collapse later (very well planned, I'm surprised they didn't hit lower to ensure a collapse).
There was just a report of a confirmed cell phone call that was made from this one plane jetting up the Potomak by a passenger locked in the bathroom, screaming that the plane had been hijacked. This plane, thankfully, never reached its intended target.
The injury extent at the Pentagon is stated at 40, with 7 in critical condition, due to the renovations going on. Considering what the terrorists were after, it's a blessing it was this low.
I forgot to mention my community's contribution to the emergency:
The USS George Washington and USS John F. Kennedy are on their way, allong with the entourage they like to call a Carrier Battle Group. While their specific destinations are not specified, they are headed "up the east coast" and it is expected that one will go up the Chesapeake Bay towards DC while the other makes for the Atlantic and NYC.
I'm not sure how much good a Carrier Battle Group will do, but I imagine it can't hurt.
(Perhaps they aren't part of the relief effort. Perhaps we think the attacks came from Greenland. Or Boston. Nice to know I still have a sense of humor.)
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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
BTW:
In the US, "nuke" has become slang for destroying something quite thouroughly. conventional bombs will do. Fists will serve.
all I can say is whoever did this thing had better hope we calm down before we find them. Under this kind of emotional distress, many of us could forget our feelings about peace, love, joy, and due process of law and rely instead on the primal release offered by stomping up and down on something until you feel better.
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http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/mad.gif http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/mad.gif http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/mad.gif http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/mad.gif http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/mad.gif
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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.
My god. . . what kind of madness have we spiraled into ??
To watch all of this hell unfold in front of the nation. . .
I couldn't help but think I'd woke up in the middle of a Tom Clancy novel....
We need prayers now, more then ever.