America's Loss

Gross. After being tied up for a week here. After watching the towers fall here in Manhattan...After checking on my civillian friends who where in the streets ranging any where from 2 Blocks to 7 blocks away as the towers feel (as the one 1 block away put it, "I could tell you the what color ties some of the peolpe who jumped out of the towers were wearing")... After having to account for my coworkers who work in the building behind One Liberty Plaza.....After not being able to accout for friends of mine who are Firemen and Police officers here a this point....After watching police cars escort a Tracker Trailer transporting bodies up MY street to bring them to a morge....After all this, I'm on standby awaiting word if the building down there are safe enough so we can going in this weekend to do a once over for my corp. SO, I decided to logon and see if what was going on the board to "escape" a bit. I return to some of the MOST FOOLISH statements I've seen in my life. To the point of vomiting. Go ahead, ban me. I'll shead a forthis, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! While many of the statment here are encouraging. Others have been ASTRONOMICALY....unbelieveable. I'll know better than to come back to these board. Do what you want with this post.... I won't see it again.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Capt.Hunter:
As for people celebrating this, I think you have to understand the level of hatred some of these populations feel towards the States.

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I'm not at my most rational, but right now I don't have much problem with attacking such people. They made it really clear whose side they are on, and we don't really want a multi-front war, so we need to cut down on our number of enemies. If that means we have to kill some of them just to take them off the table, I don't have a huge problem with that.

However, I agree with a sentiment I heard expressed on the news: the US should be looking for friends, not enemies. Instead of an attitude of "ARE YOU ONE OF THEM?!" we should be saying "Are you with us?". People who say "no", however, should realize what that means.

I'm not going to say that these people shouldn't be pissed off at us. I didn't mean to suggest that. They may have every reason to hate us.
However, the Sleeping Giant is now awake, and only a fool will get in his way. You think what happened before was bad? We are 300 million people worth of angry, and what you want most in the world is to NOT have our attention focussed on you. Tell your populace that you will address your complaints with the US to the US, but you are not willing to stand with the villians who commited this heinous act just because you hate the victims too.


Sitting over here in North America, we Americans tend to think of other people's problems as just that: other people's problems. Sometimes it impinges upon us a little, and we do something kind of half-assed about it (like Somalia and Vietnam). However, once our attention is focussed, we SOLVE our problems. (WWII, for example). This problem will take a long time to solve, but I doubt we will calm down about it for decades. The attention of one of the (of not the) largest economy, military, and most technologically advanced nations on earth is focussed, and like the Apollo program it can be amazing when that happens.

I think that the reaction to this tragedy will not be a less agressive US foreign policy, but a MORE agressive one. Whenever we'd send peace-keeping forces to places like Bosnia and Somalia, people (me included) would say, "We can't police-force the whole world." JUST WATCH US. We CAN, we just didn't really want to.
If sticking our nose in everybody's business is what it takes to keep Americans safe, I'm ok with that.

Anyone who thought we were heavy-handed before is going to be amazed at just how heavy-handed we can be, and going to long for the "good old days" before the US got involved in their problems.

I think that Britain doesn't have to worry about IRA violence any more. And the Irish Catholics need not fear violence from pro-Britain extremists. And they can thank Osama bin Laden. When I say we won't put up with this kind of stuff, I mean EVERYONE.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

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Originally posted by Capt.Hunter:
"You look at US technocracy, and you see a man on the moon".

And would that really have happened if you weren't so worried about the Russians beating you to it? My point being, given sufficient incentive, any nation can be ingenious.

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Seems to me the Russians had the same incentive. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif



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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

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Originally posted by Keny Suda:
dimeboy99


I never ment to say, that the Conservatives are racists.
It's just that I was somehow impressed by Bush's words. I didn't expect such reasonable words because of some of his former statements.

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When my brother expressed concern over Bush's possable reactions, I said, "He may be an idiot, but he isn't a fool." I then suggested that he would call Colin Powel, Dick Cheney, and even his father for advice. "Dad, I think being governor really helped prepare me for this job, and I did it well. But, .... Texas never went to WAR while I was governor. What should I do?"

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

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Originally posted by Capt.Hunter:
I too make a distinction between individuals and governments. Heck, my own government (whether this or the last) has made some decisions I find questionable.

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't'sokay.
Not only do I often think the "leaders of our nation" are twits, I sometimes think the same thing about yours. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif


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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

Incensed as I am, I still have the love of the English language my parents gave me, and I think we all need to watch our rhetoric.
We should stop calling these "cowardly acts". While they might be cowardly (although I think it probably takes some balls to fly into a building), we are not angry about how cowardly it was. Lots of people are cowardly every day and it doesn't pis us off.
People who make threats like "sleep well in your beds if you can, terrorists" are expressing a sentiment VERY like that of the attackers.
Other points:

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Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:
Nothing justifies killing on this scale.(snip)
When someone plans the death of thousands, they are subhuman.

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We've done it. We intentionally firebombed Tokyo. We dropped atomic bombs twice. On mostly civilian targets. With the intention of terrifying the populace.

The circumstance were different.
Therefore, it is mainly the circumstances we condemn, not the acts themselves, I guess. But if plotting the death of thousands makes one subhuman, we got a lot of Army Generals and a few ex-presidents who are sub-human.


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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

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Originally posted by Publius:

Remember New York.
Remember the Pentagon.
Remember the fallen and those who unselfishly tried to help them only to became victims themselves.

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You know, I considerably less pissed about the Pentagon.
Still pissed, mind you, but less so. The people there were part of the military, it was a military target, and even with a cushy office job you should recognize the risk when you take the job. It is always sad when an attacker kills such people, but... it IS part of the job.

I'm pissed about it, but no moreso than if those people had been on a warship.

It's the Civilian targets and the use of hijacked passenger planes that pisses me off most.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

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Originally posted by Jonathan Talbot:
At this moment I am reminded of a Catoon Character from WWII (I think.) his name was POGO. In one of his skits he is in a GI's uniform and he is looking out at the enemy and is qouted as saying. " We have met the Enemy and they are us."

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He was out partolling near his home, looking for "Enemy Activity". (He lived in the Okeefenokee.) He found tracks. he followed them, certain that he was tracking "the Enemy". He found that the tracks circled back and joined up, which he took as a large group forming up.
Until he realized that he was walking in circles. He has been narrating, in journal form. He makes an entry, "We have met the Enemy, and he is us."

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

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Originally posted by Weyoun11:

"Without the white the Jem'Hadar will die."--Admiral Ross
"I won't shed any tears."--Jadzia Dax ("A TIME TO STAND")

"There are rules Garak even in war."--Obrien
"Correction. Humans make rules in war. Rules that tend to make victory a little harder in my opinion."--Garak
"This isn't a vote. And Garak's right--we're
at war. Given a choice between us or them, there is no choice."--Cpt. Sisko

"Are you really ready to give up your life just for "the order of things"?"--Sisko
"It is not my life to give up Captain. And it never was. Our death brings glory to the founders."--Remeta'Klan
"What he say?"--Obrien
"All the wrong things."--Sisko

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"How many, Admiral? How many before it's wrong?" - Picard.


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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

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Originally posted by C. Huth:
And this is what scares me. Revenge just continues the misery and suffering. Do you want this to end well, or do you want this to send Earth screaming into the Abyss? If the former, Do Not Retailiate. Talk with them. Be the better people. It will be painful, it IS painful, but for the good of the world, don't make this mistake.

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originally posted by SpyOne:
Whoever did this must be convinced that this was NOT a GOOD plan. They must be made to never want to do anything remotely like this again. And they must be made an example to deter others who might do something like this in the future.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

As Stated Before and will be stated again, the Terrorist that did, this the group that is left alive, must and should be brought to trail. Any NAtion that has supported and hide this group must have Leaders who allowed for this group to come in must be punished also.

However, when we go to War and rest assure we are going to War, we must not lose our heads about this or else a real World War this will be, not a limited Military response.

Now til recently, we have been taking a relaxed view about Terrorism here in the States, because it could never happen to us... ( Well that attitude is gone, from the originall WTC building, the the Oklahoma CIty Bombing, to this Tuesday's Attack. Hey Terrorist Three Strikes.... You are OUT!!!)

You have not woken a Sleeping giant you have enraged a gentle giant a giant who knows it's strength and has been cautious in using it, because we might crush the flower we held, or the Bee that was on that flower, because we enjoy it's look and it's peacefulness. We will now spend every waking moment hunting these groups down, and what will suprise the Islamic Fundamentalist the most is when they see there own country men hunting them down. WHen there is more then a Christian Nation coming at them. WHen more then One Religion comes at them all wrapped up in 300 million people.

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Jonathan Talbot.
Medical Officer
"First Away Team Mission... Beaming down to a Hostile Planet... Captain Kirk is leading the Away Team... I am wearing a red shirt... No Fear!!! Unknown Crew Member

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Originally posted by spyone:

"How many, Admiral? How many before it's wrong?" - Picard.

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"This is not about revenge. This is about saving the future of humanity!
We've made too many compromises, too many retreats already. They invade our space and we fall back, they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back. Well not again! The line must be drawn here this far and no farther! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" --Captain Jean-Luc Picard

"We tried it once your way Khan. Are you game for a rematch? Khan. I'm laughing at the superior intellect."--Admiral James T. Kirk

"It is you who have underestimated us your majesty."--Admiral Kathryn Janeway

"It may be that we shall by a process of sublime irony have reached a
stage in this story where safety will be the sturdy child of terror, and
survival the twin brother of annihilation."

Winston Churchill

This is an open letter that has been floating around for a few days (author unknown). I found it on another site and am reposting it here:

[BOLD]An open letter to a terrorist:

Well, you hit the World Trade Center, but you missed America. You hit the Pentagon, but you missed America. You used helpless American bodies, to take out other American bodies, but like a poor marksman, you STILL missed America.

Why? Because of something you guys will never understand.

America isn't about a building or two, not about financial centers, not about military centers. America isn't about a place, America isn't even about a bunch of bodies. America is about an IDEA. An idea that you can go someplace where you can earn as much as you can figure out how to, live for the most part, like you envisioned living, and pursue happiness. (No guarantees that you'll reach it, but you can sure try!)

Go ahead and whine your terrorist whine, and chant your terrorist litany: "If you cannot see my point, then feel my pain."


This concept is alien to Americans. We live in a country where we don't have to see your point. But you're free to have one. We don't have to listen to your speech. But you're free to say one. Don't know where you got the strange idea that everyone has to agree with you. We don't agree with each other in this country, almost as a matter of pride. We're a collection of guys that don't agree, called States. We united our individual states to protect ourselves from tyranny in the world. Another idea, we made up on the spot. You CAN make it up as you go, when it's your country.

If you're free enough.

Yeah, we're fat, sloppy, easy-going goofs most of the time. That's an unfortunate image to project to the world, but it comes of feeling free and easy about the world you live in. It's unfortunate too, because people start to forget that when you attack Americans, they tend to fight like a cornered badger. The first we knew of the War of 1812, was when England burned Washington D.C. to the ground. Didn't turn out like England thought it was going to, and it's not going to turn out like you think, either. Sorry, but you're not the first bully on our shores, just the most recent.

No Marquis of Queensbury rules for Americans, either. We were the FIRST and so far, only country in the world to use nuclear weapons in anger.

Horrific idea, nowadays? News for you bucko, it was back then too, but we used it anyway. Only had two of them in the whole world and we used 'em both. Grandpa Jones worked on the Manhattan Project. Told me once, that right up until they threw the switch, the physicists were still arguing over whether the Uranium alone would fission, or whether it would start a fissioning chain reaction that would eat everything. But they threw the switch anyway, because we had a War to win. Does that tell you something about American Resolve?

So who just declared War on us? It would be nice to point to some real estate, like the good old days. Unfortunately, we're probably at war with random camps, in far-flung places. Who think they're safe. Just like the Barbary Pirates did, IIRC. Better start sleeping with one eye open.

There's a spirit that tends to take over people who come to this country, looking for opportunity, looking for liberty, looking for freedom. Even if they misuse it. The Marielistas that Castro emptied out of his prisons, were overjoyed to find out how much freedom there was. First thing they did when they hit our shores, was run out and buy guns. The ones that didn't end up dead, ended up in prisons. It was a big pain in the ass then (especially in south Florida), but you're only the newest pain in the ass, not the first.

You guys seem to be incapable of understanding that we don't live in America, America lives in US! American Spirit is what it's called. And killing a few thousand of us, or a few million of us, won't change it. Most of the time, it's a pretty happy-go-lucky kind of Spirit. Until we're crossed in a cowardly manner, then it becomes an entirely different kind of Spirit.

Wait until you see what we do with that Spirit, this time.

Sleep tight, if you can. We're coming. [/BOLD]



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Deo Vindice!

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

You know, there's a special forum over at the 3dg site for this topic, and there are several Canadians on there too that are lecturing at us Americans with that "now, now, be civilized" tone.

What is it with you guys, anyways? Your country hasn't been attacked; ours has! The symbols of your nation didn't get kamikazed; ours did!

If you don't want to support us as we set out to slaughter every last terrorist we can get our hands on, then FINE! But don't you DARE lecture to us about "staying civilized"!

You don't have that right!

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Deo Vindice!

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

Darkwing please do not generalize all Canadians as tolerant gutless cowards because of the opinion of a few (who I suspect did not have roots like I have going back even before these two great nations of ours were formed). I am totally APALLED and INCENSED because of last Tuesdays attack on your soil but remember that the attack on the WTC had casualties from many nations. Canadians have lost 60-100 dead. Britain nearly twice as many and so on and so on. Our PM has fully backed the US as they were 75,000 of our countrymen that came out in Ottawa to mourn on Friday and the PM alongside your ambassador here stated, "Canadians shall not be silent". I am angry too that these Canadians do not realize they have been assaulted as well. Tolerance be damned. We have been tolerant for years. War is not a time to be dishing out flowers and consulting with guidance/grief conselors for hope of a better world. Get real. Yes we must strive for those honorable goals and try not to undermine our own principles but clearly these fanatics have no regard for anyone and the entire world community associated with the west in any form is their potential victim. TO say otherwise is to ignore what occurred last Tuesday as a very threat to our lives. Its easy to disassocciate from this act when you THINK you are not directly involved with it, it couldn't happen to you or its someone elses problem or even more diabolically think the act may have been justified. Some Canadians should be ashamed to call themselves as such. Traitors and cowards live among us everywhere I suppose. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif It should be interesting to note that a poem is going round the net by Canadian Gordon Sinclair that speaks to the hearts
of most Americans. The humourous thing (if there can be any at a time like this) is that some Americans are thanking him for writing it even though he wrote it years ago and hes been dead for years. AlL I can say is this Canadian and my families support the US and her allies to combat this "phantom menace" so that we can travel in planes or go to work without the fear of someone wanted to blow us up.

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Originally posted by spyone:

I think that Britain doesn't have to worry about IRA violence any more. And the Irish Catholics need not fear violence from pro-Britain extremists. And they can thank Osama bin Laden. When I say we won't put up with this kind of stuff, I mean EVERYONE.

[/B]

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We don't worry about IRA terrorsists so much any more. They are sitting in the government of Northern Ireland.

Sadly terrorists win sometimes. It is not until we listen to what they say and make compromises, that their attacks will stop.

I'm not for a second saying that the US should talk to a fanatic like bin Laden or acquiesce to his stated aim of removing US troops from the middle east. But somewhere in the future the US will have to modify its policy towards the middle east and Palestine, if it wants atrocities such as those on Tuesday to cease.

This does NOT mean that I condone terrorism in any shape or form. I am as saddened and appalled by Tuesday's attacks as everyone else.




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Greg

"Calm may work for Locutus of Borg here, but I'm freaked and intend to stay that way."
Xander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Prophecy Girl.

“I am not frightened. I’m going to blow them off the face of the earth with the fury of God’s own thunder.”

“Let the word ring forth from this time and this place. You kill an American, any American, we don’t come back with a proportional response, we come back with total disaster!”

“Did you know that 2000 years ago, a Roman Citizen could walk across the face of the known world free of the fear of molestation. He could walk across the earth unharmed, cloaked only in the protection of the words ‘civus romanus’: I am a Roman citizen. So great was the retribution of Rome universally understood as certain, should any harm befall even one of its citizens. Where was Morris’ protection or anyone else on that airplane? Where was the retribution for the families? Where is the warning to the rest of the world, that Americans shall walk this earth unharmed, lest the clenched fist of the most powerful nation in all mankind comes crashing down on your house?”

All quotes by President Bartlet (Martin Sheen) from the West Wing episode Proportional Response. They seem morbidly fitting now.

When I saw the World Trade Center in flames, my first thought was that this was some sick joke. I'm still not sure I've managed to face the full reality of what's happened.
I have never before heard the Battle Hymn of the Republic played so often, and I've never felt it to be more fitting.

I'll freely admit admit that I suspected that President Bush would act without thinking, and I'm very pleased to have been proven wrong. We in Europe have a tendency to forget that America has come to our support several times (WW1, WW2, the Cold War, Bosnia and Kosovo). Like EU President Romano Prodi said, now it's Europe's time to come to America's aid.

And besides, this terrorist act wasn't aimed at America itself, but everything it is the symbol of: democracy, liberty and market economy.

This terrorist act was aimed at the free world, and the free world must unite to combat it.

The Swedish Prime Minister put it well: "If democracy is unable to put an end to terrorism, terrorism will put an end to democracy."

This was an attack on all of us.

I'm also very relieved that the leaders (presidents and prime ministers) have all reminded us that islam and muslims are not collectively to blame. We should not persecute them. Instead:

Let us find bin Laden and his terrorist followers, and let us wipe them off the face of the Earth with the fury of God's own thunder.

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"It's an M-class planet, so there should be roddenberries."

Leela, Futurama

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Originally posted by C. Huth:
Do Not Retailiate.

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Huth do you think there is no price to be paid in all of this?

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Originally posted by StyroFoam Man:
Now that pisses me off, to suggest that I or anone elese civilized world does not know the difference between good and evil. Yes we are imperfect, we accept braodly that it is alright to kill in war, that is a sin which we as Christians and all faiths have delt and continue to deal with it but don't you dare to think of yourself as so rightous to say we don't know what good and evil are!

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Sorry. I do tend to get self-righteous in philosophical discussions.

The question I was trying to ask is what moral right do we have to exact vengeance on those who attack us?

[This message has been edited by C. Huth (edited 09-16-2001).]

This discussion has, unfortunately, not at all been helped by my presence. I’m just going to pull out. From now on, not a word from my mouth on these kinds of issues; it upsets too many people and contrary to what it may look like, I don’t like to do that. What do I know, anyway? ‘It is better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.’ My sincere apologies to those I have offended.

I hope that this situation may end well, but I doubt it.
Again, I’m sorry. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif (If you want me to delete my posts, I will)

[This message has been edited by C. Huth (edited 09-16-2001).]

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Originally posted by darkwing duck1:
You know, there's a special forum over at the 3dg site for this topic, and there are several Canadians on there too that are lecturing at us Americans with that "now, now, be civilized" tone.

What is it with you guys, anyways? Your country hasn't been attacked; ours has! The symbols of your nation didn't get kamikazed; ours did!

If you don't want to support us as we set out to slaughter every last terrorist we can get our hands on, then FINE! But don't you DARE lecture to us about "staying civilized"!

You don't have that right!

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I know that you are upset but you are tarring an entire nation because of a few people who may or may not be from there or are simply trolling the internet.

I have read similar posts from Americans. It is not their nationality at issue but rather their aims.

Everyone has developed an extremely thin skin since last Tuesday, I have ranted myself and you know that I seldom post anything overly large. I have no problem with this. But is anything gained by responding to a troll. They do not care what they have said as long as they get a response. They will never change their mind no matter what is said to them.

Allowing these small individuals anger you to the point that you begin insulting your friends lets them win.

C.Huth if we removed your post then we would become what we hate. The fact you can speak and say what you like as while as face the argument it invokes makes you ten times the better man, then those who who would have you only to keep your mouth shut and do nothing.

In a perfect world govern by wise and sane human beings your thoughts would be the truth, but we don't live in that perfect world. we are told that "those who live by the sworn shall perish by the sword" good quote but it leaves nothing as to the idenity and being of the being swaying the sword, does it? Until the day when the beings swaying the sword are allowed to sheath their swords, (which is the difference between the two,) conflict will be the norm. We are all peoples born of war, our collective nations tempered in its flames, all have been united by it, some have nearly been destroyed by it, but yet we all as nations still hold that while war is never right sometimes it is the only right answer to the question before us. We can gain strength that those who were once mortal enemies Britian and France, Britian the the US, Germany and everybody are now one and nearly undivided in all but reality of goverence. Others have decided that violence and war is the only answer, that life is cheap and without merit, so it is easy to part with. Until the day they come to the true understanding of their own beliefs our sword will have to remain out of its sheath ready and able to defend, while the holder prys for the day when it will be sheathed forever. And a just and lasting peace "amoung ourselves and all nations" will be achieved.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Greg Smith:

I'm not for a second saying that the US should talk to a fanatic like bin Laden or acquiesce to his stated aim of removing US troops from the middle east. But somewhere in the future the US will have to modify its policy towards the middle east and Palestine, if it wants atrocities such as those on Tuesday to cease.

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Ok wait and lets look at this, we were critising, often, Isreali actions concerning the palestinians we had begun to considered how to deal with Isreal using US arms in putting down the uprising, we were giving million of dollars of aid to them to help them to build the Gaza Strip and West bank. I am tired in hearing we have to change are attitude toward the Palestinians. In the end because we support the nation of Isreal and that it has a right to exist is the source of the problem as long as that remains there is no way to that we could satisfy all of the Palistinians.

[quote]Originally posted by C. Huth:
How can you do that if you don't even know Good and Evil yourselves?

Quote:

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Now that pisses me off, to suggest that I or anone elese civilized world does not know the difference between good and evil. Yes we are imperfect, we accept braodly that it is alright to kill in war, that is a sin which we as Christians and all faiths have delt and continue to deal with it but don't you dare to think of yourself as so rightous to say we don't know what good and evil are!


[This message has been edited by C. Huth (edited 09-16-2001).][/B]

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Quote:

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Originally posted by C. Huth:
I hope that this situation may end well, but I doubt it.
Again, I’m sorry. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/frown.gif (If you want me to delete my posts, I will)

[This message has been edited by C. Huth (edited 09-16-2001).][/B]

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While your comments might have angered some (I most certanly disagree your comments) if we begine to censure what is written or spoken, we go against what the USA is all about.

Most peoples feelings about this subject could best be summed up by this statemen.

Sure we are brothers and sisters. And like all brothers and sisters we fight among ourselves. But if anyone should pick on one of our brothers and sisters, GOD HELP THEM.

And as a side note, These policemen and firemen do not make enough money for this

Karg


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All these worlds are yours, except Europa, which is a wholy owned subsidary of weownthattoo, Inc. (TM)

[This message has been edited by Karg (edited 09-17-2001).]

This message has been removed on request by the
poster

Originally posted by the Styro:

'As an example we should nuke one city over there. Let them know that we can do this every time someone blows up a Pizza Shop in Israel. Make the death-toll so horribly high that they stop and say "Do we really want to see this happen again?"'

Styro, if you come round my house and kill my brother, no-one (well, no-one who believes in the death penalty) is going to argue if you fry for it. If I come round in vengeance and wipe out your entire family, all of whom were sat round watching TV the night the crime occurred, then I'm just as guilty as you are (more so). I don't deny justice needs to be done here, but if we're going to say that we are morally stronger than these terrorists, we can't sink to their level. A proportional response is going to be difficult, but I'll sleep a hell of a lot easier about it than if we vapourize a million innocent people in Baghdad (or wherever) just out of blind vengeance.

Northern Ireland showed that revenge attacks just create more angry people on the other side to become terrorists in future. And if you think nuking cities until they're too afraid of you to consider terrorism is going to work, I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken. If the fact that these people's countries have absolutely no chance against the States didn't put them off, this sort of thing won't either. You go this route, and you will have to commit genocide (and I mean the proper use of the word, which people seem to have forgotten here - genocide is not what happened to the US, but the total extinction of a culture), or these people will be back in 10, 15 or 20 years, even more pissed at the US and willing to die for their cause than ever before.

I want people dead for this attack. I want the ones who organized and carried it out dead. I want governments that shield them punished politically. But I don't want genocide. If we do that, we go against everything people have been celebrating the United States as a champion of.


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"Spatial anomalies, energy beings, telepathic echoes. You know, sometimes I really miss the Dominion War. At least then all we had to worry about was where the next polaron beam was coming from...": Capt.Hunter, USS Tempest

This message has been removed on request by the
poster