Chaplains in Starfleet?

May seem like nitpicking, but

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Originally posted by Jonathan Talbot:

I think with any show, it would be hard to give any religion any specific nod, unless that show was geared towards that religion. SHow's like Seventh Heaven, Touched by an Angel, Father Dowling Mysteries... are all prime examples of shows that have catered to the Catholic faith. WHile other shows like Charmed, Buffy and Angel have suported the Pagan faith.

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I think the word you wanted there was "Christian" and not "Catholic". Father Dowling was a Catholic, and I'm unsure about Touched By An Angel, but the folks on Seventh Heaven are not Catholics. They are the family of a minister. A brief web-seach failed to turn up the Reverend Camden's denomination, but I feel safe in saying it is a protestant faith.

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Reverends are Protestant "Priests" and Fathers are Catholic ones?

I could be mistaken.

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In the Praetors Name!

I don't recall the Enterprise crew sneering at Worf concerning his religion...

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Would YOU?

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"Aw c'mon, don't start with that Sto-vo-kor nonsen--"
THWACK!
'Urk....."
"....medic...."



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"You got your Star Trek Trek in my roleplaying game!"
"You got your roleplaying game in my Star Trek!"
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Originally posted by Phantom:
Correct me if I am wrong, but Reverends are Protestant "Priests" and Fathers are Catholic ones?

I could be mistaken.

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That is my understanding.
However, IIRC the term "Father" and "Priest" also applies to the clergy of the Orthodox faiths, such as Russian Othodox and Greek Orthodox, which split from the Catholic Church well before Protestantism. (Around 300 ad, IIRC).
And of course, "Priest" is used as a genaric term for clergy. As in "Vodoo Priest, Pagan Priest, Shinto Priest".
A big clue that he's non-catholic is that he's married and has children. While I've heard that marriage is not strictly forbidden for Catholic priests, it is strongly discouraged and counter to their teachings. (The clergyman who performed Hugh Hefner's wedding, IIRC, at least considers himself a Catholic Priest, and was married at the time he performed the ceremony. He said that his marriage did not terminate his Priesthood, but did mean he was never going to get promoted to Bishop.)

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You're a Starfleet Officer. "Weird" is part of the job.

Okay, so I was wrong about the ear the earring was on... but it still is connected to the pah, making it a religious symbol. To be frank, though, I don't see Starfleet as giving COs that kind of control over the curturalism of its members. They strive for equality, and that idea virtually smacks of allowing favoritsm.

Riker did allow her the earring, yes, but I don't see why it should have been disallowed in the first place. But, we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one.



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"You got your Star Trek Trek in my roleplaying game!"
"You got your roleplaying game in my Star Trek!"
LUGTrek, two great tastes that taste great together

I was using the "priest" as a member of the clergy. Just a lack of any other term.

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In the Praetors Name!

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Originally posted by Traska:
Okay, so I was wrong about the ear the earring was on... but it still is connected to the pah, making it a religious symbol. To be frank, though, I don't see Starfleet as giving COs that kind of control over the curturalism of its members. They strive for equality, and that idea virtually smacks of allowing favoritsm.

Riker did allow her the earring, yes, but I don't see why it should have been disallowed in the first place. But, we're probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Then why would Starfleet have uniforms at all? The whole point of uniforms is that everyone dresses according to a set of rules... uniforms actually aren't "uniform" each is different and you can tell various important facts about the wearer by looking a the uniform.

In any case, if Starfleet couldn't prevent members from wearing whatever they want, whenever they want, then why have uniforms in the first place? It may be policy that certain cultural items may be worn, or that commanders may give permission that certain items may be worn... but it would also be the case that that permission could be revoked or not given.

If a Starfleet officer has authority to order a servicemember to certain death, they certainly have permission to tell them they can't wear an earring on their ship. If an officer did that he might have to explain his order to his commander/ superior, but he wouldn't have to explain it to the servicemember in question.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

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Originally posted by Phantom:
Correct me if I am wrong, but Reverends are Protestant "Priests" and Fathers are Catholic ones?

I could be mistaken.

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Reverent is a Protestant term... but so is Priest, Pastor, Minister... the Protestant side of Christianity isn't nearly as uniform as the Catholic side.

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

Chello!

Doesn't it say in the STNG RPG that the captain has the authority to allow alterations to the SF uniform as long as those changes don't interfere wih the proprer running of the ship?

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Originally posted by Lord Kjeran:
Chello!

Doesn't it say in the STNG RPG that the captain has the authority to allow alterations to the SF uniform as long as those changes don't interfere wih the proprer running of the ship?

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I imagine that it does... which implies he doesn't HAVE to authorize it.

Didn't Worf quit wearing his sash during Jellico's tenure? And he put Troi in uniform as well...

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"I'd rather die standing than live on my knees..."
Shania Twain

Actually, good point about uniforms being just that. So let's get that sash off of Worf. Let's get that headwrap off of Nog. Either apply the rule uniformly or don't apply it is my point.

As for the RPG, I love LUGTrek, so don't read into this... but the game has to coincide with the TV show, after all. I'm sure if some episode had O'Brien doing the hokey pokey every time he activated the transporters, the rules would have to reflect that being a part of the transporter activation sequence. =)



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"You got your Star Trek Trek in my roleplaying game!"
"You got your roleplaying game in my Star Trek!"
LUGTrek, two great tastes that taste great together

After some consideration, I've decided that I am adding a Chaplain to my TOS-era NPC crew. Partly, because my players won't expect it and will most likely misinterpret my intentions (mwah-ha-HAH!), but partly because it seems, reasonable. Since the ship will be totally out of contact with ANY planet for very long periods of time, it seems reasonable for there to be a spiritual as well as psychological anchor on board.
I debated what sort of Chaplain to design, and finally came up with a "Mensaean Universalist" minister.

The Mensaean Universalist doctrine is that there is, in fact, definitive Truth to be found in the universe. That Truth is best discovered by studying the beliefs of other species, distilling each species' spectrum of beliefs down to a core "ur-truth" for that species, and then assembling these together to get an overview of "Universal Truth". The Mensaean Universalist acts sort of like a spiritual psychoanalist, asking the believer about his beliefs, slowly working to define and interpret those beliefs and ultimately, to find the Truth within them that transcends the specific names, doctrines, sacraments etc. associated with the faith.
To carry this off in-character, I've been working on some distilled "ur-truths" for the various Trek species. These are some of the ideas I'm kicking around:

VULCANS: It is possible to find Peace from the ravages of uncontrolled Passion by refining and developing Discipline. Discipline of the mind, body, and spirit produce clarity and clarity produces peace.

ANDORIANS: It is possible to structure a chaotic system through ritual and thereby bring chaos into Order. The Past must be dead. If the Past is not allowed to Die, then those living in the present will not have Free Will, but will instead be slaves to their histories. The Past must die, must be allowed to die, in order for the future to be born.

TELLARITES: Out of a bewildering plurality of doctrines, religions, beliefs and practices, a certain underlying theme emerges--The Universe is an imperfect system. Imperfect Systems can be Perfected. The Universe, therefore, can be Perfected by the actions of enlightened individuals. It is possible to make a better reality through direct, personal action!

MEDUSANS: The Universe creates Infinity out of the Finite by folding each dimension through the next higher dimension. The finite line becomes an infinite Circle when the ends are folded through a second dimension. That Circle is made infinite by twisting it through a third dimension into a Moebius Strip. The Sphere is extended by folding into a Klein Bottle, through the fourth dimension. This process continues until in its ultimate expression, the Finite reality of the Universe transcends itself, folding into Infinity.
(Medusans are weird. Damn Non-Euclidian Bastards!)

Some Species still require work.
TIBURONIAN belief seems to bog down on a core of "If it FEELS good, odds are it IS good!"

AXANARI: There is RIGHT and there is WRONG. The two ideals are like Matter and Anti-matter. They cannot co-exist in the same physical space without annihilating each other. If a Rightful Government does something Wrong, it will disintegrate. The individual cannot survive being both Right and Wrong. Such conflicted individuals will lose all ability for meaningful accomplishment.
(sigh. Well. They are making progress, albeit slowly..)

Wrestled with the "Human Truth" for a bit. A little weighty a topic for one GM to tackle, solely as character-chrome for an RPG, but I gave it my best shot.
My candidate for the ultimate truth behind the aggregate of human beliefs boils down to the Game Theory conclusion:
"In the long term, the individual benefits more from Altruistic Behavior than from Selfish Behavior. Altruism produces the best results for the most participants, for the least risk."

There it is! Thank you! Good night! Tell the Philosophers to turn off the lights on their way out!

There you go again! Doing my work for me! Pretty soon these guys won't be mine at all any more. Sheesh. Keep it up!

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Games. The Final Product. These are the books of the Star Trek RPG. Their five year license. To explore strange new roles. To breathe new life into get togethers. To boldly play what no fan has played before!

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Originally posted by spyone:
...the term[s] "father" and "priest" also apply to the clergy of the Orthodox faiths, such as Russian Othodox and Greek Orthodox, which split from the Catholic Church well before Protestantism. (Around A.D. 300...).

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Actually, it was A.D. 1056, if I'm not mistaken.

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While I've heard that marriage is not strictly forbidden for Catholic priests, it is strongly discouraged and counter to their teachings.

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Actually, it was one of the causes of the abovementioned split with the Byzantine church--called in theological jargon a schism. Marriage, by the way, is forbidden for Roman Catholic priests--now. That doesn't stop all of them, obviously... and, of course, a dispensation can be obtained for just about anything. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

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The clergyman who performed Hugh Hefner's wedding... at least considers himself a Catholic priest, and was married at the time he performed the ceremony. He said that his marriage did not terminate his priesthood, but did mean he was never going to get promoted to bishop.

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The term is sacerdos en aeternum (loosely, "Thou art a priest forever"). No mortal being has the authority to rescind the power God puts upon a priest to act in the stead of His Son, Jesus Christ. They can be forbidden to exercise those functions, but the power remains within them. Hefner's priest is being a bad boy, but the marriage is a valid one--whether or not the Church particularly likes it. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/eek.gif

Actually, LCM, I am a Roman Catholic and the rector of our Church is married. He was an episcopalian priest who left said church after having theological differences. HE was accepted into the Catholic faith as a full priest.

Canon law does allow priest to marry. the current convention of practice does not. "Holy orders are am impediment to marriage, but marriage is not an impediment to holy orders." In other words, if a man is a priest, under canon law he can never marry, but a married man can still become a priest (although there are only 8 married priests in the US that I know of and they are all former Episcopals).

There are Churches in Communion with the Holy See that allow marriage for priest (following the above guideline)--the Byzantine Catholics, the Rumanian Catholics, the Ukranian Catholics, etc. They are under the umbrella of the Holy See and subservient to the Holy Father. However they follow the Eastern rites (ie, Orthodox).

As to the Schism of 1056, it occurred because of a difference in belief over the Primacy of the Pope as the greatest of the Patriarchs. No more, no less. As my medieval history prof stated, there were other issues, but they were ancillary.

BTW, how did my thread get so far off topic?
http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/biggrin.gif



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"We are Klingons!"

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