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Here is another interesting concept you might want to explore in your 4th Age campaign.
Were-worms
Check this reference page in the Encyclopedia of Arda:
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/w/wereworms.html
Since you are having some "bad guys" coming in from the East anyway, one of them could be just such a were-worm. As the article says, Tolkien only ever mentioned them once, and you are therefore pretty much free to detail them as you see fit! :)
In "Tolkienite" circles Michael Martinez has got a bit of a mixed reputation. He does write some really good, thought provoking things, but at other times you wonder what he was thinking. This is one of them (for me, at least).Quote:
Originally posted by AslanC
Thanks Chris.
I bring in Durin VII based on a Michael Martinez article that started this whole affair for me.
You see, the passages he's referring to in The Peoples of Middle Earth (which indicate that Durin VII is Thorin III's son) are from early drafts of Appendix A. The geneology chart for the lords of the house of Durin was amended before publication with a dotted line between Thorin III and Durin VII, suggesting the span of some generations rather than direct primogeniture.
It's kind of like saying that Aragorn is a hobbit, because in the early drafts of the Lord of the Rings he was a Hobbit named Trotter.:D
OK, so it's not really that bad, but you can see my point hopefully. Not that you need to change your game or anything just because I've got a problem with your history; I'm not in your game, after all, and you don't have to listen to me complain about it every week.:p
Just a little FYI.
-Chris Landmark
Cool I can see that, but as I have stated I won't let Tolkienisim stop me :) I respect what the man wrote, but I've got a game to run ;)Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Landmark
In "Tolkienite" circles Michael Martinez has got a bit of a mixed reputation. He does write some really good, thought provoking things, but at other times you wonder what he was thinking. This is one of them (for me, at least).
LOL! Noted and filed away :)Quote:
OK, so it's not really that bad, but you can see my point hopefully. Not that you need to change your game or anything just because I've got a problem with your history; I'm not in your game, after all, and you don't have to listen to me complain about it every week.:p
Since this came up in another thread and I am trying to cull all my threads together here :)
From the Encyclopedia of Arda
"These were the Mearas, noble horses that lived as long as a Man, and had extraordinary strength and intelligence. Throughout their history, they would only allow themselves to be ridden by the Lord of the Mark or his sons. This long tradition was broken by Gandalf, who managed to train the greatest of the Mearas of his time, Shadowfax, and rode that mighty horse throughout the War of the Ring."
So given that Mearas only let the Lord of the Mark or his sons ride, how can I explain the fact that Erynae has one (amed Ashwind, that once was the steed of Prince Alfien)?
Well I think that this is one of those Gandalf cases. The horses simply chose to let her ride him. Maybe it recognizes in her that she will someday change the way the Shieldmaidens of Rohan are viewed, or that she may someday become the first Queen of Rohan.
It is just one of those things :)
Neat idea.Quote:
Originally posted by Camdin
Here is another interesting concept you might want to explore in your 4th Age campaign.
Were-worms
Not sure how I would use it, except for maybe a race of Dragon Lords like the Melnibonians or some such...
Hmmm... an island of Dragon Lords... now that has potential :)
So we had our first session back on Friday night, and since we had to rebuild the characters from the ground up, we didn't get much time to play.
That said it was fun.
They made it through the Gap of Rohan with no troubles and then headed up the South Road towards Tharbad.
They got ambused in the rain one night by a scout party of Orcs bearing a red skull symbol.
They managed to deafeat them (with minor injuries taken by the group) and then mad for Tharbad. It didn't take Barahir (the ranger) long to notice the tracks of the Orc war party that had sent the scouts. When Andunae (the elf) rode up from her rear guard position, she confirmed the Orcs were on their tail.
Barahir, realising that they couldn't make Tharbad in time, suggested they ride off the road to the Dunland Pass, a gap in the mountains that they could defend.
Ilian (the Knight of Dol Amroth) and Gror (the dwarf) hung back to be a rear surprise once the orcs hit the pass and the others, under the guidence of Arendan (the Captain of Arnor) they managed to block the pass with brush and then waited.
The war party arrived... nearly 100 orcs (1 hit villains) strong with 10 Uruks (3 hit) calling the shots.
The fight was brutal, though without Barahir and Andunae laying down as much bowfire as they could at range, it might not have gone as well.
Illian and Gror did plenty of damage from the rear and Erynae's (the Shield maiden of Rohan) armour's special ability triggered (Display of Power).
As the morning light broke they road hard for tharabad to rest before continuing to Rivendell.
So now they are in Tharbad. I need to know everything anyone can tell me about the place. The Encyclopedia of Arda is scanty on the details and the MERP info is way too D&D (a Thieves Quarter no less).
Any ideas?
The session sounds like it was fun, Aslan...it makes me wish my own LotR game hadn't folded... :(
Anyway, as far as Tharbad is concerned, it only came into play for my group back in the old MERP days, but we used it as a trade center, which seemed to fit, given its location. Rustic, yet very mercantile=oriented, it was home to mostly Middle Men and Dunedain, with a few members of the other races (a couple Dwarves ran the local smithy, if I remember correctly).
Our game took place before Aragorn ascended to the throne at the end of the Third Age, so at that point Tharbad was just getting rebuilt (if I remember correctly, there was a rather famous stone bridge that crossed a river there, which, in our campaign Dwarves and Men rebuilt together, to help forge a stronger friendship). In a Fourth Age campaign, it could fall under the auspices of Arnor, maybe serving as a frontier trading community, or as a border town between the Northern and Southern Kingdoms (sort of a middle ground, perhaps). Or, maybe it remains independent, under the protection of the Reunited Kingdom, but ruled by its own officials.
One of the things that I like about Tharbad is that, between its relatively good location for stories and adventures, and the lack of written detail about it, it makes a great spot to use in campaigns. Given that, it really depends on what direction you want to take Tharbad. If it's just a one-stop for the PC's, and they won't be there much (or for long), then there's not much to do with it. If they'll be using it often, and stopping in frequently, I'm sure that the members of the board would be willing to help you flesh out Tharbad to make it suitably useable (at least, I wouldn't mind helping out here and there).
In any event, good luck with the campaign. Sounds like it'll be fun! :)
Greg
The city was flooded and destroyed in the year 2911 of the Third Age. Depending on how far into the Fourth Age you are playing, Tharbad could be just a small growing village, a larger community just starting to rebuild stone buildings, or -- if you are playing hundreds or more years into the age -- a large, thriving city as it was in its glory days.
In short, Tharbad is pretty much yours to make up! :)
Thanks for the info guys :)
I had read in the MERP stuff that it was a port city, some 250 miles from the sea. Now living on the St Lawrence river I have no doubt such things are very very possible. But that said is the Greyflood deep enough you suppose for that type of city?
Perhaps for flat-bottmed river barges and longboat-style sea craft as used by the Vikings.Quote:
Originally posted by AslanC
But that said is the Greyflood deep enough you suppose for that type of city?
Than again, in the lack of any further geological details provided by "The Professor," you can have it be deep as you want! :)
I have decided to add another element to my game which will be that when they reach Rivendell they will meet a noble man from Far Harad, a Prince in fact. Later in the game it will be his sister who they (the Morgothians) will try to marry to young King Daerion in return for control (through the family of the Princess) of Umbar.
Now the Prince they meet will be one of two sons not seduced by the Cult and who has come North to seek out Rivendell for advice.
This has lead to me having to come up with Haradrim names. This leaves much to be desired in the Tolkien work, since there isn't much source material (aside from the MERP stuff).
So working with actual Arabic here are some of the words and names I have come up with in Haradrim...
Anahara - Flower of the desert
Farahyam - Happiness of the sea
Anasakir –Hawk of the desert
Ana’asad –Lion of the desert
Ananisir –Eagle of the desert
Emira –Princess
Emir –Prince
Elakeh - Queen
Elasha –King
Ibin –Son of
Bina –Daughter of
Elzarkra –The Grey One
Zafajhir – The fast dawn, Sudden daybreak
Elakabish – Queen of the spiders.
So the Prince they meet will be; Emir Ana'asad ibin Anasakir - Or; Prince Ana'asad son of Anasakir
His brother will be; Emir Ananisir ibin Anasakir - Or; Prince Ananisir son of Anasakir
The sister will be; Emira Anahara bina Farahyam - Or; Princess Anahara daughter of Farahyam
Why has this Prince come to the North and specifically Rivendell? The idea is that his father was struck dead by his brother Anaisir and his mother Farahyam, who are both part of the Morgothian Cult (in the South it is Spider motifed). Seeking for knowledge on this topic, Ana'asad ride into the desert and there he was tormented by Effrit who showed him vision of Elzarkra (Gandalf) and how he had come centuries before and told the Elasha of that time that council against the Enemy awaited them in Rivendell (Called Wadi'isnajim = Valley of the star).
Also this is where Shelob/Morlob has been sent, transformed into a pale human female, to create the cult and turn the south back to serving darkness. There she is known only as Elakabish – Queen of the spiders.
This is all I have right now, aside from his fine Haradric charger (horse) is the rival of any horse of Rohan (though much smaller by a long shot) and is called Zafajhir – The fast dawn, Sudden daybreak.
Any thoughts? :)
How about this then. Tharbad serves as the last place where deep keel ships can arrive, the bridge denying anything but flat bottomed barges the northern parts of the greyflood.Quote:
Originally posted by Camdin
Perhaps for flat-bottmed river barges and longboat-style sea craft as used by the Vikings.
Than again, in the lack of any further geological details provided by "The Professor," you can have it be deep as you want! :)
That way, since there is no city at the mouth of the Greyflood, it would make sense that Tharbad is the port city :)
In my chronicle the characters will go to Tharbad as well. I like the way MERP portayed in Thieves of Tharbad (with the canals and such) so I adapted Tharbad to be more like Venice (with all the intrigue associated with it).
My chronicle is set around TA 2907, a couple of years before Tharbad is destroyed by the Great Flood of 2912 TA. I picture it as a city full of corruption and decay, where a small elite group of rich nobles and merchants feasts everyday on carnavalesque balls while the masses fight among each other for food.
Isn't it said somewhere that the Numenoreans used Tharbad as a haven, or port? That way sea-going vessels are able to dock there.
On the other hand, Earnur's fleet docked at Mithlond...
Tharbad looks about just as far away from Fornost as Mithlond does... and Tharbad seems to be closer to Gondor as well.Quote:
Originally posted by Meneltin
Isn't it said somewhere that the Numenoreans used Tharbad as a haven, or port? That way sea-going vessels are able to dock there.
On the other hand, Earnur's fleet docked at Mithlond...
However, I believe that in the appendix it specifically states that the ships in the fleet were impressively huge and of "great drought"... and I think drought means how deep in the water it goes?
So I'm not whether they could enter the Greyflood to reach Tharbad, though possibly smaller ships could. If Tharbad was a Numenorean port in the first place.
It's definitely an interesting idea. It'd also seem relatively safe from Corsairs, as the Greyflood is pretty long, and if enemies entered the river then alarm (sent by horse to Tharbad) would be allowed a sizable amount of time to be spread.
So it is decided that Tharbad is the point in the river where the keels cannot pass, for the level is no longer deep enough :)
As to my attempt at Haradric, I assume by the complete lack of reply that everyone thinks it was great? ;)