Alternate Die Resolution

I've searched the forum for any suggestions in regard to 'fixing' the die rolling mechanics of the ICON system for LUG's Star Trek but have been unable to find any. One idea that's popped into my mind is using a single d6, plus a drama die, and adding the relevant skill level to the d6 roll to determine the character's success i.e. X Character has Skill 4 and rolls a 3 on the die to give a total of 7. THis would be instead of rolling 4d6 to determine the result. Obviously this would also mean increasing the difficulty target numbers (probably by 2 or 3) to take account for the higher results obtained by using this method.

This has NOT been playtested but was wondering what your thoughts might be!?

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Originally Posted by Silverback

THis would be instead of rolling 4d6 to determine the result.

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My last game using LUG Trek rules has been a while, but do you really role 4d6 to resolve a test?! Got to dig out one of my old rulebooks to check it out.

I don't quite get, what you mean. Usually you roll Attribute dice and add the skill value anyway, so I don't quite see the change.

Example: A character with Coordination 3 and Energy Weapons: Phaser 2/ 4 would roll 3 dice for Coordination, take the hightest result and add the +4 on the roll in case she fires a phaser.
Usually Edges like Dexterity and Reaction add dice if appropriate but we have a house rule that it adds a point like a skill, if the player chooses - which makes attribute tests easier.
But besides that I don't think the dice-system needs any fixing.

Yeah, what's the change?

I mean if you got a controlling attribute of 2 you roll 2d6, one of which is the wild die.

Take the single highest number, and add it to skill. If the wild roills a 6 take both numbers rolled and add together, then add to skill.

And I agree, the system isn't broken, in my opinion, it's easy to use, and doesn't require any extra charts like, say, masterbook (anything) to figure the modifier, based on the roll.

I think it pretty much reflects Star Trek, the whole way the rules are set up, and skill-based, to boot. I love it.

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THis would be instead of rolling 4d6 to determine the result

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Where are you getting 4d6 from?

If the attribute is 4, you roll all 4 dice, and take only the highest single number, and add to skill. Dropping it down to 2 dice rolled is reducing your chances of rolling higher numbers on the other dice that would now be missing.

I mean, that's why people put points into making their attributes level 4, instead of the average level 2.

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Usually Edges like Dexterity and Reaction add dice if appropriate but we have a house rule that it adds a point like a skill

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I have long considered doing this, too, giving the PC not only the attribute dice, but an extra pip of add, on top.

The TOS rule book hints that it might have originally been intended that way (and perhaps was latyer changed), if you read between the lines in some paragraphs.

I have still not implemented it though. I might, down the road. It makes sense to me.

Sorry guys, dunno what I was thinking with my first post! :confused:

What I meant to say was that instead of rolling multiple dice and taking the highest roll, etc. and so forth why not use a single die roll. Something along the following lines:

d6 + [(Attribute-1) + Edge + Skill + Advantage + Disadvantage] = Test result total

With this option you can choose to scrap the Drama Die altogether OR, as an alternative, limit the total bonuses added to the d6 roll to a maximum of 6 and keep the Drama Die roll as part of the process.

The idea behind the above mechanic is to try and eliminate some of the 'problems' with the resolution mechanics of the ICON system.

Hopefully I've made sense this time! :D

Scrap the drama die??! Lords, what heresy. lol.

I don't see any "problem" with resolution as it is.

If there was no drama die, half of the people I have as PCs would never be able to make the skill checks I set for them. And they like rolling the pile, looking for that "6", even if not on the drama die.

What "problem" do you see?

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Originally Posted by Silverback

... limit the total bonuses added to the d6 roll to a maximum of 6

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Why would you want to do this?

Seems like you have issues with the system itself, what might they be?

Things like the possibility of Deanna Troi out arm wrestling Data. You know the oddball results, etc. I was just thinking of a way to 'better' represent the different skill/attribute 'levels' between characters and the obvious way seemd to be using the bonuses and penalties as adjustments to the die roll rather than adding to the total number of die rolled.

One of the design concepts of the ICON system was to make skill more important than raw attributes. By changing the system you wind up making attributes almost eqivalanet to skill levels. Since attributes are used for multiple skill rolls, it makes attributes much more important than skill levels.


If you want an alternate method if die resolution, I'd suggest looking at the Sillouette system. The die resolution system is fairly similar to ICON, except that if the highest die total is tied (for example, rolling 2 sizes or even 4 fives) yu add 1 to the final result for each addtional die that tied. For instance, rolling two sizes gives a total of 7, and rolling four fives would be an 8.

It is a fairly easy system to incoporate into ICON and makes higher attributes a bit more useful t=han in ICON without making attributes as good as skills. Of course the difficulty scale would need to be tweaked a little.

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Originally Posted by LUGTrekGM

Why would you want to do this?

Seems like you have issues with the system itself, what might they be?

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I have no real 'issues' with the system. I just feel that the die resolution mechanism is a little 'clunky' and can mean that less experienced characters could potentially outperform the best Federation personnel on a regular basis.

The die rolling idea I thought about was purely about representing the difference between these characters in a more 'defined' manner. It will still allow less experienced characters to outperform those with greater experience but much less often.

But hey, after all it's just an idea! :D

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I have no real 'issues' with the system. I just feel that the die resolution mechanism is a little 'clunky' and can mean that less experienced characters could potentially outperform the best Federation personnel on a regular basis.

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How do you see this as happening? On a lucky roll?

I mean if a character has a skill of 1, and rolls say attributes of 2, they can max out with a skill of 13.

If they have a skill of 5 or 6, (ie.e the most highly skilled) they can max out with a skill of 17 or 18.

Of course this is not including advantages, and courage points...

If a low-skilled person tries to do a task with diff 17 or so, and miss it badly they will (optionally) get a critical fumble, where someone with more skill will just fail

Can you give some specific examples of this Troi v. Data, or other examples, please?

maybe it is a difference in our perceptions of what the rules are trying to do, vs how we each implement them.

I'll find the relevant sheets, and look up the specifics of skill, in the meantime.

It could purely be my misperception of the resolution system as it's still relatively new to me as a game.

Things like the possibility of Deanna Troi out arm wrestling Data. You know the oddball results, etc.

This isn't a problem with the die-rolling conventions, it's a problem with the GM. Data is a machine who can lock his joints, rendering it moot - it's a "you can't possibly succeed, dont' even roll" situation. Deanna out-arm wrestling Worf on the other tentacle, can be explained by it being a fluke, or her reading his "tell," or psyching him out.

I've never had a problem with the die-rolling conventions in ICON. This strikes me as an over-complicated "resolution" to a non-existant "problem."