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I'm sick of the drive-by insults on the United States by the Euros in our company. Since there's nothing new, game-wise, and we can no longer respond to the insults before someone's shut down the thread, there's no reason to be here.
Enjoy your 'enlightened' bigotry.
Well, I hate to see you go, qerlin, but I don't think leaving is the answer. It just fuels these morons into thinking they can browbeat us into submission.
Besides, what do they know? They're likely jealous of our success and strength, and they lack the sophistication and respect for others to keep their slings and arrows in their pockets. Either way, they're not worth the effort it takes to get upset at them.
Just put the offending idiots on ignore, and continue to contribute your excellent insight to those of us on the boards who appreciate your value.
For what it's worth, qerlin, I agree with Sea Tyger on this one. Don't let an obviously uninformed opinion that is formed by taking one specific point and turning it into a generality drive you away...Quote:
Originally posted by Sea Tyger
Well, I hate to see you go, qerlin, but I don't think leaving is the answer. It just fuels these morons into thinking they can browbeat us into submission.
Besides, what do they know? They're likely jealous of our success and strength, and they lack the sophistication and respect for others to keep their slings and arrows in their pockets. Either way, they're not worth the effort it takes to get upset at them.
Just put the offending idiots on ignore, and continue to contribute your excellent insight to those of us on the boards who appreciate your value.
Don't do it, Qerlin! If you leave, the liberals win! :eek:
Seriously, you'd be missed. OTOH, if coming here is more aggravation than rewarding, maybe you should take a break and see if things are different later.
It's always nice to learn that a handful of people making broad, rude and inaccurate statements about the USA is enough to consider every "Euro" on this forum an insulting bigot... :(
I haven't seen any bigotry on this messageboard.. its fairly clean here. Unless i missed out.
Dang, I'm as softy liberal as the next guy on the left but I value your opinions and insights, qerlin! Don't go buddy!
The Trek community will come around and there will be a lot more gaming and Trek (and political, eventually) conversations around here. I have forseen this *hoo-pah, hoo-pah* (Whoops, wrong sci-fi franchise. ;))
Just ignore the cheap shot artists. There are plenty of European folks on these boards who don't engage in childish behaviour, just as there are many Americans who don't.
If all the valued members of this community were to leave--you being one of them qerlin, both a long-time member and a knowleageable poster--all we'll be left with are the insulting, ignorant twerps!
Don't go!
LQ
P.S. *Queeg notices he's only a "participating member" of the boards not a valued member or verbose member yet! ;)*
I had the same thought, but I'm guessing that wasn't Qerlin's intention.Quote:
Originally posted by C5
It's always nice to learn that a handful of people making broad, rude and inaccurate statements about the USA is enough to consider every "Euro" on this forum an insulting bigot... :(
Anyway, while I don't always agree with you Qerlin, your posts are always interesting, and I'd hate to see you go like this. But ultimately it's your choice.
BTW, if this is down to the thread I think it is, then I'd suggest you might want to ignore theose sort of rantings. I don't agree with everything the US does, but the post I saw was WAY out of line. Not to mention flawed and inaccurate. Hell, I'm as liberal as they come, and even I would have taken issue with the poster.
Well, I hope we're going to see enough editorial consistency to get this "enlightened bigot" thread shut down too. Otherwise, I'll show myself the door.
If you feel there is a personal attack on the thread (a serious violation of this board's CoC), I recommend you report it to the moderator or Don Mappin.
Otherwise, make use of the Ignore User list.
IMO, if this is the thread I think, Don dealt with it properly. While I can understand Qerlin's anger, I think Don was right to close it down. And while I'm presuming it wasn't his intention, being one of those liberal euros, I do find this thread mildly insulting myself.
I have to agree with Space_Cadet here, ?Am I missing something :confused: ?Quote:
Originally posted by Space_Cadet
I haven't seen any bigotry on this messageboard.. its fairly clean here. Unless i missed out.
Sundowner :confused:
Uhm, have I missed something?
I have no idea what this stems from but I am the last person to begrudge someone leaving this place (lords knows I said I was doing it at least twice).
Take it easy Qerlin. See you when we see you.
I have to agree with Sea Tyger. I come here for what I like about the place, and ignore the rest. And, to agree with C5, not all the Euro's here are America bashing. Most aren't actually, even if they disagree with some of America's actions, they aren't rude, or negative about it.
Message to the moderator:
I feel THIS thread is somewhat insulting. I am a European, (well, a Brit, and more importantly English! :D) and find the phrase 'enlightened bigot' to be way out of order. Can we have some kind of internal consistency and have THIS thread closed ASAP? International politics and debate on human rights have no place on this board, IMHO.
Many thanks
Tas
Sorry to see you go, qerlin. I don't think you have ever espoused a "my country, right or wrong" viewpoint and that is refreshing in this time of increasingly polar politics in our nation.
I personally feel the Europeans on these boards are entitled to their opinions for and against the United States (as, indeed, are the North and South Americans, Middle Easterners, Oceanians, Africans, Asians, etc.), but then I am ultimately a free speech advocate.
Don has stepped in, the offender was a newbie whose ignorance of the rules is semi-forgivable. He has been given a warning, and unless you think that is not sufficient, I think you need to let it go. If leaving is the only way you can do that, then your choice is for the best.
I personally think the registration process for this site should be amended to include an explicit statement that political opinions need be left at the door. We can avoid further incidents involving newcomers that way.
I haven't seen really sniding anti-US remarks made by European members on these boards, though I never peruse the threads thoroughly. I wouldn't readily associate opposition for the war in Iraq with anti-US feelings. It was reported that a lot of generals in the US armed forces were actually against intervention in Iraq, and I don't think that those military officials are anti-US (!). Now when you have people actually taking delight in the US' woes over there (and let's face it the situation is not rosy) now that's a completely different matter- that I would call anti-Americanism and to the best of my knowledge I don't think I've seen this here.
What I mean is that sometimes you have to stick in and make your own way. Not everybody loves me around here, yet I'm still around :D
I'd say that since the political ban, there have been relatively few anti-U.S. remarks.
So you are evidently basing this decision on one thread, containing two inflammatory posts from a guy with (as of this posting) less than ten total posts?
You gotta do what you gotta do -- but for my money, you're overreacting.
Ohhh - what I miss?
I'm not European btw - I'm British.
:D
(And JonA feebly attempts to distance himself from anti-American sentiment for fear of receiving a verbal vitriolic assault).
Search for a locked thread by 'Braidsmomma', entitled 'It left a bad taste.'Quote:
Originally posted by JonA Ohhh - what I miss?
I found the above, thanks.Quote:
Originally posted by Fesarius
Search for a locked thread by 'Braidsmomma', entitled 'It left a bad taste.'
querlin, i have to agree his remarks could have been phrased a lot better, but if you're going to judge a variety of countries & people by one person & leave, you are overreacting a little. Unless i've missed many other threads of this type :confused:
BTW, i have to agree with JonA, i'm english, not a euro. :D
Sundowner :cool:
Look, I usually stay clear of threads that have anything to do with the 'Real world' - I get plenty of that the rest of the time.
I dunno what people have said to you, Qerlin, but I've valued your input in the various RPG threads on this board. Please don't go!
As to the cause of this, personally I am a Brit who beleives in Europe but also has a lot of respect for the US. We've all got our problems, and our different views, but we share lots of stuff too.
And certainly none of it due to geography. People have 'left' or 'right' views on both sides of the pond.
If you feel that there isn't anything to say on the RPG side of the board (Understandable given the support from Decipher), then that's cool - and I hope to hear from you again some day.
Mark
Dammit, qerlin, YOU CAN'T LEAVE!
Don't abandon me to the hippies!:D
While your anger at the nimrod who posted the thread you're mad about is justified, and while the inability to respond properly before the thread is locked IS frustrating, the truth is that the vast majority of the Europeans on here are at least moderately civilized, ;) and all but the really daft (and obvious newbies) have avoided overt political commentary.
Let it slide, man. We'll get even with the snide ones when they're all eating at McDonalds' and shopping at Wal-Mart.
:p
Quote:
Originally posted by Fesarius
Search for a locked thread by 'Braidsmomma', entitled 'It left a bad taste.'
Hmm.
Having read the thread, and the initial post of the thread, it seems to me that we've found a troll. This individual was, in all likelihood posting this thread to piss people off and invite a nasty argument, while claiming some sort of innocence. These sorts of individuals are a toxin to message boards in general. Pisses me off when I encounter them and the mods don't immediately crack down on them.
Of course, mods are busy and it's understandably tough to be on patrol constantly.
I used to hang out on the st.com boards a while back. I left because we started seeing more and more political trolls who would, out of the blue make some inflammatory observation designed to insult. The mod over there let it get out of hand, and as a result, I think the boards were severely injured. of course, she was just one person, but she repeatedly ignored or downplayed many legitimate complaints made on this subject. Now, I wouldn't post on the st.com messages boards to save my life...'tis a silly place...
I realize there's not a single easy solution that can be universally implemented. But the trolls are out there, and they're hungry bastards.
About this thread:
Qerlin's exercising his right to leave, and is possibly already gone. I'd probably do the same, and the post that set him off pisses me off too. Now, there are a bunch of euros and others who were insulted by Qerlin's angry passing remark. Okay. Now we're all either pissed or confused...or pissed and confused. We can sit around being pissed at each other, or we can take some action to deal with the person who really started this, that being braids-whatever.
My suggestion? Ignore the poster. When he posts something, anything, ignore him. Put him on "ignore" for your PMs. Let his threads die without any comment or response. Essentially, put him in a white soundproofed room, with no windows, and a door that swings both bloody ways.
I don't mind discussions, even heated ones, as long as there is something to be learned, or some entertainment to be had by all. But trolling pisses me off. If it pisses any of you guys off too, think about my above suggestion and act on it.
Strictly Speaking
I've been lurking for some time, but have never bothered to post.
I'm a member of qerlin's group here in Albuquerque and we were discussing the boards while riding yesterday. After finding the post in question, I can understand his ire. That said, I think he overreacted -- mostly due to the loss of several friends in the war, which have ratcheted up his stress level lately.
In introduction: I am a recent emigree from Scotland, having settled in New Mexico; qerlin's my cousin and is most definitely NOT a 'my country: love itor leave it' type. He's a bloody fine GM, too, I should say (just in case he should have a shufty at the boards.)
(Looks around...) What, am I the only mod on this week or something? :) I tell ya, I can't take a day off around here. (Did anyone report the thread?)
Yes, the original thread was closed. If you'd like to respond to the poster, try a PM or an e-mail. For what it's worth, he apologized privately for his remarks. Unfortunately I can't force him to apologize publicly.
As for the euro remark, that's certainly uncalled for: we have many international visitors and I feel it's a great disservice to lump them with one ill-stated opinion by a singular poster. (Or is there a rash of America-bashing going on that I've missed?)
Certainly our international friends deserve the same kind of respect that we ourselves would like to be treated with.
Since this thread hasn't gotten out of control and cooler heads have prevailed, I'll leave it open for now; hopefully for an apology.
Y'know, the tightass security chief from our now-defunct Artemis campaign said the exact same thing once... except he was referring to the Centaurans! :DQuote:
Originally posted by First of Two
Don't abandon me to the hippies!:D
Looking at the thread in question I can say I can't agree with the posters mentality but I can sort of see where he was coming from. I just think he expressed it in a deflammatory and insulting manner. Also I can see he argument was deeply deeply flawed and it was an argument I can appreciate and can't agree with.
Basically I have a bit of a problem in the THROWAWAY line that stated the Constitution of the Federation was similar to that of the Constitution of the USA. But I skimmed past it because it wasn't important and it was added just to obtain a frame of reference for anyone reading the said passage.
But as for Querlin leaving over it, thats his choice.
However his comments regarding non-Americans based upon the flawed mentality of one person I find a little offensive. If there was a sizeable group of people on this forum who had expressed that same sentiment then I could understand his outburst. As it stands, he's used one individual to base a criticism of other people who happen to come from the same area of the world and I would say this is quite an appalling outlook and dare I say a little childish.
But I've got thick skin (I have to, I'm friends with Liz not Beth ;)) so I can appreciate why some people would be upset by the offending thread and therefore I can see Querlin's reaction as predictable.
"Pisses me off when I encounter them and the mods don't immediately crack down on them."
I take it you're speaking generally and not specifically about this instance... The thread was locked down one hour and 45 minutes after the initial post - given that this Board is run by volunteer mods (even Don, really - this isn't his job, it's his hobby), that's pretty "immediate." Nobody can be on-line 24/7.
*sigh* I can see why Don spiked the thread. sorry to see you go querlin
Owen, please do not quote me out of context.Quote:
Originally posted by Owen E Oulton
"Pisses me off when I encounter them and the mods don't immediately crack down on them."
I take it you're speaking generally and not specifically about this instance... The thread was locked down one hour and 45 minutes after the initial post - given that this Board is run by volunteer mods (even Don, really - this isn't his job, it's his hobby), that's pretty "immediate." Nobody can be on-line 24/7.
IN context, I was talking about trolls whose only purpose is to instigate and attack. I also go on to grant the fact that A: the mods can't keep a 24/7 eye on these chaps, and B: there is not a universal end-all solution to this problem. But granting the mods are limited in their ability (and justified in their reluctance) to quell another person's right to speak their mind, even if it is for trolling, I suggest an option that we, as a community, can use to diminish the effect of trolls in general, and of this guy in particular.
Don has since said that the guy in question apologized, privately, but Don has no power to force the guy to apologize publicly. I have no problem with that statement, or with Don's (or any mod's) limits in this sort of thing. Again, that's why I suggest that we do not sit idly by in this matter. I'll state it again, just for the record: when we see an trolling post, or when we encounter a regular troller, ignore him. Refuse to respond to him, no matter how much his posts insult or enrage. Refuse to respond to any of his posts. Maybe he'll get the message.
I come to this board to learn, to listen and to laugh. When I can, I try to share what little I've learned. I don't come here to insult a person or their country or their ideals, even in a back-handed manner. Most of the people I've encountered here do not seem to wish to be insulted either.
My point here is not to insult the mods, or insult you. I was pissed off, and I said so. And I also said why. I didn't insult anyone. Additionally, rather than simply be negative, I offered a possible solution that we all can do.
If only part of my statement is read, and the rest ignored, I refuse to be called to account for it, since I've stated what I meant to be read.
Strictly Speaking
I leave for a few weeks and Qerlin goes...:eek:
Dammit you can't leave. Your contribution to a multitude of threads was always helpful.
Just ignore the nonsensical comments.