Third X-Men In Works

Third X-Men In Works
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-m.../26/13.00.film


I look forward to X-Men 3 which will likely deal w/ the Dark Phoenix saga. I thought the first 2 movies were good and an interesting adaptation of the comic books. Quite necessarily the movies are different from the comics.

I wonder how they'll treat the Dark Phoenix saga & how much they might retain from the original story. If you've never read the original story I recommend you find one of the X-Men paperback reprints. It's an exciting saga.

Hoo-boy!

As long as they have the scene where she flies into the star and drains it, i'll be really happy.:cool:

I don't know if that would gell with the mainstream, because the story direction will now have to go intergalactic (possibly introducing the Skrull and Kree War) and away from the main theme that made X-Men so popular: Discrimination.

Will a comic-book translation do well in the box office? Only if the majority of the mainstream are X-Men comic book fans. But then they would not be called mainstream, but genre fans (like me).

For Bryan Singer, he better tread lightly. Personally, I'd like to see Dark Phoenix, but he has to keep the screenplay story down-to-Earth, or at least within our solar system.

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For Bryan Singer, he better tread lightly. Personally, I'd like to see Dark Phoenix, but he has to keep the screenplay story down-to-Earth, or at least within our solar system.

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Definately.

I see a lot of potential in the Phoenix Saga - they could deal with a lot of cool issues in the movie.

There are plenty of ways to show the Pheonix's power without going galactic - and I think that we'll see more of an ideological rather astronomical spin to the whole saga.

I mean, there are some really cool ideas to explore. The idea that a friend of the X-men has become like a stranger to them; one who is slowly slipping into the dark temptation that ultimate power brings.

I agree with REG that the strength of the X-men movies is that they have been down-to-earth. Going uber-epic with this installment would shatter the symmetry which he has built with the other two movies...

From this little tidbit, it's hard to conclude that the story will deal with the Dark Phoenix saga. That said, it seems a likely direction in which to go:

Using the Sentinels (giant mutant hunting robots run by the government) would be a little too much like the plot of X-Men 2. Also, Jean Grey's apparent death (and the image in the water) near the end of X-Men 2 set the stage.

Remember that many of the events that led up to Dark Phoenix took place right here on Earth. It was the Hellfire Club who opened that door. It seems extremely unlikely that they would leave her "evil" at the end of the film unless they wanted to write off the character. That would be a lot of story to jam into one film.

How popular a character is Jean Grey, as portrayed by Famke Janssen? Telling the Dark Phoenix tale would place Ms. Janssen front and center for much of the movie -- I don't think she's ever had a really large, meaty role before this. Checking IMDb, I see a large number of fairly small roles, some in quite obscure films.

Other drawbacks include introduction of the character "Mastermind", an illusion caster, who is very similar to Stryker's son -- and was pivotal in corrupting Jean in the comics. There would be little or nothing for Magneto to do unless the story was substantially changed. The White Queen is very similar to Xavier, and the rest of the Hellfire club is kinda lightweight.

I think it could be done, but I think it would require substantial changes to the story, and wouldn't be without risk.

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Originally posted by REG
Will a comic-book translation do well in the box office? Only if the majority of the mainstream are X-Men comic book fans. But then they would not be called mainstream, but genre fans (like me).

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I'm not sure I'm understanding you when you say "comic book translation." Do you mean an adaptaion of the Dark Phoenix saga for the screen that was initially published in comic book form?

If so, then X2 was an adaptation of something that was published. "God Love, Man Kills." It was only barely recongizable, but the same basic events that happened in the graphic novel happened in the movie.

granted, the DP saga was a lot longer and broader in scope. But they've already shown the capability to make a comic book translate to the screen without losing fans and without boring the mainstreamers.

But admittedly, I still have concerns. DP is a big story to tell. And right now, you've got two very big actors with very big egos who will probably demand screen time that their characters just don't deserve. And we'll probably be flooded with a bunch of new characters and cameos that will take even more screen time away from the story. And, we'll probably have to introduce a new Big Bad to the mix as well. This could hamstring any story they choose to tell, though, not just the DP saga.



Strictly Speaking

They will have to do something really different if they keep it "down to Earth." Otherwise the Dark Phoenix will become just another cardboard cut out villian, no different the the Brotherhood.

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Originally posted by Phantom
Otherwise the Dark Phoenix will become just another cardboard cut out villian, no different the the Brotherhood.

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They need to retain the "seduced by evil" part of the storyline. Without it, Dark Phoenix lacks the victimhood that makes her story more tragic.

But mind control factored into X2 -- including a fight between Scott and Jean. Such a fight would almost certain occur were Jean to become Dark Phoenix.

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Originally posted by strict31

I'm not sure I'm understanding you when you say "comic book translation." Do you mean an adaptaion of the Dark Phoenix saga for the screen that was initially published in comic book form?

If so, then X2 was an adaptation of something that was published. "God Love, Man Kills." It was only barely recongizable, but the same basic events that happened in the graphic novel happened in the movie.

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I apologize for not being specific, as the X-Men have many stories, which is all part of the series. I am referring to one such stories, and that is the "Dark Phoenix" saga.

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granted, the DP saga was a lot longer and broader in scope. But they've already shown the capability to make a comic book translate to the screen without losing fans and without boring the mainstreamers.

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For the most part, because they kept it down to earth. To show that "mutants are like us, only different."

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But admittedly, I still have concerns. DP is a big story to tell. And right now, you've got two very big actors with very big egos who will probably demand screen time that their characters just don't deserve. And we'll probably be flooded with a bunch of new characters and cameos that will take even more screen time away from the story. And, we'll probably have to introduce a new Big Bad to the mix as well. This could hamstring any story they choose to tell, though, not just the DP saga.

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So far, I only know of one actress. But it can't be helped, unless the audience could buy that Jean Grey is ... ethnically different. Whatever airtime she gets, I hope it is good enough for her without distracting from the main story.

As for the other actor, well, the first movie did revolved around his character and it continued in X2, but I don't know if that's the end of it.

Suffice to say, Bryan Singer is taking a page from Peter Jackson's (or is it Quentin Tarantino's?) notebook. That is, he is going to film both X3 and X4 all at once.

I've got a feeling that we will see Colossus and Kitty Pride in this one, as both had cameo's in X2. Picard...sorry, Prof X :D made a mention of "knowing a little girl that can walk through walls". Also, one Dr Hank McCoy might well appear, as in X2 he had a fleeting appearance on a TV screen in the film. I think I remember reading that Hugh Jackman said he wanted to do other things, so I guess he will do maybe this one, and be written out, but not killed off (leaving the door open to return at a later date). Wolverine as a character should take a back seat for a while as he has had major screen time in the last two films.

I also liked the fact that Stryker's database had other mutants listed (Remy Martin etc).......maybe we'll get a non-canon film, using parts of the DP storyline (ultimate power corrupting absolutely, or at least tempting) and more of the discrimination angle.

We have seen the start of the formation of the Brotherhood Of Evil Mutants, so maybe we will see another baddie or two. (Blob?) Or maybe, just maybe we will see Cain Marko (Juggernaut)....now, that might be interesting. I just hope we get better CGI for him than The Hulk got!

Just a few random musings

Cheers
Tas

I don't know if Wolverine is going to take a back seat (although I'm hoping they won't do him like they did with Cyclops airtime in X2). If they're going to focus on Jean Grey, they might as well also focus on the ongoing love triangle.

Regardless of his airtime, I just hope that there will be a subplot in which they can spin him off into his own solo movie.

As for Kitty Pryde -- there are two of them -- I prefer the one in the first film.

REG, i guess, in part, i gotta disagree with you about the down to earth thing. While "God Loves, Man Kills/X2" was certainly not like the cosmic DP saga, the movie version of the comic book storyline was still rather out there. There were "down to earth" moments, sure. But the movie cuminated with a plot to uses a telepathy-enhancing machine to kill every mutant 9and then human) in the world. That's a good clip away from down to earth, IMHO. But that's neither here nor there, because, also IMHO, what made the second movie work was a good, solidly written screenplay. Good writing, period.

As I said before, I don't know if the third movie will involve Dark Phoenix at all. But regardless, if it involves good writing, "down to earth" doesn't matter a whole lot.


I pretty much agree with the rest of your statements, though.


Strictly Speaking

Well, I'm all for good writing, and I don't mind being surprised or impressed by such good writing that will involve taking the X-Men into outer space (or bring outer space to the X-Men on earth), but from my limited creative perspective I don't see how they can do it without turning it into something ... campy. I simply don't like seeing comic-book superhero movie sequel turn into something like the last Batman movie sequel. Try to stick to the premise without going overboard.

On that same note, I hope Spider-Man 2 stick to the premise of Peter Parker trying to cope his personal life (which involves Mary Jane Watson) with that of his superhero double life.

I agree with most of what has been said here. But, I do also beleive that if you have to change a story fundamentally to make a movie, then come up with a different story. How do you prove the power level of DP without going galactic? Maybe if she flies into the core pile of a nuclear reactor and drains that perhaps, but that still doesn't scratch the surface. Even though they haven't been seen in movie form characters/events like Galactus, and K/S Wars are part of that world, making it a 'galactic' setting either way. If you remove the big, flashy, epic parts of the DP Saga then it isn't the Saga. If they want to remain 'earthbound' then they should deal with the Sentinels.

Hell, I would even like to see a Brood invasion of Earth in movie format.:cool:

If they use DP just for the villian of the day, then the character will simply be old hat.

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Originally posted by REG
I don't know if that would gell with the mainstream, because the story direction will now have to go intergalactic (possibly introducing the Skrull and Kree War) and away from the main theme that made X-Men so popular: Discrimination.

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I'm not sure what the Skrull & Kree have to do w/ the Dark Phoenix saga other than they had observers when Empress Lilandra's Imperial Guard tried to kill Jean Grey. But the original story did directly involve the Shi'ar Empire & I agree they won't likely introduce the alien aspects into the movies. Thus, it is likely we won't see a scene where Dark Phoenix destroys a sun thereby killing 5 billion beings.

My guess is the next movie may focus on Jean Grey's new powers as Phoenix and her eventual descent into Dark Phoenix. How they'll deal with that is unknown but they may introduce Mastermind who tries manipulate Jean's mind. But they could leave out Mastermind since the story of Dark Phoenix is how that much power in a single human is impossible to control & how human failings/emotions will eventually lead one down the road to darkness. Power corrups & absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Or maybe the story will be about the Govt's attempts to control mutants and how Phoenix eventually becomes Dark Phoenix in defending mutantkind. Dark Phoenix has the power to eliminate all humans thus confirming the Govt's claims that mutants are a threat to mankind.

If Singer is really filming X3 and X4 at the same time, then it is at least possible that these will be like Kill Bill 1 and 2 -- two halves of a single story. That approach would allow a fair degree of cosmic storytelling.

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Originally posted by Fesarius

If Singer is really filming X3 and X4 at the same time, then it is at least possible that these will be like Kill Bill 1 and 2 -- two halves of a single story. That approach would allow a fair degree of cosmic storytelling.

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Yeah, but from what I hear through the grapevine, Quentin Tarantino initially wanted Kill Bill to be one looong movie (about 3 hours), but grudgingly surrendered to the studio's decision to split it. While I have not yet seen Vol. 2, many say it is not as exciting as Vol. 1.

Had Tarantino planned it to be a two-part movie from the beginning, the same way Peter Jackson had planned for LOTR, perhaps he could have taken a better approach to pacing out the story over two 2-hour film length.

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Originally posted by Jem'hadar

I'm not sure what the Skrull & Kree have to do w/ the Dark Phoenix saga other than they had observers when Empress Lilandra's Imperial Guard tried to kill Jean Grey. But the original story did directly involve the Shi'ar Empire & I agree they won't likely introduce the alien aspects into the movies. Thus, it is likely we won't see a scene where Dark Phoenix destroys a sun thereby killing 5 billion beings.

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I apologized for not having the best recollection of Marvel Universe lore. My only recollection from memory alone (haven't picked up a comic book since the 90's) is that the Shi'ar Empire is comprised of one of the two species mentioned, and are at war with each other. Then again, they could be the third species involved with either the Skrull or the Kree.

I'd like to think that her metamorphosis began back in the first X-Men, where she might be the only one affected by Magneto's invention, somehow awakening a dormant mutant gene in her, but did not show up immediately, and the final catalyst happened in X2, where she died saving her comrades.

One has to wonder what kind of additional powers will this (Dark) Phoenix have? Will we see her turned away? As I don't see how Magneto is going to be her "devil's advocate," what new villain will appear to turned her to the dark side?

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Originally posted by REG
My only recollection from memory alone (haven't picked up a comic book since the 90's) is that the Shi'ar Empire is comprised of one of the two species mentioned, and are at war with each other. Then again, they could be the third species involved with either the Skrull or the Kree.

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The Shi'ar Empire is ruled by the Shi'ar, a vaguely birdlike race. It consists of many subject races, but the Skrulls and the Kree are not among them.

The Skrulls and the Kree have suffered various reversals in recent years: the Skrull Throneworld was sucked dry by Galactus, and much of the Kree population fell victim to a plan of their own Supreme Intelligence to force their evolution to accelerate.

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Originally posted by REG
I'd like to think that her metamorphosis began back in the first X-Men, where she might be the only one affected by Magneto's invention, somehow awakening a dormant mutant gene in her, but did not show up immediately, and the final catalyst happened in X2, where she died saving her comrades.

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This might make an interesting story, but the chief problem I'd have with it is that it removes the element of choice from the equation. At least part of what happened to Jean/Phoenix when she became Dark Phoenix was about the choices she made. While it's true that Mastermind engineered some of her bad decisions, they were still her decisions: he can't exert mind control (and the Phoenix entity had patterned itself, at least in part, on Jean Grey's mind).

I think the element of free choice needs to be there, to allow for some kind of meaningful redemption, and/or to make her destruction more tragic.

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Originally posted by REG
what new villain will appear to turned her to the dark side?

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"Oh no, my young Phoenix. You will find that it is you who are mistaken, about a great many things."

(Sorry, couldn't resist! :))

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Originally posted by Fesarius

I think the element of free choice needs to be there, to allow for some kind of meaningful redemption, and/or to make her destruction more tragic.

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Hmm. As I'm trying to recollect every detail of the DS Saga, my question is why did Phoenix chose to turn?

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Originally posted by Fesarius
The Shi'ar Empire is ruled by the Shi'ar, a vaguely birdlike race. It consists of many subject races, but the Skrulls and the Kree are not among them.

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Actually, I think nowadays the Kree are a subject race of the Shi'ar. I seem to recall an X-Men Unlimited several years back showing so...but things may have changed since then.

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Originally posted by REG
Hmm. As I'm trying to recollect every detail of the DS Saga, my question is why did Phoenix chose to turn?

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IIRC, it was Mastermind's telepathic manipulations turning Jean Grey into the Black Queen of the Hellfire Club that exposed the Phoenix Force to the darker side of passion and power-lust. It all went downhill from there, with Jean's personality unable to maintain control until the end.

So, it is the Phoenix persona that lusted for power and control, not Jean Grey. But is that the "dark" persona of Jean Grey herself, or a different entity living in the host body?

As I'm doing my best to catch up on X-Men comics since X2 made a fan out of me, it seems to me that the movies somehow reduced the magnitude of the powers of the heroes.
I mean, for instance, Xavier was apparently able to keep mental contact with all of the X Men while they were on mission in the comics, while in the movies he does not seem to be able to contact anyone past a certain distance (apart from localising them with Cerebro).
Likewise, we hardly see Storm fly in the movies while she frequently does so in the comics (ok, I understand that we have FX constraints here, but still), and so on.

So maybe will Phenix be a very powerful mutant (like she was at the end of X2, maybe a bit more), but not with stellar powers as in the comics. It makes little differences anyway to the rest of the world if she's able to destroy a star or just level a city with a simple thought.

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Originally posted by REG
So, it is the Phoenix persona that lusted for power and control, not Jean Grey. But is that the "dark" persona of Jean Grey herself, or a different entity living in the host body?

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The question of choice sorta becomes moot in the comic due to the massive retcon they pulled in order to put the original X-Men line up into X-factor. Jean grey never actually was the host in the retcon. The Entity assumed her form and placed Jean's body in suspended animation in a tube deep in the Hudson.

Technically, yes, the Entity was patterned on Jean. But it never actually was Jean making those choices.

:(

Don't look at me like that...I didn't write that crap...I'm just waiting for enough time to go by so that people will have forgotten that Colossus is supposed to be "really, REALLY dead" so they can bring him back too. And then Illyana...


Strictly Speaking

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Originally posted by Fesarius
Remember that many of the events that led up to Dark Phoenix took place right here on Earth. It was the Hellfire Club who opened that door. It seems extremely unlikely that they would leave her "evil" at the end of the film unless they wanted to write off the character. That would be a lot of story to jam into one film.

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This is precisely my concern and why I didn't like X-Men 2: too many characters fighting for too little screen time. Killing Jean off at the end wasn't necessary and the foreshadowing of the Phoenix Force? They crammed something like 30 issues and five years of story in less than two hours...

Now they'll either a) introduce entirely *new* characters (the Hellfire Club) which will fight for even *more* screen time or b) they'll gloss over the whole thing and cheapen probably the best ever X-Men storyline. (The Phoenix Saga is, in a word, incredible.)

No, I'm not a canon whore, but I just don't see how even Singer can do this justice.

I liken it to trying to fit the Lord of the Rings book trilogy into a single 2 hour movie. :)

Seeing the Black King would be worth it, though. ;)

He just better have a staff of best qualified writers, with comic-book experience.

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Originally posted by Don Mappin
This is precisely my concern and why I didn't like X-Men 2: too many characters fighting for too little screen time. Killing Jean off at the end wasn't necessary and the foreshadowing of the Phoenix Force? They crammed something like 30 issues and five years of story in less than two hours...

Now they'll either a) introduce entirely *new* characters (the Hellfire Club) which will fight for even *more* screen time or b) they'll gloss over the whole thing and cheapen probably the best ever X-Men storyline. (The Phoenix Saga is, in a word, incredible.)

No, I'm not a canon whore, but I just don't see how even Singer can do this justice.

I liken it to trying to fit the Lord of the Rings book trilogy into a single 2 hour movie. :)

Seeing the Black King would be worth it, though. ;)

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Wow! Don and I actually agree on something.:cool:

Well put.

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Originally posted by Phantom
Wow! Don and I actually agree on something.:cool:

Well put.

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It happens from time-to-time. ;)

I always heard the Bryan Singer's plan for the movies was this:
X1: Mutant vs. Mutant
X2: Mutant vs. Human
X3: Mutant vs Evolution (or Humans and Mutants Vs. Evolution)

Dark Phoenix might quallify as 'evolution', but you'd have to mangle so much of the DP arc (Jean has already 'died' saving the team, but it's hard to say the Phoenix force was in the floodwaters, not a star like in the comic)

other ideas for what could constitute 'evolution'-
Apocalypse (my personal choice)
Sentinals (since they always turn on their creator; but Matrix fans will claim Singer stole the name)
i have more, but most would call for MAJOR plot tweeking

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Originally posted by Fesarius
The White Queen is very similar to Xavier, and the rest of the Hellfire club is kinda lightweight.

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They changed Emma Frost into a Xavier type but the character started as an evil seductress that is loyal to Sebastian Shaw. Emma grows up after the Hellfire Club is destroyed.

If they make a movie. Apacalypse is the direction to go. Even he is more evil than Magneto can stand. This time Xavier and Magneto lead the X-Men together?

Sentinals, who said Stryker is dead? Did you see a body? Revenge is a dish best served cold, an old russian expression. And Sentinals are cold.

FYI,

Stewart: X-Men 3 Stirs
Patrick Stewart told syndicated columnists Marilyn Beck and Stacy Jenel Smith that a third X-Men movie is gearing up.
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-m.../04/11.30.film

Here is the X3 idea i had awhile back:

Apocalypse makes his grand appearence, along with his 4 horsemen. For fun, rather than having War, Pestilence and Famine being unknown mutants, you could have them be 'known' mutants (Gambit would be a kick-@$$ War; Selene, the second Black Queen, could be a pretty good Famine or Pestilance)

I'll deal with the Defacto leader of the Horsemen, Death, in a bit.

After a few attacks on 'inferior humans', the Gov't reveals their answer to ancient mutants and their cronies: The Sentinels.

Big A is tickled pink, because the Sentinels will give him his war, the war in which the fit will survive (maybe he monkeys with the programing, maybe they go all 'wipe out all life' on their own), and the X-men(and elements of the Brotherhood) must stop both the Big A and the Sentinels before they wipe out everybody (Apocalypse humans; Sentinels mutants/all humanity)

Now, about my plans for Death: this version is a woman. She flys around on wings of fire; and firy auras manifest when she uses her powers, which appear to be telekinetic. Big A says he found her, and unleashed her true potential, and in combat with the X-men she seems to know all their moves, and she taunts Scott and Logan like she knows them.
And, during the final battle, her spooky Death Mask comes off, revealing red hair and they realize she is really.................

Felicity Hardy?

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Originally posted by REG
Felicity Hardy?

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No silly. It's Morgan Fairchild in an Old Navy commercial.


Strictly Speaking