So I am interested in Xindi statistics, both for the Xindi species and for their technology/ships/equipment.
Anyone care to jump right in?
mactavish out.
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So I am interested in Xindi statistics, both for the Xindi species and for their technology/ships/equipment.
Anyone care to jump right in?
mactavish out.
Here's what we know about the Xindi so far:
1. The Xindi-Primates are very human in their attitudes and behaviors.
2. The Xindi-Arboreals are reasonable and tend to think along the same lines as the Primates.
3. The Xindi-Aquatics take a very long time to make a decision about anything.
4. The Xindi-Insectoids, on the other hand, are quick to reach a conclusion.
5. The Xindi-Reptilians are militant, reactionary, and generally unpleasant. They seem to be generally opposed to the ideas and proposals of the Primates and the Arboreals.
6. The sixth Xindi subspecies - the Avians - became extinct long ago. They built an aerie in the cliffs of a planet used as the Xindi Council meeting chamber. The Council was formed to prevent the extinction of any more Xindi subspecies.
7. The Xindi homeworld was destroyed ~2023, presumably as the result of a century of warfare. The various Xindi subspecies have their own colony worlds (some of which are integrated), their own leadership structures, and their own fleets of starships. They all defer to the will of the Council for matters involving all Xindi.
8. The Sphere Builders - whom the Xindi refer to as the Guardians - saved the Xindi from racial dissolution decades earlier. They aided them in forming their Council and duped them into uniting against a fictional threat posed my mankind. The Xindi revere these Guardians as their saviors.
9. The Sphere Builders are extradimensional. They built their network of spheres in the Delphic Expanse to reconfigure space so that they could survive in our reality (presumably to colonize and/or invade). They are capable of not only viewing possible future timelines, but also (apparently) of traveling in time.
10. The Xindi as a whole are more advanced technologically than humanity in the mid-22nd century.
Have I missed anything?
mactavish out.
Xindi-Insectoid names get longer as they grow older. Didn't we learn, perhaps in "Hatchery", that Insectoids only live about nine or ten years?
You know, I really like the concept of an alien race consisting of mutliple subspecies. That's a pretty nifty gimmick and not one we've seen too frequently.
Another piece that I've noticed is that all Xindi share a couple of physical characteristics: they all appear to have a sort of "Klingon-lite" forehead and perhaps redundant nostrils (2) along their cheekbones. It appears that they all have them.
Dr. Phlox also noted that the various Xindi subspecies share remarkably similar genetic makeups.
mactavish out.
No different than mankind and the rest of the real-world life forms on this planet. The variances between species on Earth only involve a 5%(?) 1%(?) difference in DNA sequencing ?Quote:
Originally posted by mactavish
Dr. Phlox also noted that the various Xindi subspecies share remarkably similar genetic makeups.
The only difference between the Xindi and humanity is that various Xindi species developed sapience and the ability to use tools. On Earth, we have species that use tools (some species of the great apes) and some that are, or are close to, human-level intelligent (some species of cetaceans, particularly dolphins) but none other than man to combine the two.
I'm curious how technologically advanced they are compared to humanity. How fast do their ships go? What about their subspace cooridors? Their weapons (ship-based and personal)? Are their vessels equipped with shields?
Would you think that all Xindi are equal technologically? Maybe some species are more advanced than the others in a specific area. Are the Reptilians and Insectoids better with weapons? I am really interested in designing some Xindi vessels, but am not sure how good it's systems should be. From what we've seen, I'd say a really good structural integrity field (SIF) is standard (at least on their shuttles).
It seems that the Xindi have transporters. Do they have replicators?
As for their personal weapons, it seems like the different species have different firearms. The Reptilians seem equipped with phaser or disruptor rifles. The Insectoids, on the other hand, had their "glop gun" that splattered some sppoge on a bulkhead which then sprayed some sort of energy or chemical attack at the crewmen.
We've also discovered that the Reptilians seem to like knives. Are they like Klingons in that way? Maybe with a martial history of unarmed and melee combat styles.
Just some things to think about.
mactavish out.
mactivish, I'm trying to work on some Xindi starships. I' believe Xindi starships don't have warp and rely on vortices to get from point a to b. Chances are the Xindi ships are only capable of impulse drive, IMO. The repetillian starship seem to come in different sizes kinda like the Klingon BOP in TNG or its a special fx mistake.
The transporter thing seems iffy. On Twilight, in the alternate 10 years after Earth's destruction, they have transporters but in the recent episode they beamed over Hoshi, yet they always boarded through the airlock. My theory is the Sphere Buidlers are giving them bits of future technology along the way.
I believe their side arms are disruptors. It is my belief that phaers are a federation trait and tradition says disruptors are for bad guys. :). But i think their weapon has one setting which is to kill. I don't think the Instectoids have the glob gun you mentioned. It was the reptilian than fired it. Its probably their version of a grenade launcher. The insectoids, on the other hand, have some sort of "sonic boom" gun.
I tend to think they are technologically equal considering they are united and share their technology amongst them.
Xindi reptillians have a "suicide" glan.
We'll see how the arc ends.
I"m going to try to catch "The Council" again :cool:
In a recent episode of Enterprise I was watching there were a number ofinteresting titbits to make some summaries out of.
The Xindi definatelly do work together to produce their technology as I distinctly remember one of them mentioning how he was a designer of one of the parts for the Reptiles ship (right before he blew it up :D)
The Xindi also seem to have mapped out the expanse almost fully and mentioned how each of the spheres is connected by subspace filaments... I wonder, if the Xindi are actually warp capable or not. While on the one hand they were talking about opening a rift to earth for their weapon, it could be something to do with these subspace strands within their space that allows them to form their subspace rifts - possibly technology they gained from the Sphere builders - if the Sphere's dissapeared they might not be able to do it anymore.. maybe they will - it's just a possible story ark :D Certainly Archer is going to have to ride one of these rifts to leave Xindi space as even the Vulcans couldn't leave it by normal means!
In terms of weapons technology I think the Xindi are quite inovative. There comes a point when a weapon which can disintergrate you ceases to get any better :D But they do have lots of disabling weapons - such as the sonic shock thingy and the spray on goo weapons.. Which have the added advantage of sealing off the coridoor too! :) The components of their weapons are a curious mixture of semi organic, organic and metals - their energy cells seem to be some sort of organic form!
I'm not 100% sure if the Xindi have shields as it's a little bit of a wooly issue in Enterprise and I suspect that the answer might be 'some' of their ships do.
It's hard to say if the Xindi are very much more advanced than humans / Vulcans - allot of the initial fear of the region of space they inhabit really stems from the Sphere builders, who we know are sharing technology wih the Xindi for their own purposes, though to be fair to the Xindi they do seem like they know how their technology works - I.e. they understand it not just use it - so in the aftermath of the TCW with the Sphere builders allot is going to have changed in the political landscape. It was hinted that the Xindi actually join the Federation at some future date so it could be possible they do that relativelly soon after it's formation - or equally 3 weeks before the Sphere builders invade :)
You know, I don't think that we have actually seen the Xindi use warp drive.
Does that mean that they don't have it? Perhaps. Maybe the use of their subspace corridors precludes the use of warp travel. Maybe they have both but their warp drives are slow compared to how fast they can travel using their corridors. I'm not sure, but I'd suggest that they do have the capability of producing a warp-capable vessel but that they haven't done so just yet.
How long have the Sphere Builders been working in the Delphic Expanse? We've learned that they contacted the Xindi ~120 years earlier, just after the destruction of Xindis, their homeworld. How old are the spheres themselves? It seems like we've heard in one episode or another that they're thousands of years old, but I can't rightly remember. Anyone that can help my failing memory, feel free to do so.
So the Xindi apparently have been a spacefaring race for millennia. This is evidenced by the fact that the Council world - originally settled by the Xindi-Avians - was over 4,000 years old. So the question is this: how did they travel to another star system? Did they use STL drive, warp drive, or were the subspace corridors available at that time? If we assume that the corridors were available, and that the Sphere Builders are somehow responsible for them, then we can assume the Sphere Builders have been around for quite some time.
As for the Xindi technological base, I think that they're probably 15-25 years more advanced than mankind (depending on the field), but that the Vulcans are probably 40-50 years more advanced than humanity (if not more). The Vulcans have ship-based shields, tractor emitters, and FTL engines able to go faster than Warp 5. The Xindi appear to have powerful ship-mounted weapons (more powerful than Enterprise), transporters, and medical-related technologies superior to humans and Denobulans (as evidenced in "The Council"). So, I guess that I'd say that the Xindi are somewhat more advanced than humanity and somewhat less advanced than the Vulcans.
So what about the Andorians? The Klingons? The Axanari? The Denobulans? The Romulans? The Tholians? I think that everyone is more advanced than mankind in one or more technological areas: the Andorians have better weapons, faster ships, tractor beams, better sensors, and so on. The Klingons have faster ships and more powerful weapons. Not sure about the Axanari. The Denobulans seem to have a better grip on medicine and other sciences than mankind, but (to the best of my knowledge) we've not seen one of their ships as yet.
As for the Romulans, the CODA books suggest that - in the age of Enterprise - they have no warp drive, no cloaking technology, and no beam or energy-based missile weapons. The episode "Minefield" seems to contradict much of this, but - as we've only seen one ship - it's hard to tell how widespread their cloaking and weapons technology are.
The Tholians are a mystery. They obviously have warp-capable ships, powerful weapons, and some sort of temporal sensor technologies. I think that they are much more advanced in many ways, but that their reclusive nature makes them something of a wild card.
There are, of course, other races that we've either not seen at all or that we've seen fleetingly. I am interested in the Breen, the Ferengi, the Bajorans, the Cardassians, the Orions, the Trill, the Betazoids, the Shelliak, and a host of others. I'm interested in what you guys have to say about them.
Your insights are most welcome.
mactavish out.
Fascinating subject mactavish.
Hmm I don't think it's as so easy to quantify everything in this era as easilly of who is how far ahead of an other - mostly because exactly how advanced people are is somewhat cloaked.
I think that the Xindi are probably on a par with the Vulcans it's just that they are in different areas. I think that a Vulcan cruiser could probably beat a couple of the Xindi ships in terms of tactical firepower, however I think in hand to have level of technology the Xindi would beat the Vulcans. None of the Vulcans technology was able to stave off the effects of the Expanse (though generlaly this hasn't been a problem for everyone else).
I think that it could be that the Xindi have slow warp drive, because thos ehandy shortcuts are apparently MUCH faster than conventional warp drive. I do think they are somewhat limited though, and possibly to the expanse it's self.
Going to other races. The Andorians seem to have some more advanced military technology though perhaps not as advanced as the Vulcans. The Klingons are probably on a par with the ndorians, however I suspect that the Klingon empire is quite a large thing by now and their technology comes more from a slow plodding pace than rapid development - Point in case - Klingon technology rapidly falls behind Federation technology - yes their arms and military budget means their ships are capable of outputting huge quantities of energy through those weapons - but in almost every other area, including medicine they are sorelly lacking.
The Romulans I suspect have a technology level comparable to the Klingons - it's just their strengths lie in other areas - I.e. cloaking fields and tactical weaponry rather than brite force like the klingons. Perhaps they are even less advanced than Humans, it's hard to really know - but then that's their whole game isn't it - and always has been!
I think that the Tholians are pretty much hands down FAR more technologically advanced than almost every other species. They have ships that can easilly handle the Vulcans and the Suliban. They seem to have advanced sensors and the Tholian web, while distinctly odd, demonstrates a hugh technical prowess in terms of their ability to manipulate energy and gravity and subspace. The fact they are fairly teritorial and have no real need for expansion is why they don't neccessarily have huge fleets of ships - they have just enough to do what they need to - protect their assets with lethal force! :D
I would also tend to assume that the Xindi have warp capabilities but prefer to use their subspace tunnels for the sake of speed.
Regarding the Klingons, I think we're on the same page. In my estimation, they were probably artificially advanced by the Hur'q - the aliens that invaded and conquered Qo'nos at some point in the past. Last Unicorn indicated that the Klingons got warp drive by capturing and reverse-engineering the U.S.S. Ranger, a Starfleet vessel. Apparently they already have warp travel (as evidenced in several episodes, including "Sleeping Dogs" and "The Expanse"). They don't have cloaking technology in the 22nd century, however; perhaps they get it from the Romulans or the Suliban.
I truly love the Romulans and would like to see them take a greater role, but I'm really not sure how to design their vessels. Do they have plasma weapons? Photon torpedoes? Defense shields? We know that the one we saw in "Minefield" has a cloak, and that they can produce mines with cloaks... which leads me to believe that their ships can cloak in the same fashion as the Suliban cell ships.
I also agree with your assessment of the Andorians. They are pretty militant, possessing pretty decent hand and ship-based energy weapons. I like the Andorians almost as much as the Romulans, and I really wish we'd seen more of them to this point. Tellarites, too.
The Xindi are pretty tough; they cleaned Enterprise's clock pretty effectively (though they did have multiple vessels). I desperately want to put together some statistics for the various Xindi ships we've seen so far, but damn it, Jim, I'm a writer, not an engineer! ;)
So anyway, I like this topic and plan to keep adding to it. I think that - even though Enterprise has its issues - it does offer a pretty cool glimpse into the history of Starfleet, the upcoming Federation, and the many alien species (friend and foe) we've grown to love/loathe since the 1960s.
mactavish out.
I believe there are several instances where it was indicated that the first contact with the Klingons was what precipitated the later wars - but that's all nor (relativelly) in the past because the Entperise Timeline version has changed it. Plain and simple if you want to run Enterprise you HAVE to go with their version so all other arguments are rendered moot as the Klingons have played a pivotal role - if you arent running Enterprise you can just brush it under the carpet and be as vague as possible :D
I think as a model the Hurq' are a good way to explain the relative technological advantage of the Klingons - They are pretty powerful BUT they don't have a huge understanding of the technology and haven't really grown into more modern forms of war (they place a strong emphasis on their tradition and culture) - I suspect the reason we've seen so much change in the Klingons is that the generation AFTER TOS were reacting to a sudden and violent change in their society and it's implications of loss of identity. This points to the Klingons being suddenly accelerated - that power went to their heads, but with a few more years under their belts they decided to try and recapture their traditions before they were destroyed by their new culture!
I, despite making the Vulcans Evil, love the Andorians, though of course with the addition of the third series the Andorians had some evil installed :D - It's easy to see how they come round to allying with the Humans. The Tellarites are the last of the big 4 to be shown - and i hope they do - ye's we've seen *1* but I meant their culture as a whole. I think they did a good job making the Andorians a little less Naff, and I hope they can do the same for the Tellarites! If it's supposed to be realistic for the Federation to form with them as a central partner then they REALLY need to be in the show soon!
I guess it's also hard in this era to reflect such differences in game stats - the top and bottom end of the scale doesn't have quite as much difference in stats as the TOS - TNG era - though in some ways this is a blessing in disguise as really the ships aren;t much better or worse - What makes them different is the story arks.
Things like the Trellium D in the Delphic expanse make a HUGE difference (maybe an edge which ships need to navigate properly without melting!) but which wouldn't really represent any physical stat. Things like Tholian weapons also tend to be a 'special' case, you can't really stat them because they are more or less in the 'Species 8472' camp of - dead or not if you're hit! :D
Something which isn't reflected in Decipher which should have been was torpedo availability. In the Delphic expanse the enteprise never once mentioned a lack of them - yet Voyager was always concerned with running out! To me that speaks of a lack of continuity but in real terms I err on Voyagers side - Some things have been stated to be unable to be replicated - and they don't even have replicators on Enterprise anyway ! The ability to manufacture parts is a HUGE problem for Enterprise era crews - but then I think this is something of more of a plot nature.. because total damage of one system might strand them in their location alone for decades, so you have to let them repair it - but equally you might arbitrarily decide to say "Your warp coil is damaged beyond repair - what are you goingto do ?" as a story ark such as Archer had to deal with when he was 8ahem* forced to steal one!
You and I also agree on the Tellarites. If they're so important, then where the heck are they? My understanding is that they are the primary engineers of the Federation, and that a great deal of starship design and construction is based on their ideas.
I see portraying the Klingons like Vikings with warp drives and disruptor cannons. Their traditions are very important to them, but so in kicing everyone else's butts. They are fairly well-equipped, but seem a lot like the Kazon in some ways: they have this advanced technology that they don't completely understand. Unlike the Kazon, they can reproduce and repair it, but their limited understanding has led to a major slowdown in their technical development, much like "the Race" from the Turtledove novels. Thus we see the D-7 as a ship from the mid-22nd through the late-23rd centuries with little real advancement or development. Perhaps they have their subjugated "client races" produce new ships and weapons for them, spending their own energies on conquest.
The Andorians really do rock. I've been using a lot of my Last Unicorn Games books as source materials for my CODA game preparation, and the Andorian book is just the best. Besides the little linguistic nuances, we have the Am Tal and the whole dueling culture scenario (which seems somewhat supported by what we've seen in Enterprise). The fact that they are so militant and well-armed is very likely one of the main reasons that the Earth-Romulan War ended when it did; the prospect of facing the humans, Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites was likely a little discomfiting. (Yes, I realize that I didn't include the Centaurans; Entperprise seems to indicate that Alpha Centauri is a human colony, so - while it may be a founding member of the Federation - it is populated by humans).
More later.
mactavish out.
Hey hold on... i thought i this was Xindi thread :D
I still contend that the Xindi don't have warp. The vortices are there FTL travel but we'll have to see in the next two episodes on what they really are, considering the foes have escaped through them.
Now as for the stats ....
1. xindi ships appear to have disruptor like weapons. I've referred to the Starship sourcebook and noticed that Klingons and Cardassian have similar generic disruptor technology. Perhaps one could fit the Xindi in there too.
2. I think the Xindi disruptor rifle has unlimited power.
Like i said before, transporters are kinda iffy. Why did they have to board ship through the airlock like in Rajiiin?
I agree with Tobian that the Tholians are ahead of the crowd. Romulans are a mystery. Its assumed that they do have a primitive form of cloaking that even a shuttlecraft can easily detect. Klingons have obviously mastered transporter use as shown in the Maruanders episode. The Andorians, I believe, have primitive deflector shields which might explain how they're able to go through the expanse with realtive ease and it seems like they can get out of the expanse with ease too.
it is about the Xindi but it's also mactavish's thread and I was answering him :)
In al seriousness there is a need to understand the relative technology of all of the races of this era to understand the Xindi.
because of the general poorness of cultural databases sensors and general intercomunication exactly what one race has to another would be an anatamae to the period people too! that and advanced adaptable shielding hasn't made things like the radiation in the delphic expanse negligable :)
The Xindi do appear to have disruptors like the Klingons. They are also [obviously] advanced in weapons technology (i.e. "the Weapon").
I get the distinct impression, however, that the Xindi are not particularly widespread... indeed, it seems that they've never left the Delphic Expanse (except to attack Earth).
Regarding why the Xindi always seem to dock and board when attacking enemy vessels, I've always thought that it was either a.) because polarizing the hull somehow affects their transporter technology, b.) they can't send over more than one or two people at a time (limiting the effectiveness of boarding parties), or c.) they prefer the physical act of boarding enemy ships. Sure, maybe they could use their transporters to board, but isn't it more fun to climb through that airlock and blast the first homeotherms you see? :D
Like I said, I'd guess they do have warp drive technologies, but that the subspace corridors are faster for their travel needs. I'd also guess that their impulse drives are pretty good, considering that they can outrun Enterprise in STL pursuit.
I don't think we've seen Xindi missile weapons of any kind thus far, but that doesn't mean they don't have them; their disruptors just do the job pretty well (as "the Weapon" seems to indicate).
I think that they possess standard sensors, particularly due to some comments Degra made about Enterprise having sophisticated sensors for a warship. I took that as a sign that their sensor technologies are fairly similar.
I haven't noticed any universal translator technologies amongst the Xindi. It seems that they all understand each others' languages. I'd say that the Primates, Arboreals, and Reptilians all speak Xindi Standard, while the Insectoids and Aquatics both speak their own languages (though, as I said, they all understand each other).
The Primates, Arboreals, and Aquatics seem to make use of cruisers, while the Reptilians prefer warships and the Insectoids, fast attack cruisers and [perhaps] transports (for their spawn). They also all seem to use shuttles and escape pods, too. How would you classify Degra's vessel? Scout? Science vessel?
And finally, "the Weapon." How would you build something like this? How big is the damned thing anyway? It seems to be considerably bigger than the largest Xindi ships, but how big is that?
mactavish out.
I haven't seen all the episodes on Enterprise - have we seen the Xindi actually use Transporter technology?
If they have it, it could be that it's a huge machine that only the largest ships can support (or uses vast quantities of energy and can't be run off a car battery like Enterprises :D)
I suspect that low numbers would be a problem. The Xindi like to attack en-masse in large boarding parties. It could also be that they also like to attach their ships - for one it's an AWFUL lot harder to hit a ship if it's attatched to you! Weapons which do starship levels of damage also explode in YOUR face too :) It also is a means, as you pointed out, to circumvent things such as polarized hull plating, navigational deflector shields (you never know, a large magnetic field might be all they need - did anyone explain how they don't have forcefields and yet have a..... navigational forcefield :D) or in more advanced enemies shields.
I agree with your assesments on the weapons and the sensor systems.
The whole thing about the subspace coridoors is a little wooly. The episode i watched last night showed these coridoors to be fixed points and possibly even one way only - yet they talked about making them in another episode. This makes me wonder if they have some vast machine of 'Sphere builder' origin which actually cuts the rifts for them - or maybe only large vessels can do it. The fact that they intend to make one to earth is confusing if they only work in the expanse?! :D
The "Weapon" it's self; while being an awsome special effect; is incredibly hard to judge the size on. In the epeisode we saw it underwater it looked huge, but then it was next to only small craft and shuttles. I wouldhave to go back and check but there might be a shot of one of the Xindi craft next to the 'test' weapon, but sgain this might not be a full size craft if it was only for testing against a small moon.
Something singularly troubles me about allot of this of course - the Xindi are VERY close to the heart of the Federation and we learn they later join the Federation to fight the sphere builders - YET while some of their technology is 'enterprise' era - technology to make subspace rifts which traverse lightyears in seconds and make weapons which destroy whole planets places these things FAR above even 24th century technology! Warp drive then is just not as fast!
I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment of the Xindi weapon. Sure it's powerful. Sure it's advanced (thanks to the Sphere Builders). I wouldn't consider it too advanced, however, as it was designed by Degra, a 22nd-century Xindi-Primate engineer. I don't think that the Xindi weapon is overpowered; it's a question of Earth's defenses (or lack thereof). A weapon of that size most likely incorporates some Sphere Builder tech, but the majority would likely be of Xindi design and manufacture.
Look at it this way: 20th-century Earth's nuclear arsenal could have destroyed the planet. A few hundred tactically-placed nukes below the planet's surface would almost certainly break the planet apart. Even if the Xindi weapon isn't hyper-advanced, I'm sure that - given a big enough power source and guidance from the Sphere Builders - they could produce a big enough gun to blow a planet into little pieces.
The Xindi do indeed have transporters (as seen in "The Council"); the Reptilians used them to kidnap Hoshi off the Enterprise bridge. I do agree with your assessment of why they board enemy vessels, however; I think they like the act itself as well as the ability to avoid messy space battles (i.e. hard to target a ship latched onto your hull without damaging your own ship).
I think that the Xindi as a whole are probably somewhat more advanced than humanity, not as much as the Vulcans, and in different areas than the Andorians (who seem pretty evenly matched in terms of starships). Remember, though, that even the Andorians wanted to capture the Xindi weapon; maybe the weapon itself is a good example of a prototype super-weapon that even Andorian engineers couldn't reproduce. Or maybe they could, given time, but thought it an easier task just to steal the beta test and reverse-engineer it.
I think we're going to see the Vulcans, Andorians, and maybe Tellarites join Starfleet and the Xindi-Primates, Arboreals, and Aquatics in destroying the weapon near Earth... thus laying the foundation for the Federation (and maybe giving us a Romulan War in Season 4).
mactavish out.
Admitily, i still disagree on whether they have warp technology. Remember, in "Expanse", the probe came through a space vortex and not out of warp drive. But like i said before, we'll find out what the subspace vortex traveling is like.
here's a site with Xindi ships if anyone is interested...
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...indi_ships.htm
Thanks for the ship pics.
I completely understand your views regarding whether the Xindi have warp drive or not. I guess part of the reason that I think they must is this: if they can't travel at warp, why doesn't Enterprise simply retreat at warp when they are attacked?
It seems to me that when the Andorians stole the Xindi weapon prototype, they were pursued briefly (but please correct me if I'm wrong). This says to me that they have warp drive, but perhaps not a very good top speed.
I prefer to think that they have to have the capacity to create a warp drive simply because all of the other races of similar technological capability have warp drive (or something similar). Of course, maybe they don't... maybe that's why they haven't spread beyond the Delphic Expanse. Perhaps they rely simply on their subspace vortex technology and impulse drive systems to get where they're going. If the subspace vortices are created using Xindi technology (as opposed to something created as a result of the spheres' presence), then maybe that is their warp drive... kind of a quantum-tip tunneling drive system that finds microwormholes and forces them open so they're big enough to accomodate one or more vessels. Maybe they are the same natural phenomena exploited by the Vaadwaur from the Delta Quadrant; they did indicate that their subspace corridors stretch throughout the galaxy...
In any case, I'm just going to assume that - if they wanted to - they could build a warp drive system, but that they prefer to use their subspace vortex network to get around when traveling long distances. It was suggested on Voyager that vessels could only use impulse drives inside the subspace corridors, so maybe the Xindi (assuming that these are the same phenomena) intentionally leave warp drives and cores off their vessels for fear of damage or destruction due to a reaction between those technologies and the fabric of subspace.
Well heck... now I'm not sure what to think!
mactavish out.
I'm pretty sure they could but don't want to cause of certain reasons, like they're warp drives are knocked out or they want to face up to them and take some into questioning.Quote:
... I guess part of the reason that I think they must is this: if they can't travel at warp, why doesn't Enterprise simply retreat at warp when they are attacked?
That seems very plausible :)Quote:
In any case, I'm just going to assume that - if they wanted to - they could build a warp drive system, but that they prefer to use their subspace vortex network to get around when traveling long distances
Do you guys perceive any sort of connection between the Xindi and the Suliban? I mean both are being manipulated by temporally-active individuals or groups, both have technologies superior to what they would be able to come up with on their own, and both are changing history based on their interactions with their contacts.
Do you suppose that the Suliban Cabal's future contact is in some way working against the Sphere Builders (besides the obvious)? It's like this whole Temporal Cold War has multiple time traveling (or at least time tampering) groups pitted against each other, but none of their agendas seems clear (except for Daniels', of course).
I know many don't like the whole TCW angle, but just think of the entertainment you can have by introducing even more tampering from other groups (such as the Delta Quadrant's Krenim Imperium or perhaps some deranged El Aurian scientist seeking to "correct" his peoples' history regarding the Borg)! Heck, the fact that the Xindi are being manipulated in order to change the past is not only unsurprising; it's actually quite understandable. I mean look... if you had the ability to alter the timeline, wouldn't you? Particularly if you could have someone else do most of the work? I know that I would. I'd make the changes and keep making changes until I got what I wanted (Annorax be damned!)!
I am seriously considering including the Krenim Imperium in my 22nd-century Series as a nearly incomprehensible foe. I was considering using the Tholians, but the Krenim - with their temporal torpedoes and their time-altering weapon - could certainly make life in the age of Enterprise even more interesting than it already is! I love the Krenim (despite the fact that we know so little about them). I am even considering dropping one of their warships into the Beta Quadrant via a temporally-unstable wormhole but not telling the players who they are or where they came from.
And as far as that goes, I think that the Vaadwaur would also be an entertaining addition. Though most of them are in stasis on their homeworld in the DQ, I think that a colony or two remained active, perhaps hiding their true nature and waiting for the time that their people "rose from the ashes," so to speak.
What does this have to do with the Xindi? Well, this all came up because I was thinking about what might happen if the Vaadwaur (or the Turei) encountered the Xindi in one of the subspace corridors. Maybe the Xindi think that their technology creates the portals, but the reality is that they are the same corridors used by the Vaadwaur and their predecessors.
Maybe a Xindi vessel or group of vessels goes haywire and jumps onto another branch in the system, emerging in the Delta Quadrant. Maybe the same thing happens with a convoy of Turei cargo ships, but they end up in the Expanse. Or maybe a Vaadwaur battle group somehow shifts in time, emerging in the 22nd century Alpha Quadrant rather than the 15th century Delta Quadrant (or wherever). I've always wanted a reason to bring the Vaadwaur into my various Series, and I think that the whole Xindi arc may be the key.
The other idea I had was that the Xindi are actually from the Delta Quadrant, having traveled via subspace vortices into the Delphic Expanse millennia earlier. That could explain their use of the corridors, and perhaps some other details as well.
And thus have the Xindi remade the 22nd century for me... though I still want to stat out their ships. :D
mactavish out.
So what about the two Xindi hand weapons we've seen? The Insectoids used that sonic boom weapon (which kind of reminded me of the one used in the Tek sci-fi series as well as the thing used by Tom Cruise in Minority Report), and the Reptilians used that "glop gun" to splatter stuff on the bulkhead that sprayed several crewmembers with some kind of energy or chemical attack.
If I recall correctly, at least one of the Xindi weapons had it's energy matrix controlled by some sort of worm, thus indicating a biological component to [at least some of] their technology. That same weapon - a Reptilian firearm, I believe - self-destructed when Reed tried to test it or take it apart or adjust it or something.
So how would these items be represented in RPG terms? I think the "glop gun" is pretty simple, but the sonic boom gun still puzzles me. Is it equivalent to a stun setting with knockback, or is it something more?
What kind of hand weapons do you supposed the Aquatics use?
mactavish out.
Super Soaker? :pQuote:
Originally posted by mactavish
What kind of hand weapons do you supposed the Aquatics use?
mactavish,
For the repetilian disruptor rifle with that worm inside that also seems to replicate itself.. i'd say it uses a disruptor setting of 7 and it is unlimited in power. As far as ranges goes, i have to figure that out.
I did come up with some species attributes but still incomplete. Feel free to critique it and make changes, anyone.
*Primates: none
*Abboreal (sp): +1 Prescence, +1 Intellect
*Reptillian: +1 Vitality, +2 Strength, -1 Prescence, -2 Agility, -1 Intellect
Edges- Resolute
*Insectoids: +3 Strength, +2 Agility, -1 Vitality, -1 Prescence, -1 Intellect
Edges-Resolute, Amidexterious
*Aquatics: (?)
Flaws- Weak willed (?), Slow
It seems like all of the Xindi suffer from some degree of paranoia as well, possibly due to the destruction of their homeworld, the influence of the Sphere Builders, and so on.
Are the Reptilians the new Klingons for Enterprise? They seem very determined and unwilling to compromise, show a penchant for combat, and even seem to enjoy hand-to-hand and melee fighting.
How about the Insectoids? I can't really think of another Star Trek race that they resemble too closely. They are a lot like the Klingons, too, in that they shoot first and ask questions if there are any survivors. Their apparent devotion to their young kind of reminds me of the Cardassians, but that's where (in my mind, at least) the similarities end.
The Arboreals are reminiscent of the TOS Tellarites in my mind... but maybe it's just a physical appearance thing. They do, however, seem really into the physical sciences (i.e. chemistry, physics, metallurgy, etc.).
The Primates we've seen are pretty human in their behaviors, so I would guess that using the human species template is probably a good idea.
The Aquatics are kind of a mystery. They are not really like any other alien race we've seen. I guess I'd peg them pretty much the way that you have, but I would like more information before making any real decisions.
The Sphere Builders, while not actually Xindi, are also of interest to me. How do you suppose their paradimensionality would be represented in-game? They seem technically advanced, and they have the ability (technological? psionic?) to view possible future timelines as well as measure their probabilities. How would that work? I guess it's more a plot device than anything, but I would be keen on knowing how to play that ability in an Episode.
mactavish out.
I'm not 100 % sure here - but was that Sphere builder actually in the room or was she some kind of holographic projection?
The indication is that the our space is inhospitable to their physiiology so they are altering it. The guy they recovered from the 'big blob' died soon after they brought hm into our space, so that said she is either a hologram; has some form of personal forcevied device / sybspace device or simply doesn't stay past a few minutes in the presence of the Xindi.
Ii suspect that the Sphere builders ability to see in the future is not unlike the Starfleet timeships. Plus we don't know if the Sphere builders didn't tamper with their OWN past - sending records of the war to their own past - allong with a plan to change the past. They may only be able to send information to the past - because otherwise why didn't they just blow up earth themselves (as the Borg tried to do) - that said perhaps Daniens timepolice can detect spatial rifts and interviene but they can't detect communications easilly - hence they decided to influence the past rather than go there themselves.
I think the problem with the Xindi is in some ways an attempt to answer Startrek critics perceptions of startrek aliens - they are walking steryotypes - such as klingons are practically pressed out of a mould :) Instead we have 5 steryotypes all in one - but at least it helps viewers understand who is arguing with who.. If they allooked human it'd be hard to discern. The Reptilians have made their case plain - The aArboreals and the primates seem to be fairly similar in some ways - but in my estimation the insectoids are just as much of a mystery as the Aquatics.
While the insectoids seem to err on the side of battle with the Reptillians - it could only be because they have a common (percieved) enemy - they might often fight tooth and nail because they are both warlike. We haven't really seen them except to invade the ship allongside the Reptilians - I suspect this is a budget thing but they may be more than just reptilian clones in CG :)
I would say that the Xindi have to have been the most advanced species in the Delphic expanse because they seem an unlikelly choice otherwise - they fight with each other too much to have been chosen if there was an option B - Of course alternatelly the Sphere builders might have several plans up their sleves and seem to use their internal arguments to manipulate them as a whole so that might be the other reason. Reason 3 might be simply that the Xindi will be in the Federation in the future - perhaps without their help and without the Xindi in Starfleet they may not beable to defeat the Sphere builders... Items of technology the Xindi have might be essential to technology we've seen in the future for the Federation and it could all potentially change - the wedge they are driving in now COULD be a FAR more insidious weapon against the Federation than the uber weapon it's self!
Xinidi Reptiliian ship has a crew complement of 22
How many bodies did they find aboard the Xindi-Insectoid vessel in "Hatchery"?
mactavish out.
I don't know..i've seen Hatchery once. But all i know so far is that the Xindi Repetillian ship had 22 aboard before it got whipped by Degra and Enterprise. Another thing about the Reptillian ship is that it was referred to as a "scout". But i m not sure if they mean the ship was scouting or if it was scout-class vessel. Any ideas?
For those that watched "Countdown," did you see that Aquatic ship? HOLY SEA COW!
Sorry if I'm giving anything away, but Enterprise fit in it's freakin' shuttle bay and even looked like a shuttle when it was launched! How big is that? HOW BIG?!
mactavish out.
SC: I think that the Reptilian vessel is either a warship or a cruiser, but unless it's a really big Heavy Scout, I'd guess that it was smiply "scouting around."
mactavish out.
Don't want to spoil anything... so
That Aquatic ship stomped whatever it shot at, I know that much. As for size, it looked like it might be almost Galaxy-sized. I mean, all we could say when it showed up was, "Wow.... big ship!!!" :D
Warning: Possible Spoilers
So here's what we've learned this week:
* The Primates' and Arboreals' vessels (Size 3-5) are possessed of average armaments and STL propulsion systems
* The Reptilians and Insectoids are "belligerent" and [consequently] heavily armed; the Insectoids seem to prefer smaller (Size 3) well-armed fast attack vessels, and the Reptilians are more interested in larger (Size 5) cruisers - slower but with more potent weapons
* The Xindi use beam weapons (plasma, phase cannon, particle beam, laser, or something completely new), but the Insectoids seem to use pulses of energy rather than beams; they do not appear to make use of torpedoes or missiles of any kind
* The Aquatics build extremely (Size ~9-12) large capitol ships and modest (Size 5-6) cruisers
* The Aquatics' ships are apparently the most heavily-armed of all Xindi vessels, but they are slow (i.e. powerful like whales, but balanced with lower speed)
* The Xindi appear to not have warp drive, instead relying on their ability to generate subspace vortices; they use impulse drive to pass through these corridors
* From the battle scenes we can see that the Xindi do not have shields
We learned that the Arboreals are uncomfortable around water. We also learned that the Sphere Builders are capable of directly controling the spheres from their transdimensional realm. Unsurprisingly, we learned that nobody can trust the Reptilians.
Finally, we've learned that the Reptilians use a neural parasite - injected directly into the neocortex - to alter prisoner behavior and make them more receptive to direction/easier to control; the parasites are apparently harmful, causing progressively worsening neural trauma and (presumably) death.
Has anyone considered that the vortices are dependent on the spheres?
Btw, doesn't vortices remind you of the quantum slipstreams in VOY?
I have indeed considered that the Spheres have something to do with the Xindi FTL subspace corridors, but I can't imagine what. Perhaps they weaken space to the point that the Xindi are able to open temporary wormholes.
My guess is that if they have anything to do with the spheres or the Guardians, it's that the Sphere Builders taught the Xindi how to utilize that technology, but that it does not actually have anything to do with the Spheres. If they did, then how could the Xindi use them to travel to the Sol system (where there are no spheres)?
mactavish out.
Yes that's one of the reasons that I find them a bit overpowered - they are rather TOO like slipstream ! :D
Anyway it does make me think though.. Perhaps the subspace strands that the spheres make make it easier to make the coridoors - basically making space already weak there to open the rift.. however their drives can make them without - only it's just allot harder.. this makes for an interesting possible game mechanic - basically within the expanse the Xindi are faster than Enterprise - but without they are slower.. once they have left the weakened subspace area it's harder work for their engines to work at all - hence possibly explaining why future starships don't / can't use it. it DOES have the advantage that starships can't be detected in this era - but then maybe by the TOS era with more advanced subspace sensors they can detect them - rendering any advantage moot as they operate slower than conventional warp drive anywhere expect within the delphic expanse ??