What the F$%^ing H^&L!
I mean I like Alternative history but what was that! especially considering it had been a really good episode.
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What the F$%^ing H^&L!
I mean I like Alternative history but what was that! especially considering it had been a really good episode.
My jaw fell to the floor. Wow.
Next season is going to be interesting.:D
That was one hell of a slam-bang ending, but what the golly-gosh-darn happened???
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OTOH, P-51's firing on the shuttlepod was pretty cool!:D
That's pretty much what I thought.Quote:
Originally posted by Eric R.
What the F$%^ing H^&L!
My question is: if the time is what it appears to be, how did Tucker and Mayweather get so close to SF Bay and not be able to see the difference in the city?
Who said it's the 1940's, maybe something held us back technologically and it's 2152, maybe an alien invasion? :D
I think the script writers have been visiting the evil game masters' support group, because..... this was truly evil......:D :D :D :D
ALIEN NAZIS?!?!? WWII!?!?!
LOOSEY, YOU GOT A LOT OF SPLAININ TO DO!
WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
You took the words out of my mouth...
Was that a Reman????
I think a lot fans thought that when the producers said the Xindi story line was ending that the Temporal Cold War storyline was also ending as if the two were integral to one another. Obviously, they weren't. And clearly, the TCW storyline has only just begun. . . . Oh, boy!Quote:
Originally posted by Eric R.
What the F$%^ing H^&L!
I mean I like Alternative history but what was that! especially considering it had been a really good episode.
". . . His only guide on this journey is Crewman Daniels, a traveler from the future that only Archer can see and hear. . . Trapped in the past, Captain Archer finds himself having to put right what once went wrong. . . ."
:D :D :D
i think it wasQuote:
Originally posted by Space_Cadet
You took the words out of my mouth...
Was that a Reman????
or maby they started reuseing aliens like they reuseing ships:)
Haven't seen it yet, won't until Sunday in my area. Uhm, is the above a good reaction (ie a result a mess with head type ending) or a bad reaction (like Poison Ivy?)Quote:
Originally posted by Eric R.
What the F$%^ing H^&L!
I missed the episode because I was flying to Fort Polk, Louisiana to toss more paratroopers out the assend of the ol' Herkypig. When I realized I had forgotten to set my VCR to tape it, I just shrugged. After all, it's only ENT, nothing worth getting excited about, right? OTOH, now that Cmdr Powers has mentioned P-51s, maybe this will be an interesting show. Classic warbirds always make stories better. Guess I'll have to catch the rerun Sunday night.
I'm sorry, but even though they may try to pawn this off as an alternate 2154 (can't believe they quoted the wrong year), I have to believe otherwise. How could technology (not just the planes - that field hospital looked about the same era) be so completely retarded that it looks exactly the same after 2 centuries? Even so, any mass alien invasion in the recent past should have left some traces that could be seen from orbit, and my original question about changes in San Francisco is still valid.Quote:
Originally posted by Antonsb214
Who said it's the 1940's, maybe something held us back technologically and it's 2152, maybe an alien invasion? :D
I think the script writers have been visiting the evil game masters' support group, because..... this was truly evil......:D :D :D :D
They're not in the 22nd century anymore, and if they try to say different without a damned good explanation, I will lose any respect for the show that it gained this season.
Ah, was that you up in that C-130 the other day? Thought there was something odd about it:DQuote:
Originally posted by Sarge
I missed the episode because I was flying to Fort Polk, Louisiana to toss more paratroopers out the assend of the ol' Herkypig. When I realized I had forgotten to set my VCR to tape it, I just shrugged. After all, it's only ENT, nothing worth getting excited about, right? OTOH, now that Cmdr Powers has mentioned P-51s, maybe this will be an interesting show. Classic warbirds always make stories better. Guess I'll have to catch the rerun Sunday night.
The Mustangs don't appear until the very end of the story. This is part of that enigmatic ending you're reading about here. The scene has the shuttlepod headed down to San Francisco to find out why Starfleet isn't responding on any frequencies. They see the Golden Gate, etc., below them and suddenly "Pank, Pank, Pank," sounds come from something hitting the hull. Draw back to see North American Aviation P-51D Mustangs (in USAAF WWII livery) firing at the shuttlepod in a head-on pass. WTF?
I refuse to reveal anything other than this scene, Sarge. Try to catch the Sunday repeat if you can. A very strange ending for the Xindi arc.:cool:
P-51D's was too cool. This makes for a good series finale. What I thought was a high point. Andorians, Andorians, Andorians.
You da'Adnorian Shran!
Go Blue Skin!
Yeah, the Andorians kicked ass!!! Shran was a badass!!! :D
About the Reman, I think it would be a perfect fit cause then you can tie in the Romulan involvment in the TCW. Finally, the TCW kicks into full gear. :cool:
Hrmm, Sam.....er Archer trapped in the past where only a hologram of a man from the future can talk to him...
Space Nazis....
And how is it that Enterprise was the *ONLY* ship of the entire human fleet orbiting earth. Not even a single freighter orbiting, no picket ship, orbital defense satellites ..... are we to believe that they all reached the earth of the past.... well no, as the station was there. But I find it beyond belief that Earth lacked even a single starship or weapon in orbit. Honestly, earth knew that the weapon was on it's way... that just made be very angry with the writers.
And the Aquatics brought the Enterprise to Earth, so is it the past or the present? and are we to believe that WWII is still ongoing 200 years on? argh....
And why do aliens in the past always have to have sided with the Nazis? and always the SS ? is there like a huge wardrobe of nazi ss uniforms somewhere on the Paramount lot?
Argh...
But the very idea that Scot Bakula would willingly reprise his Quantam Leap role, well the show really jumped the shark there ....
How to fix this mess? Bring in Gary Seven, make this entire timeline how the Dark Mirror Terran Empire was founded, anything that ties this rambling mess of a "metaplot" back into the continuity, or what's left of it. Or just hit the giant warp speed VCR switch and have Pam wake up and find Bobby in the shower ...
Was going to mention this in my other post but decided against it so I wouldn't be accused of being too negative. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Atlirith
Hrmm, Sam.....er Archer trapped in the past where only a hologram of a man from the future can talk to him...
Actually, I think that this is exactly what happened. As I recall, the station wasn't there, that was why Reed made mention that it had been blown up. (Of course there should have been a debris field still in evidence, but I was only paying half attention and maybe they did remark on the lack of one)Quote:
Originally posted by Atlirith
are we to believe that they all reached the earth of the past.... well no, as the station was there.
The simple answer to this is that no one likes Nazis. That way the Nazis can do all sorts of dastardly things and we cheer when the good guys vaporize them. They are the perfect villains. In many cases, we try to adapt Nazis symbollically for bad guys -- like Starwars Stormtroopers, Micronaut Dog Soldiers, TOS Klingons, TNG Romulans, the Lizard aliens in "V" (the name of the series itself heightens this), the list goes on and on.Quote:
Originally posted by Atlirith
And why do aliens in the past always have to have sided with the Nazis? and always the SS ? is there like a huge wardrobe of nazi ss uniforms somewhere on the Paramount lot?
Here, they are just going to the source material. Plus, which side do you think the Remans would be on exactly? I have thought that the shadowy figure backing the Suliban might have been the Federation of the future trying to right the timeline (such as by, screwing up first contact with the Klingons as was reported in TOS), but the Nazis are such an archetype for evil that it would have required a lot of dancing around to justify a Reman involvement with the Allies (which OTOH actually might have demonstrated some writing skill).
Off topic, One of the more interesting ways Nazis were symbollically linked to a science-fictional government was in Starship Troopers (the movie, not the novel, which is a whole separate issue). I'm not even sure it was deliberate; so much of the movie was a bastardization of the premises brought up in the book which took an entirely different course of thought. It might have been what the adaptors actually thought was being said there (gag). Of course In Starship Poopers (as one of my gaming buddies calls it) it was the 'good guys' that looked hauntingly like Nazis, something that sent a few movie critics into overload. I recall two critics on one of the morning talk shows that went so far as to sympathize with the bugs because of it; they seemed deeply disturbed.
While I didn't like what the movie did to the source material generally this (admittedly hamhanded) symbolic association was at least midly interesting because it brought up a lot of questions. When pushed to the wall, would we adopt that mentality? What kinds of trends today (the use of slick advertising and a focus of image over substance for instance) do we see that sends us in that direction? that kind of thing. The only other good thing about the movie was Clancy Brown as Zim.
Ecch. I have loooong been dreading this one. I kind of think that this is the only way to restore continuity...Quote:
Originally posted by Atlirith
Or just hit the giant warp speed VCR switch and have Pam wake up and find Bobby in the shower ...
To be fair, having Enterprise (or the main characters ship) as the only vessel in orbit over what should be a very crowded sky is not exactly unusual... All the 1701's did it, as did the Defiant...Quote:
Originally posted by Atlirith
And how is it that Enterprise was the *ONLY* ship of the entire human fleet orbiting earth. Not even a single freighter orbiting, no picket ship, orbital defense satellites ..... are we to believe that they all reached the earth of the past.... well no, as the station was there. But I find it beyond belief that Earth lacked even a single starship or weapon in orbit. Honestly, earth knew that the weapon was on it's way... that just made be very angry with the writers.
The few exceptions had been the Movies (Motion Picture and First Contact), and the last few seconds of Voyager...
So we should at least ease off on this one point alone?
Where does it say this guy was a Reman? I don't think he was. Maybe I just didn't see it properly.
Actually, I believe most agree that the original Klingons were suppose to be Russian Comies and not Nazis and the Romulans were suppose to be Chinese. But other than this little nitpick I totally agree with what you said However there is some intersting stuff I came across years ago that said that Heinlien actually admired Juan Peron and if you look at the Argintine army in those years you would swear that it was the Wehmacht come alive again, as well as many uniforms of South American militaries so the "Teutonic" military style uniform is staying with us.Quote:
Originally posted by Publius
In many cases, we try to adapt Nazis symbollically for bad guys -- like Starwars Stormtroopers, Micronaut Dog Soldiers, TOS Klingons, TNG Romulans, the Lizard aliens in "V" (the name of the series itself heightens this), the list goes on and on.
As far as the alien at the end being a Reman, it may or may not be that particular race; there are a lot of similarities and a few differences (eyes, extra wrinkles in face etc.). I lifted the following image off of a Trek BBS somewhere where they are shedding blood over the issue...
I dinked with that image a bit to help bring it out some more. The colors are no longer accurate, but you can make out more detail. This was just a few seconds work with Irfanview, so I'm sure some of you photoshop gurus can do much better.
Anyone have a pic of a Reman to make a comparison?
Not the best Reman picture but notice the larger ears and the lack of solid red eyes comared to the alien on Enterprise.
True. But you also have to consider that Klingons since TMP has variations to their look as well. He maybe an elderly Reman hence the wrinkles plus other factors like evolution, like a 30th century variation.Quote:
Originally posted by Publius
As far as the alien at the end being a Reman, it may or may not be that particular race; there are a lot of similarities and a few differences (eyes, extra wrinkles in face etc.)....
While that is possible, I would probably wager that it is an entirely different species. A species that we will discover more about next fall.
It had to come, I just knew it….. I mean every Star Trek series which you can’t take all that serious has them...
TOS had them…
TNG did not
DS9 did not
VOY had them..
ENT of course had to have them… :rolleyes:
I take TOS and Voyager quite seriously.
I'm afraid I tend to agree with At on the lone ship in the sky. I don't mind there being only one ship around when there's nothing important going on at the homestead, or when every other ship in the Fleet is scattered across the galaxy studying temporal and/or gaseous anomalies. But given the importance of this event, given the fact that Earth had already been caught blindsided once, it would have made some sense to park something more than a defenseless station in orbit. This is the mother world. The bad guys aren't there to knock out global communications or dump a flaming sack of dog poo on Starfleet's front porch. They're there to destroy the planet. Having no ships or defenses set up made it look like Earth was really concerned with other things.Quote:
Originally posted by Dan Gurden
To be fair, having Enterprise (or the main characters ship) as the only vessel in orbit over what should be a very crowded sky is not exactly unusual... All the 1701's did it, as did the Defiant...
The few exceptions had been the Movies (Motion Picture and First Contact), and the last few seconds of Voyager...
So we should at least ease off on this one point alone?
I have a question about Daniels. Did he ever give a reason for not directly interfering, even though the Sphere Builders clearly did not operate under the same restriction? I admit, I have not seen every one of this season's episodes, so maybe I missed the explanation. it just seemed odd to me, since Archer is supposed to be so vital, and by extension, since saving Earth is also vital, that he wouldn't take some steps to at least counter the interference the Sphere Builders engaged in.
I had my problems with this episode...this surprised me since I have liked the previous few episodes immensely. I was expecting a clean sweep of cool, in other words. The Andorians were quite timely, and when I saw them show up, I was pleased. Was also pleased about the way Archer chose to take out the Reptilian commander. I'm not sure if I like T'Pol's increasing bouts with emotion, but I probably would have written her the same way. And it was good to see her finally trying to bond with the pooch.
As usual, I feel that Billingsley turned in the strongest performance. I recall hating the doc when I first watched the show, but now, he's easily become my favorite character.
Strictly Speaking
Except for the eye color, they look a lot alike to me. Which, of course, means nothing, one way or the other.
Both have upturned, broad noses with prominent nostrils. Both have prominent, bony circumorbital ridges. Skin tone is very similar. The Enterprise alien's mouth is closed, so we can't compare dentition.
If he is a Reman, just imagine the possibilty of getting closer to Earth-Romulan war. It would be so badass!!! :D
Ok....
So, the Aquatics droped them back in the middle of WWII?
Wouldn't they have been better off going home on their own?:D
A reman? Could be. Perhaps from a TCW faction where they picked a better plot for the last movie, so the Reman's took over the Romulan gov't. Now they trap Archer in the past to ensure their dominace (I know that idea is full of paradoxes, but since when did that ever stop a good time travel story).
I can't believe they didn't notice the lack of Starfleet tech/buildings. And wouldn't their sensors detect lots of EM/Radio transmissions, instead of Sub-space signals?
Oh, the main reason, IMHO, for the WWII timeslip is the dedication of the Memorial to "The Greatest Generation", which happens this weekend.
Well without having seen the episode - based on the fact that they were immediatelly able to tell in a recent episode that 'the stars have moved' they should have been able to tell the date!
The Remans being involved in the temporal war does make sense of sorts, but then it just kind of gells badly with respects to the convenient overlap of the 'sphere builders' to the Romulans - as really they would have no affiliation (or are not likelly too??)
I can see a future where the repercussions of the Reman revolt would make the Romulans more likelly to allow them in their military, but the problem would be ... why would the Remans want to destroy earths timeline - Shinzon was ... Human.. so if you remove earth / change the timeline then shinzon would not exist and the whole Romulan nature would change - they would most likelly STILL be slaves!
I can also see the Romulan empire basically having consumed earth and eventually Vulcan if the Federation had not existed... well we shall have to wait and see what all of this means !
I'm guessing here, just speculating. This fall we can all see how wrong I am and laugh.
The Xindi weapon created a temporal anomaly taking Archer back to 1944 (P-51D entered service in 1944) Doesn't explain how the ship got sent back. OR Daniels sent Archer into the past to save him, some alien involved in the TCW detected it and went back after him, and Daniels sent Enterprise back to save him. The alien is helping the Nazis to destroy Earths future, that's why the time travellers always help the Nazis. Imagine if the Nazis survive to get into space with the racial purity thing intact. They would fight genocidal wars against everyone they met. It could Balkanize the whole quadrant. It could also unite the whole quadrant against the common threat from humans, allowing a much different Federation to form. Hmmm, I feel a campaign seed coming on...:D
I agree that the coolest thing they could do is bring in the Romulans.
The finale was pretty cool but the last few minutes did have me going "WTF". Not to say I hated it, it just was pretty unexpected.
Overall it was a satisfactory end but they needed more personal loss in the final battle. After all the death since "Azati Prime", they really needed have the stakes notched up again. To be honest, I would have liked to seen Enterprise almost completely destroyed and that the Aquatics returned Enterprise to Earth because they couldn't return under their own power...
...but that wouldn't match up well with final scenes...
Just out of curiousity, was Februrary 14th (which is supposedly the date in which the finale took place) have any siginificance during WW2?
Dunno. Feb. 14 eventsQuote:
Originally posted by Space_Cadet
Just out of curiousity, was Februrary 14th (which is supposedly the date in which the finale took place) have any siginificance during WW2?
Strictly Speaking
I'm trying to figure out a Valentine's Day reference. Hmmmm.
It doesn't have to be a consequence of the Xindi weapon at all. It could be a strike from some other faction in the TCW. It could be a lot of things. We'll just have to wait and see...