Decipher Rant -- The Narrators Screen !!

Ok... I'd like to start a new thread where we each get to post a single beef with Decipher's implementation of the LOTR...

I'll start with the "Narrator's Screen Rip-Off".

Okay, I'm really pissed that so many erratas and alternate rule systems have sprouted up for LOTR... simply because in most cases these alternate rules make sense, and it seems that Decipher did not really bother to play test...

I can't for the love of Eru believe that they got such basic things as the weapon statistics wrong! How could you screw something up that's so essential to an rpg's mechanics... almost everyone agrees on some form of a weapon damage alternate to what Decipher published.

I especially feel ripped off about this, when I spend $20 on a Narrators screen, and the charts are wrong! What the hell is the screen any good for if the charts aren't any good... I end up having to tape an errata to my $20 glossy, colour screen.... oh well (at least the pic on the back of Minas Tirith is pretty cool).

rant... done....

Well, there's more to the screen than just the damage charts. But overall I agree with you.

The game could very well use a second edition. But the odds of that happening are abysmal...

Okay. I'm going to step up fairly quickly on this one.

Yes, we know that many of us are unhappy with Decipher's handling of the license. Yes, mistakes were made with some of the products. But do we really need to rehash the Decipher-bashing of past couple years? Do we? I think not.

However, I'll just ask that you try to keep things civil. If this gets out of hand or becomes a repetition of various "Decipher sucks!" threads from the past, I will close it down.

Doug,

I own alot of the LOTR RPG Material. First I am going to point out the great things you have done. The RPG system is flexable, synergistic, and allows for more role-playing and less mechanics like other systems left unnamed. The production is slick, colorful and useful. The shortcomings I have found is the repedative nature of some of the material especially the source books. Last of the darts is the product scoming to market in a timely manner(i.e. your own deadlines mentioned at decipher. Other than that I am a loyal customer and continue to await the rest of the game line to come into my eager hands. I guess we could all sharpshoot decipher but in the end, I am happy with the product. It is a pitty you can't give the same treatment to the Hobbit and earlier ages of midddle earth.

I'm not a LOTR player. For sword-and-sorcery fantasy, I play d20 D&D. For CODA, I'm strictly a Star Trek player.

You don't see as many complaints regarding CODA from Star Trek gamers. I think the problem stems from the fact that the CODA system was pretty much built around the Star Trek milieu and then retro-fitted to be a "universal" system that Decipher could "tack on" to whatever licenses they happen to acquire.

First, Doug is Decipher's Net Rep -- the voice of Decipher to the players concerning rules, updates, and the like ... he has nothing to do with producing LOTR products (he did work on a Star Trek book if I recall), so he's not really a part of that "you".

Second, there could've been products dealing with The Hobbit as DEC's license includes that book, but apparently it hadn't been gotten around to yet.

Third, DEC nor New Line nor Tolkien Enterprises has the license to use any material that is in the histories and the Silmarillion, that also goes for material listed in the appendices that is also listed in the Silmarillion or histories.

This means there would be a very finite amout of material for the writers to work with, my estimate is somewhere about 10-15, 20 at most, books and if all went well (2-3 mos per pub w/o stalling from licensors), that'd mean RPG products only for 2.5-4.5 yrs +/- 0.5 yrs. At that point either give up producing items or they'd have to create CODA 2.0 for the game and proceed to re-write all the books and supplements to support the new version, which I'm quite sure many players would bemoan as they do for DnD (3 to 3.5).

The reason I don't think you see a lot of complaints about the system is that Star Trek isn't all that combat intensive and most of the gripes are from the PC combat and some from Mass Combat. In Star Trek, the main gripes about mechanics I hear are about Starship Combat, but they aren't all that many because people either work around them and/or rarely use combat at all in the game.

Star Trek.hummm ...anyway ..... Gandalf old boy you are full of surprises... what have you got in your pocket? I have got the stick of gum .."it has phenominal cosmic power ( +1 on all persude and communication roles)... and gives fresh breath" LOL Thanks for the input .. you obviously have a great store of knowleadge about the game and its surrounding legal affairs.

Tips is hat and shambles off
Wilson

What I know comes from Matt Colville, one of the game's designers. He's posted what I've just said a number of times on RPG.net and at DEC msgbrds in the past. Sorry if I came on a little short in my repsonse, wasn't my intention, just shooting for brevity in my answer. I've also been around the game since the beginning too. I was even one of the lucky ones to get a CRB at the 2002 Gen Con (just moved to the Milwaukee area the previous April).

From what I've heard and know:
1) RPG's aren't all that profitable in the long run without a lot of material to draw from and/or little to no restrictions from licensors if there are any.
2) LOTR has a very limited license and has been strictly enforced since the debacle with ICE's MERP.
3) LOTR posted actually fairly big numbers but didn't compete well enough for DEC's tastes against WOTC and DnD.
4) DEC obtained the license from both New Line and Tolkien Enterprises and so approval for publications was lengthy with much run-around I'm sure.
5) Star Trek has had similar problems I believe with Paramount/Viacom and that property had been hurting of late since really about the time DEC got the license for the RPG from LUG.
6) There are rumors abound with what is to happen to the line such as, the most popular at this time, DEC is in negotiations with Games Workshop to subcontract the RPG (though who knows what that'd mean to Star Trek). There are also rumblings from players and posters on the DEC that the games should've used a bastardized d20 system (which I don't agree with) along with wanting ways to convert from CODA to d20 (don't agree with this either).

To me, it doesn't matter what happens. CODA is by far one of the most flexible and easiest to use systems I've come across that IMO rightly focuses just as much on the character from chargen to gamin as it does on mechanics. I've also said this before, I will continue to support the games myself through the webzines and BSR as long there is interest.

GOB

Why do I feel like I just tasted a bad hair ball. You said the evil word. Shame on you. Bastarded d20 ...what the warg! to continue I am, like you very comfortable with the CODA. For the same reasons you have already stated. I am hoping after working with CODA some more I will be able to build a CODA RPG for Michael Moorcock's Elric Saga. Well to peas in a pod on this one. Now if I can ever get as slick with my production like the guys at Hall of Fire and some of the other talanted fans here I might pull it off. Mind you it is not the money, I am in it for the creative process.

Wilson

Well I hope my CODA BSR can help you along the way.

hehe but no one said the money wouldn't hurt ;)

GOB

I do believe it will. I just need to have the time to work on it. Money .... well let me try my hand at it for free first and if I have any talent then maybe ...

I Think universial has the rights to Elric anyway. Chaosium is unable to produce anymore RPG material.

Wilson

Quote:

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Originally posted by GandalfOfBorg
I've also been around the game since the beginning too. I was even one of the lucky ones to get a CRB at the 2002 Gen Con (just moved to the Milwaukee area the previous April).

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Heh. Same here. I even had to wait for the second shipment after the first one sold out so quick... :)

Feanorgil,

As I said, I have no problem with a civil discussion about the game. I was just trying to head the usual run of Decipher-bashing that seems to crop up in this kind of thread. :)

And to confirm something GoB said, I was a playtester on the Trek game, compiled the official support docs for both Trek and LOTR, and did the rough map sketches for the sorely missed Worlds book for Trek, but otherwise I'm just a PR guy. I provide answers when I have them and pester TPTB for them when I don't. :)

come have a drink.

Wilson

Quote:

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Originally posted by Feanorgil
come have a drink.

Wilson

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Sounds great. :)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Burke
As I said, I have no problem with a civil discussion about the game. I was just trying to head the usual run of Decipher-bashing that seems to crop up in this kind of thread. :)

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No bashing intended. However, the game has certain flaws which are glaring. I will not go into them here, as this ground has been much covered elsewere.

Those flaws cannot be handwaved aside just because there are tons of errata and house-rules available for download, or because there is terrific fan-work being made. To quote Ineti, it's entirely possible to have "Bad Wrong Fun" with the game as it is, out-of-the-box (as I certainly have), but still, the game "as-is" is just chock-full of inconsistencies.

I'll grant that it does a more than fair job in presenting Middle-earth and Middle-earth role-playing, and that's why I have never quit the game since it came out.

OK, so if this message sounds like a rant or a round of Decipher-bashing... it isn't. Just a complaint from a loyal customer ;)

Well, to be fair, the whole point of errata and rules corrections is to help smooth over any errors or inconsistencies. And I have yet to find a game that didn't have them (Have you seen the FAQ for the D&D3E core books? It dwarfs (no pun intended ;)) what we put together for LOTR and Trek put together...).

Maybe it's because of the subject matter, but I just don't see why there are so many complaints about LOTR when games that seem much more popular have just as many (if not more!) mistakes.

Sorry. Just a pet peeve of mine....

Agreed!

Maybe it's a matter of perspective... but I can use D&D's 3rd Ed. rules out of the box just fine. The huge errata made some things smoother, sure, but the mechanics was already pretty solid.

Only I don't like D&D. Rather, I don't have patience when it comes to running D&D games anymore. I do respect the solid ruleset, but that's about it. Must be the mathematician in me...

My own pet peeve is that I was hoping LOTR RPG to be on par with D&D in terms of rules cohesiveness and miles ahead in mood and atmosphere.

So I'spose half of the job done is better than no job done, but still...

I love LotR from Decipher, and agree that there would be some good from a second edition. I also understand that just BECAUSE I would love to purchase a leather bound copy of the rules 2.0 or whatever you would call it doesn't mean that there is a market for it. Between HoF and the forums I have found there are quite a few places that offer great support.

I also play the ST game and am quite satisfied with it. Yes, I have my gripes about both systems but the system provides such a great place to Role Play that it's knocked d20 out of the water for us except for our Stargate game - which has modified rules and is a Spycraft engine if you will.

Thanks guys from Decipher. I would hope to see you all gainfully employed and producing material for me, as most of what I have seen before wasn't half bad.

If anyone wants to see bad, pick up a copy of Babylon 5 - those folks didn't even use a spel checker!

I'm even more saddened by the fate of both Dec franchises that Eden has sold ALL the first printing run of the BtVS Corebook - 15 000 copies, boys and girls, and they're putting out a revised version with integrated errata and new material.

So, it tends to prove franchise RPGs are successful. And I'd think Trek and LotR have an even bigger fanbase than Buffy, for @#!?'s sake!

Man that would be an Item to have. Although I could always just have my LOTRrpg core rules book rebound in leather. Humm there is a thought .
- wilson

PS: Today is Pearl Harbor Day. I ask that if you are comfortable with it that you take a moment of silence.