Other players in the Dominion War

I apologize, it's 2:00 AM local, and I'm having no luck with sleeping...but...
Out of shear curiosity a question for the masses;

During the Dominion War, what was your status of the many lesser governments around the Alpha/Beta Quadrants.

We know from canon that the Federation, Klingon Empire, Romulan Empire, and Bajorian Provisional eventually opposed the Dominion. While the Dominion had the Cardassian Union, Breen Confederacy, and Son'a in their camp by the end of the war.

To the best of my knowledge the Tholian Holdfast remained neutral throughout the war, as did the Ferengi Alliance - officially.

That leaves the canon governments of Acamarian, Barzan, Caldonian, Chalnoth, First Federation, Gorn Commonwealth, J'Naii, Lurian, Lysia, Melkotian, Mizarian, Pakled, Satarran, Sheliak Corporate, Talarian, Tamarian (A.K.A. Children of Tamar), Tzenkethi, and Zalkon Unity. Now not all of these governments would be able to help out equally (Pakled war fleets?, Lysia technology?), nor are all of them on good terms with either side. However all had reason to be involved in the defense against the Dominion.

Thoughts, comments, Phoenix go to sleep please...

My guess is that most of them would wait till it becomes clear who will win the war and then join the side of the victor. Many of these Species have little large offensive capabilities or none at all and by and large lag behind the Federation in terms of technologie.
Comitting any of their ships against the Dominion would constitute suicide as it is clear that the Federation looses many more advanced ships.
My bet is that they try to stay neutral as the Romulans at first did, and later join the side they think would benefit most of their own goals.

Many of these Races are not on good terms with the Federation. The Tzenkethi fought a war against the Federation for exampel and the Sheliak Corporate views everyone else inferior to themselves... so I doubt they would enter the conflict on behalf of the Federation or the Dominion. Both races have strong tendencies to isolate themselves.
Even if any of these would decide to support the Alliance against the Dominion they would at best be tasked to guard duties in remote sectors, aid the Alliance with raw materials and so on...
But I doubt they would be any great help against the dominion, as most are really lesser players on the astropolitical board. :) :) :)

In my Dominion War campaign the minor galactic powers allowed for a LOT pf PC diplomacy. For example, on the Gorn/Federation border, the Federation was very interested in moving ships, static defences, sensor bouys, etc from the Gorn border to use those assets against the Dominion. The PCs job was to try to negotiate a mutual disarmament along that frontier. While the short-term benefits for the Federation were clear, the PCs had to sell the long-term benefits to the Gorn (after the war, the Federation, being bigger and richer, can afford more defences. Gorn would get a bigger benefit proportionately with the resources they would both save. Assuming the Federation could be trusted of course).

That was early in the campaign. Not too infrequently afterwards, the PCs had to deal with having less border sensor bouys, less redundancy in comm relays, etc for other adventures in that sector. All in support of the war effort far on the other side of the Federation.

Let me see what I can remember from my campaign notes...

Acamarian, - Unknown - probably neutral, they have enough problems.

Barzan, - Unknown, probably neutral

Caldonian, - Neutral

Chalnoth, - Dominion ally

First Federation, - missing entirely

Gorn Commonwealth, - Fed ally - common ground at Cestus III

J'Naii, - neutral

Lurian, ostensibly neutral, but some citizens active pro-Fed partisans

Lysia, - Fed ally, but not particularly helpful.

Melkotian, - neutral

Mizarian, - very neutral

Pakled, - run away!

Satarran, - Dominion ally

Sheliak Corporate, - Neutral, Islolationist, but holding favorable impression of Dominion (all that non-humanoid imposition of order)

Talarian, - Neutral unless attacked

Tamarian (A.K.A. Children of Tamar), - "Barga and Melnek when Kiram arrived"

Tzenkethi, - Neutral, hostile to everybody.

Zalkon Unity - unconcerned.

And of course, my game had the Kzinti Patriarchy, which joined the Alliance after the PC's sent as diplomatic envoys acquitted themselves well in battle against a superior Dominion force. (Although having the first Kzin to join Starfleet on board probably helped)

I have to disagree about the Gorn. In the instruction manual for Star Trek Bridge Commander PC game it states the Gorn allied with the Dominion.

Computer games are hardly a reliable source. Although their disposition during the War wasn't directly dealt with, several episodes mentioned Federation/Gorn relations in the Cestus III area and strongly hinted that the Gorn are a Federation ally.

I dont think that the S'ona were ever allied with the Dominion. the closest link is their production of Ketracel White, but that was during the Dominion War, whilst allied to the Federation in t6he annexe of the Ba'ku homeworld.

And after the events of that movie, the remaining S'ona would have likely either rejoined the Ba'ku, or gone rogue (I agree the Dominion would be a likely direction, but so would be the Orion Syndicate, or Mercenary work.

On that subject though. We do know that the Orion Syndicate allied itself to the Dominion, but this is a seperate entity from the official Orion government (I know semantics), who would have likely remained 'neutral'.

Another Gorn source is the comic book 'The Gorn Crisis' also taking place during the Dominion War, where it leads from friendly political ties through to a closer alliance.

And not forgetting the Ferengi, who were seen on screen taking an officially neutral stand, but offering a slightly favourable deal to the Alpha Quadrant alliance.

I just figured since Star Trek products are given the okay by Paramount, that someone ae Paramount had to have looked at the manual. I also figured since Star Trek veteran writer D.C. Fontana worked on the game, that it could be considered canon.

Well, you know what assumption does, don't you?

"everyone knows when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you and umption." -- Samuel L Jackson, "The Long Kiss Goodnight."

:D

I guess in this case the position of the Gorn would depend on the tastes of the narrator.

And First of Two, I made a good assumption, being that the game was written by a Star Trek writter and approved by Paramount.

And P.S.
I tend to go by the registry the game has for the Sovereign, NX-74(I don't remember the rest.)

Canon consists of one thing and one thing only - aired versions of the live-action episodes and movies. Books, games, TAS, comics and everything else is licensed, but not canon. I really don't know why this seems so difficult for people to grasp. Approved by some mindless drone in the bowels of the marketing department of Viacom does not mean it's canon. As has been pointed out by Sternbach and Okuda in the forewards to their own books, even stuff produced by staff members as a licensed product is not canon, although in many cases it may be taken as authoritative where canon is silent. In the case of Dorothy Fontana, she hasn't worked on Trek since the first season of TNG, so her statemenst regarding the Dominion War are no more relevant than any other third-party writer.

In other words, the shows are the dog, the licensed stuff is the tail. Watch which is wagging which.

But at the end of the day it's your game. Cannon is irrelevant compared to your view of what "feel" right.

Ok, this was not a canon based question, what I asked was

Quote:

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During the Dominion War, what was your status of the many lesser governments around the Alpha/Beta Quadrants.

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not if there was any canon, PC game, or other source references to the list of governments. I just wanted other peoples thoughts on how the galaxy would have been divided during the worst war in modern history.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Phoenix
To the best of my knowledge the Tholian Holdfast remained neutral throughout the war...

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The Tholian Holdfast ? That's a new one. Every piece of background material I've ever read on the Tholians (official, novels, or fan-made), said their government was called The Tholian Assembly.

Sorry, Starfleet Battles...I think...

Quote:

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Originally posted by Phoenix
Sorry, Starfleet Battles...I think...

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That would be it.

Regards,
CKV.

For my primary campaign universe, their stances follow:

Acamarian - Neutral.

Barzan - Neutral.

Caldonian - Neutral.

Chalnoth - Alliance with the Dominion.

First Federation - Presumably, left the Galaxy, UFP left as caretakers to their legacy and planets. Area was heavily contested by other powers nearby.

Gorn Commonwealth - Neutral though Pro-Federation with several strong agreements in place. Though the full story behind this is far too convoluted and off-topic.

J'Naii - Never defined officially.

Lurian - Neutral.

Lysia - Never defined officially.

Melkotian - Neutral

Mizarian - Never defined officially.

Pakled - They had influence? Seriously, they were nothing more then a nuisance.

Satarran - Never defined officially.

Sheliak Corporate - Neutral. Increased border defenses.

Talarian - Unaligned but border conflicts with the UFP increased.

Tamarian - Neutral, though trade improved.

Tzenkethi - Unaligned but increased their raids into Federation territory.

Zalkon Unity - Neutral, isolated.

I also had the Kzin in my game, I had a mini-campaign centered around them and while I never really defined their stance in the war, you've just given me a thought for another mini-campaign.

Regards,
CKV.

This took a while to dig up from old notes, but hope its of some use. The time period has always been my fave for running a campaign, there's just so much to do no matter what the players are.

Acamarian - Uninvolved/neutral

Barzan - Neutral

Caldonian - Neutral

Chalnoth - Dominion enslaved, PCs were to get involved but that session never happened for some reason

First Federation - I forgot about them so Uninvolved/Neutral

Gorn Commonwealth - Alliance, after negotiated deal with Starfleet to help modernize fleet (no tech exchange, just finally upgrading ships to the Gorn current tech level)

J'Naii - Neutral, trade with Federation increased

Lurian - Panicked and through in with the Alliance, to pull out later when defeat seemed imminent and remained Neutral

Lysia - Was Federation member in campaign (why I don't know)

Melkotian - Receeded into isolation

Mizarian - Now conquered seven times in the last 300 years...

Pakled - Uninvolved/neutral

Satarran - Aided Dominion covertly, but otherwise neutral

Sheliak Corporate - Trade agreements with both sides, meant to be major antagonist in next campaign that never occured

Talarian - Neutral, though briefly negotiated with Alliance

Tamarian - Alliance, once people figured out that's what they were saying

Tzenkethi - Basically neutral, but did involve themselves in piracy against the Feds

Zalkonians - Mostly evolved to energy now and out of the game, the few that remained solid were neutral

I also had about a half dozen new species that I can't remember anything about in my notes, most of which were for the PCs to decide the fate of. I'm pretty sure one was a Romulan client race, though, and another might've been on a border with the Breen... both of which would've had major political implications, as I was trying to make the players focus on the moral vs. political/"greater good" decision that came up so often during the war.

My players had to deal with another minor stellar power in Dominion War politics. The Groat Alliance had as a complex history, some of it involving time travel, which is too much to get into here. They are a very minor power, an alliance of a dozen technologically backward races on the edge of known space (Trans-Outback sector). Individually, their technologies would be Enterprise-era level, but combined they are greater than the sum of their parts, with TOS-era technology.

The Groat Alliance is friendly with the Federation, but is astrographically close to the Romulan Empire. Before the Dominion war, the Federation was interested in helping the Groat Alliance avoid being assimilated or concoured or enveloped by the expanding Romulan Empire, but didn't want to escalate things such as to cause war between the Federation and Romulans.

But the Groat Alliance could be no help in the Dominion War. After the Dominion War started, the PCs had several adventures where they wanted to help the friendly Groat Alliance, but were under strict orders not to anger the Romulan Empire, as the Romulan Empire was being courted as an ally against the Dominion. This made the adventures very tricky indeed.

Ok, to add to the list of non-canon governments that every one is sharing :) in my game here are some of the developed governments that have been seen or had interest.

Affiliation of Free Worlds: Located at the border of Federation/Klingon/Romulan controlled space, uninvolved (FASA: Triangle Sourcebook)

Attrexian Coalition: Far edge of the Typhon sector, Fed Applicant. (taken from Elite Force II Game)

Etheria: Far side of Cardassian Space, Low tech, under the protection of the Alliance w/ help of the Federation, uninvolved...so far.

Free Klingon States: Officially joined the Klingons to battle the Dominion. (FASA)

Grigari: Cyber-organic species near coreward edge of the Romulan Neutral Zone, completely mercenary. (DS9: The Fallen Game)

Kam'Jahtae: Far side of Cardassian Space, Allied with the Dominion (Name from ST: Invasion)

Kinshaya: Far side of Klingon Space, uninvolved . (FASA)

Nyztchician Sovereignty: Far side of Cardassian Space, Neutral. (based on Andromadea)

Othan: Border government between Klingon and Romulan Empires, Assisted Klingon logistics. (Space Dock)

Sebacian Alliance: Far side of Cardassian Space, Friendly to Fed cause. (rip off from Farscape, little less puritist).

Sha'kur: Located within Klingon Space, Neutral. (Based off SFB Hydrians, name from Klingon Academy Game)

Tauhari Unity: Far side of Romulan Space, uninvolved. (Romulan Boxed Set)

When the war was just starting didn't the Dominion have Non agression packs with about half a dozen goverments (on screen). I think even the Miradorn were mentioned along with Romulans, Bajor etc

Yes they did give such a list but I currently do not have access to those episodes so I could not say which governments they were. Anyone able to help out here?

Regards,
CKV.

Ok i've got a definate:

Romulans
Tholians
Miradorn
Bajor ...later on

Plus in a way the Cardassians

I don't i thought there were 1 or 2 more but i can't be sure.

Cool. Thanks Sir Sig. Though I too thought there were more. Anyone else know of onscreen evidence of that nature that names others?

Regards,
CKV.

Well my sources (encyclopedia etc) don't say anymore. But i thing the episode had a few throw away names. Maybe evern the Gorn?

I'd have to dig out the episode, i think its the one where they're mining the wormhole. And i think it Kira who mentions it.