Character Gen Query

Ok guys, a nice simple question for you to start the week. In making pc's, when you get to the 5 free picks stage. There is something I know I'm looking over but cant get it right in my head! Anyway, you can apply the 5 free picks to skills or attributes, ensuring that the skill ranks dont go over 6 or attrib's over 12. Now, as attribs have a direct effect on skills through rank bonus, can a player not just increase their attrib, hoping that if they gain another bonus on their attrib rank (ie +2 or +3 etc) they would not only increase the skill they want but all skills within that bracket (strength etc).

Or, when you get to this stage, does the increase in the attrib no longer effect the skills?

Help my head here!

Thanks in advance.

I think I get what you mean :)

The levels you purchase in a skill are held seperatelly from your combined total.... So while you might be only alowed a maximum of 6, you could have 9+ bonus to the skill if you had 12 in the associated attribute and or a trait which increased it (such as a skill focus from one of your backgrounds, or through being allowed to purchase it by also buying a flaw)

Effectivelly this works exactly as it would in D20, whereby you have max skill ranks BUT your bonus to the roll may exceed this with attribute modifiers and or feats.

So for an example, a player might purchase (Ranged weapons 6) - that means he has spent his character picks on 6 points worth of that skill - the maximum he can buy it at character creation. However his agility could be 12 (+3) - so his combined bonus would be (ranged weapons 6+3=9) and this does not in any way break the rules.. further to that he could then buy a skill focus or professional ability (if allowed) which might give him a further +3 bonus - taking it to +12 in total - again still within character creation rules.

NB: I don't actually own the Decipher LoTR products but ostensibly the rules system is the same as Startrek :D (though I may have got the skill names or attribute names wrong) Hope that helped.

Yep, thats what I mean :D

However, lets say he had a attribute of 11 and 5 ranks in the skill. Using his 5 free picks he has a choice. Either up the attribute by 1 or up the skill rank by 1 - or indeed both. Now, am I right in saying the obvious choice would be the attribute as that would have an effect not just on that skill, but all skills using that attribute?

Thanks

You're right, upgrading the attribute will affect ALL skills that use that attribute.. however upgrading an attribute costs more than 1 pick, which is all you need to spend on a skill (at creation time). i can't remember how much it is but it's allot! :D

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Originally Posted by JawD

However, lets say he had a attribute of 11 and 5 ranks in the skill. Using his 5 free picks he has a choice. Either up the attribute by 1 or up the skill rank by 1 - or indeed both. Now, am I right in saying the obvious choice would be the attribute as that would have an effect not just on that skill, but all skills using that attribute?

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Sure, the obvious choice would be to improve the attribute, since it would affect all the skills under that attribute, but attributes are more expensive to improve than skills. It's a decision the player has to make as to where they want their character to grow.

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Originally Posted by JawD

Or, when you get to this stage, does the increase in the attrib no longer effect the skills?

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And, for what it's worth, increasing an attribute always affects the skills, no matter when you increase the attribute.

Thats it ! Cheers. I knew there was a reason it wasnt that straight forward. Its as you say, the cost of the increase.

Thanks again.

Your attributes increasing do not, however, increase your reactions or health once you have made your character.. so that is one good reason why you might chose to do that before play begins.. afterwards you have to buy those seperatelly.

Increasing an attribute always affects Skills. However, the 6-ranks maximum refers only to the actual rasnks of the skill, attribute modifiers are not included.

Two things to remember:

1. The five free picks spend like Advancement Picks, thus, you can only increase an attirbute by 1 and you have to use all five picks to do it.
2. The separation of Attributes and Reactions/Health/etc. takes place after the five free picks but before any advancements are applied.

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Originally Posted by Doug Burke

1. The five free picks spend like Advancement Picks, thus, you can only increase an attirbute by 1 and you have to use all five picks to do it.

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Except for favoured attributes, right? I think those cost 4 picks... ;)

They certainly do when buying them with experience, so probably, but I can't recall without a book at hand.

There are some rather nice Traits you can buy too, such as (In startre, but there is probably a similar one) Athletic, which gives you +1 to all strength tests etc - there's also an inteligence based one, so you can, with a little tweaking, not worry so much about your attributes! :)

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Originally Posted by Ineti

Except for favoured attributes, right? I think those cost 4 picks... ;)

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Yep. You're right, Ineti. But still, it would use up 80% of the picks to raise a favored attribute...

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Originally Posted by Doug Burke

Yep. You're right, Ineti. But still, it would use up 80% of the picks to raise a favored attribute...

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Quite so. :) Smart character creation can help to avoid that, naturally.

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Originally Posted by Ineti

Quite so. :) Smart character creation can help to avoid that, naturally.

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Too true.

Thanks for prodding me in the right direction guys. We're having a get together in a few days to make everyone's pc's so I have to get it right in my head!

Don't forget you can ask lots of questions here, and if you get stuck, email me or Doug. :D

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Originally Posted by Ineti

Don't forget you can ask lots of questions here, and if you get stuck, email me or Doug. :D

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What he said. ;)

Why thank you, as you're so keen to help here is another one :D

In Iss 3 (Feb) of The Hall of Fire, they conclude their char gen example. If you look on page 13 you find the finished pc. Now, my question is about Lore. The points to spend are Wits x 3. In this case 13 x 3 = 39 points. Just I thought that Lore: Race (Men) would have been one Lore, and Lore: Race (Elves) would have been another. So, when this pc has Race:Lore (Men, Elves, Orcs) + 4, I thought that would in fact have cost 12 points?

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by JawD

Why thank you, as you're so keen to help here is another one :D

In Iss 3 (Feb) of The Hall of Fire, they conclude their char gen example. If you look on page 13 you find the finished pc. Now, my question is about Lore. The points to spend are Wits x 3. In this case 13 x 3 = 39 points. Just I thought that Lore: Race (Men) would have been one Lore, and Lore: Race (Elves) would have been another. So, when this pc has Race:Lore (Men, Elves, Orcs) + 4, I thought that would in fact have cost 12 points?

Cheers.

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Nope. Lore: Race (Men, Elves, Orcs) +4 would cost 6 picks (4 for the ranks, one specialty for free and 1 pick per specialty beyond the first).

Also keep in mind that the Native Languages and Lore encompasses native languages and all Lore skills.

Clink !

That was is it all dropping into place in my head! I read it again last night and its clear now :D

Cheers!

Glad I could help. :)

Hi,

Couple more things sprung up last night during character creation!

There is a max skill level of 6 for new pc's. Is this the skill level only, or is this including racial abilities? For example, an Elf who gets Ride +4 (iirc), could he only take two more ranks in the skill, or because he gets that for being an elf he could still take 6 ranks giving him 6 +4 ?

Also, Lore skills. If you have Lore : History : (Dwarfs) +2, would that be +2 to all history checks but with a bonus +2 when relating to Dwarfs being the speciality. Or, is it that you only have the skill against Dwarf History and no other?

Many thanks

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Originally Posted by JawD

There is a max skill level of 6 for new pc's. Is this the skill level only, or is this including racial abilities? For example, an Elf who gets Ride +4 (iirc), could he only take two more ranks in the skill, or because he gets that for being an elf he could still take 6 ranks giving him 6 +4 ?

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From the FAQ:

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Page 77: Q: Does the limit of +6 in any one skill for starting characters include any bonuses from traits and abilities, or just the ranks?

A: The limitation applies to ranks only. Any bonuses from Edges, Racial Abilities (unless they specify that the character gets free ranks in the skill, like “Six Meals a Day”), or Order Abilities may raise the net total for the skill above +6.

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Originally Posted by JawD

Also, Lore skills. If you have Lore : History : (Dwarfs) +2, would that be +2 to all history checks but with a bonus +2 when relating to Dwarfs being the speciality. Or, is it that you only have the skill against Dwarf History and no other?

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If you have Lore: History (Dwarfs) +2, that means you have the Lore: History skill with 2 ranks, and a specialty of Dwarfs. Meaning, if you attempt a Lore: History test on anything except Dwarfs, you have a +2. If the test related to Dwarf history, you'd have a +4 since specialties grant you a +2 specialty bonus to skill tests.

PS- Don't forget any other pertinent bonuses or the attribute bonus from Wits for the Lore test as Ineti indicated.

Thanks guys, thats both as I thought meaning its right in my head :D