I have it from a fairly reliable source that they will announce the cancelation of Enterprise tomorrow.
So far my source has been 7 for 7 on insider tips.
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I have it from a fairly reliable source that they will announce the cancelation of Enterprise tomorrow.
So far my source has been 7 for 7 on insider tips.
If that is true, then wow. Trek went 0-for-2 against Friday night.
Great. We're getting more of that Missy Elliot reality show, and I don't even like her. :mad:
I take this as a Rumor. Seen this before and this has turned out not the case. If your source it right. Great. If not. Oh well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike
Well...crap.
I wouldn't put much stock in this; we've seen the same rumor (almost word for word, including the dependability of the unnamed source) before. Frankly, I think it's just another Enterprise basher venting some of their hateful wishful thinking. Since there's no proof of this, Caitian, I'd hold off on feeling bad.
I agree as I said this is a rumor with no merit, but let's watch the name calling please. Calling people Gushers and Bashers have already been said by the higher ups as no no's. So let's not do that ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
Frankly, we do not have proof that Spike's source is an Enterprise basher.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
Whether it is true or not, there seems to be a growing concern that there is a collaborated movement by three groups that want to save Enterprise by putting out an advertisement on USA Today newspaper pleading with Les Moonves, Viacom's Chief.
Source: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/i...ory=0&id=30315
Well it's tommorrow now? :D or is it too early stateside for Deathknells ? :D
I think they deserve to give Coto a fair shot at it.. he has to deal with 3 years of Enterprise haters, a steady falloff of folowing and a massive continuity mess.. Why the producers expect people to instantly stop being sceptical and come back in their droves overnight I don't know.. but they always do!
Frankly, we don't have proof that Spike has a source. In any event, it seemed to me that I was commenting on Spike, not his source.Quote:
Originally Posted by REG
I've seen that, and it's the same sort of thing I remember happening with Voyager lo these many years ago. I think the whole thing is someone trying to stir shit up, and he's succeeded. I'm sick and damn tired of these things constantly coming up, and I'm going to start ranting about it. If it gets me banned or put in a corner or whatever, I can live with that. I left these forums for over a year, and I can live without coming here again. I'm tired of the negativity here anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by REG
Vent over, for now at least.
I wish I could give the name of the source but if you wish to assume I have none no problem.Quote:
Frankly, we don't have proof that Spike has a source. In any event, it seemed to me that I was commenting on Spike, not his source.
Interesting how I become an Enterprise basher for giving some news. Granted, it is not my favorite show and I have stated that I prefer Babylon 5 but nice open mindedness. :)
As a sci-fi fan I hope the rumour turns out to be false. Hopefully someone at the studio got his calender screwed up and he thought it was April 1st.
Sorry to have bothered you.
With all due respect, we don't know if Spike is any more a basher now than I was a year ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
Well, this board is meant for fans of Trek. That doesn't mean it is for fans of ALL Trek shows. I mean we're not all blind in faith. Some hated TNG, others hated DS9, and yet others hated VOY. But doesn't mean we hated all of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
As for bashing? It can't be helped. I want the franchise to succeed and impress us, which is pretty hard for them to do after so many films and TV episodes. But if Berman & Braga can no longer impress many of us, then perhaps somebody else should step in.
But, hey, if you like Berman & Braga style of Trek, you can have ENT and VOY. They're not my cup of Earl Gray Tea.
I for one would like for Enterprise to continue. The changes (except for the theme song) have overall been positive and we're seeing some real improvements. The bulk of (the most reasonable) fans complained and finally they listened, all the while continuing to make Trek interesting for all (like TNG and co. did) The absolute worst thing they could do is give in to every whims of the fanboys/girls. The crappiest ideas often come from them, I find.
I think we've reached a point where most fans of any series, universe, etc have turned into either the fat comic book shopkeeper from the Simpsons, who's always disatisfied with everything or the bland mindless drones who love and justifie everything the Hollywood bankers throw at them.
My bone also are those who just cannot look forward and let go of their freakin' childhood. You know, those who say "Lucas" or "Ron Moore" raped my childhood" because of the prequels, re-imagininig, etc. You're 30 now. I can understand if one criticizes, say, Lucas for churning out crap (and that is what is universally recognized, except for a few SW die-hards and 'blands') but the product must be judged on its own merit, not because some obscure line of dialogue upsets the perception of canon of some fat nerd.
If the rumor is true, it's time for a round of executions.
If the rumor is NOT true, it's time for a round of executions. Just different victims.
I don't much care...
As long as there's executions. :D
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...icle/9469.html
Quote:
02.02.2005
Star Trek: Enterprise Cancelled!
After four seasons, Star Trek: Enterprise has reached the end of its mission ...
PRESS RELEASE
UPN and Paramount Network Television have jointly announced that this will be the final season of Star Trek: Enterprise on UPN. [Production will continue until the end of this season, which will finish shooting in March.] The series finale will air on Friday, May 13, 2005.
:(
Can't say I'm surprised
@#&*!
Why did they go to all the trouble of bringing in new blood, just to cancel the show almost immediately afterwards? They didn't even give the show time to get turned around in the new direction before they pulled the plug.
It's almost as if they're making decisions in tandem with Decipher. :rolleyes:
[Quintesson:] GUILTY.
Executions all around!
It's possible the rumors from awhile back -- that they wanted this season so they'd have enough episodes to syndicate -- were true all along.
It's also possible that UPN is simply not satisfied with the performance vs. the cost, and figures that it can do better in that hour -- perhaps with more of its targeted programming.
Dawn Ostroff is on record as praising Berman's accomplishments in the past, which tells me something about her judgement.
I think it might not be a coincidence that this happened shortly after rumors that the studio was deeply unhappy with Berman's treatment for a new Trek movie. If that rumor is true, it might be that the studio has decided the franchise needs a rest, needs entirely new creative talent, or some combination of the two.
Spike You were right your source turned about to be right. Enterprise is over. So far your source is 8 of 8 now. Impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike
Not many shows are given enough time to gain new audience, whether it is a new show or having been running for some time now. Granted, they turned things around to the point where I myself am beginning to change my mind, but I'm guessing others are not convinced.Quote:
Originally Posted by First of Two
Yeah, I know it sucks. The question is, will the franchise find another network to broadcast? For me, I hope it is not cable. And as everyone have pointed out, the syndication market isn't what it used to be in the 90's, where we had TNG, DS9, Xena, and Hercules. (You could scoff at the last two but at least they ran for at least six seasons each.)
I sit here composing some thought and I find myself doing two things. On one side I wish to laugh and cackle madly. The other just wants to shrug in complete ambivalence.
I ask you all to bear with me amount as I churn out a few of my own thoughts on Enterprise.
For the most part Enterprise failed for several reasons:
1.) Poor Story writing - This has become a kind of lost art as the mass media machine turns out reality programming and doles out programming for the "hip" crowd.
2.) Lousy Character depth - Most of the characters on board the NX-01 were very one dimensional. Now granted it can be said of the 60's era TOS. Please keep in mind that when Star Trek first aired, Science Fiction wasn't as big as it is today. Star Trek was described as Wagon Train to the stars and pretty much went from there.
3.) Poor Management - Berman was definitely a poor choice to take over as head of the Star Trek franchise. Granted DS9 was a godsend (MHOO), he was not the best choice to take over. The only person I could think of that could do anything to oversee the development of the Trek series would have been J. Michael Strazinski. I know I know... he had the idea for a Station in space, crossroads, etc etc... we'll address that in a few moments.
4.) Disregard for Cannon - Now folks lets realize something here... Paramount didn't do a very good job with this one for all versions of Star Trek, so let's not hold the torch to any one individual in production. This will also be addressed in a few moments...
5.) One White Star, Col Jack (With two LL's!!) O'Neill and John Crichton to go please! Yes folks, Babylon 5, Stargate SG-1 and Farscape definitely raised the bar for what a good quality Sci-fi show should be. In short we got supremely spoiled on good writing, character depth, and character development. Not to mention the consistancy over the course of the season.
6.) The true death of Star Trek - Okay here I say it so pardon me for running fast and very far when I say it was the fans. Yes us.
:::Ducks:::
Yes we helped the show in its demise. Instead of showing our concern, we bashed it. Instead of offering suggestions, we criticized how things should have been done. In other words ladies and gentlemen, we killed it by telling Paramount we don't like it and they can shove it. Is this a harsh statement? Yes. Let's admit it. How many of us do not find something to nitpick about? Or critique ad nauseum?
Now don't get me wrong. The fault doesn't completely fall on us. It also falls on Paramount. They took something that had such a positive message and turned it into something they could squeeze every quantum ounce of latinum out of. Instead of seeing the trend in writing change to something that would draw people in, they stuck to the same formulae that ultimately drove us away.
I think the fault of Enterprise's cancellation rests with us all. Not solely on Paramount, Berman, Braga, or Cotto.
I'll try to look on the positive side, and think that this will allow us to avoid the 6th and 7th season syndrome which plagued TNG and DS9, where one episode out of three was extremely bad (ok, make it one episode out of four for DS9).
Since I like Enterprise, that leaves me with 4 overall good seasons to watch.
Now I wonder which Trek we'll get now : no Trek, another series (please make it not be the StarFleet Academy concept), a few years waiting, or lots and lots of syndication (reproducing what happened during the 70's with TOS).
Hmm.. Well, yet again, an american show is cancelled before we even get to see it here. I really think if they took into consideration European and worldwide viewing figures they might have thought differently, but I guess it was not to be.
Bummer. I liked three of the four seasons (didn't like/eventually lost interest the Xindi arc) and thought the current season was how they should have done the show from the start - use what is known in interesting ways but in a way still attractive to people unfamiliar with nearly 40 years of Trek history.
As for what is next, I'm guessing a "reimagination" like Battlestar Galactica. But probably not for several years.
Just when Ent was starting to get good, it goes the way of Firefly... :(
Meanwhile, Andromeda has gone so far downhill that it hit rockbottom and is now somewhere subterranean and still getting worse, but it's still on.
DEAR GOD, SOMEONE STOP THE MADNESS!!!
OK, vent over. Move along.
UPN is in midst of changing its programming ‘parameters’ from ‘general’ to ‘urban youth’ and ‘young female’…no, I don’t understand why either…anyway Ent. obviously doesn’t meet either requirement (no urban youth would identify with any character, and no self respecting lady [young or otherwise] would cheer any of the female characters on this show).
Stranger still, WWE Smackdown doesn’t meet the new programming criteria either, and that means it’s could be going on the chopping block…despite the fact that IT’S THE NETWORK’S #1 SHOW!!! That’s in both ratings and demographics for those playing.
So, if UPN’s willing to dump it’s “breadwinner”…what makes fans think that Ent. should/could be saved…?
Jump to another network.Quote:
Originally Posted by Modem
I was with you for most of your list, but a few things of note/correction:
Character Depth: “They” went to Ira Berr and were warned about this back after season two…and did NOTHING…
Poor Management: Berman wasn’t the man responsible for DS9’s success, nor was the collective team of “Them”. No, in singles it goes to Ron D(S9) Morre. Team-wise, add Ira Berr…
Disregarding Canon/‘Positive/Creative’ Fan Input: It wasn’t Paramount’s ‘job’ to play ‘time-police’ with this series, it was “Theirs”…and don’t tell me you’ve never heard one of there famous “We don’t give a **** about continuity” speeches?!?! “They” were making those as far back as Voyager (and everybody knows how good that shows ‘timeline’ was). Anyway, when Trek-fans began the “Your doing Ent. wrong, the events should be more like…” what did “They” do? Instead of saying even a backhanded ‘thank you’, “They” screamed ‘CONTINUITY PORNOGRAPHERS’ at the people who were trying to HELP “Them”…
“US”…you’ve got to be joking, as I’ve outlined; those ‘in charge’ are clearly the ones ‘at fault’
“They” DID NOT stick to the formula, “They” CHANGED the formula (and thus the continuity/timeline)…can you say “New Coke”…And “They” are the ones to blame for this, this…abomination of a series. And Coto isn’t clear of spatter either, many stories he’s responsible for are also contributors to the erosion of the fan base (incl. Klingon-forehead stories, Section 31 intros, showing the ‘Mirror Universe’ for the ‘first time’).
I just hope the Save Enterprise (and the like) are ignored this time…this show had FOUR YEARS to prove it’s self…TWO and even THREE MORE then most…
And REG, jumping to another network won’t solve the problems, nor will syndicating new episodes, the show stinks no matter how it’s pushed (preferably into oncoming traffic).
To be brutally honest, this season is better than the previous seasons. I hope it will come back. We still need to get rid of B&B but it is doable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Modem
I get the impression that you'd rather throw out the baby along with the bathwater.
Hmm. The development of Enterprise's cancellation makes me wonder if Decipher will decide not to produce any new RPG material since there'll be no televised Star Trek to provide public visibility for the product.
Are you worried they're going to squat on the RPG license until it expires? That depends on whether the new releases of products will sell well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezri's Toy
I think any good businessman (woman) should certainly take that into account. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezri's Toy
I think the future, as REG said, totally depends on sales. Decipher is a business and out to make money. If they can find a way to make RPGs profitable for them (in the wake of layoffs) then I'm sure they'll consider it.
However, keep in mind that they're under no obligation to publish anything and can certainly "squat" on the RPG license with no ill effects. Without a doubt VCP doesn't care one wit about the RPG license within the context of their other Trek licensing ventures.
I think Spike should gloat. Good call.
As for the 'fans' killing the show -- good call. I agree completely. People bitched and didn't watch; now they'll bitch they can't watch. :rolleyes:
Um, am I the only one that doesn't follow this logic? If they "bitched" and didn't watch then their state in life didn't really change, now did it?Quote:
Originally Posted by black campbellq
Too bad about ENT, though.
Yea, that's about all I can muster. :) (Caught part of one episode this season. Did like it.)
It's very late and I'm very tired - checked in only to find out if Spike's source was on the money with regard to this - and I've got to say my feelings are a little mixed.
No, I was not a fan of the show. It lost me after the fourth episode - or thereabouts - in season one, and I've gone into great detail, in other threads, about exactly why I felt this venture was tilting against a windmill from the beginning. My opinion on that hasn't changed, but I guess there's always a little bit of the heart that pines for the potential denied. I've got nothing against the cast and crew - they worked their hearts out on this one; Scott Bakula's statements about the revamping following the largely stagnant second season showed that they actually gave a ripe damn - but God almighty, the creative decisions couldn't have been much worse. Again, at least according to what I've read, and family members/friends who have kept an eye on this entertainment train-wreck for the past four years.
Is Star Trek over and done with? I really hope not. I think the concept is simply too strong, too vital to fade into obscurity just because of a couple of incompetents had their hands on the wheel for a few years. Hopefully Rick Berman and crew can be sent off to some Paramount think tank to reinvent Hogan's Heroes or somesuch, and an individual who actually understands the concept, and, above all, isn't afraid to take chances will be able to take a proper kick at the can.
That's all. Nighty-night; check in tomorrow. :)
I think your Admiralship, that black meant how things now flow in the other direction: The “bashers” who hated the complained that it was on, now the “gushers” will complain how it isn’t on anymore…my guess, I could by wrong…
And Reg: when the ‘baby’ is a demon-seed, formed from an unholy alliance of uncreativeness and a lack of respect for both the majority of the fans and ‘that which went before’, then:
You pitch the kid to curb, splash it with the contents of the tub (hopefully holy water), nail it with the tub; and if that don’t stop it, pitch the wash-woman at it...if it still moves after this, fetch a young priest and old priest, and cue a course Oldfield’s “Tubular Bells”.
So which represented Enterprise and which is B&B? The baby or the tainted bathwater?
UPN has already cancelled Smackdown, although it'll keep going until mid-2006. But they've announced they won't pick up the contract again after that. I heard that a few days ago, and so I expected them to cancel Enteprise too. It seems obvious that you are right and they are reinventing their network completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Modem
It was not my prediction. I was just the messenger passing on a message. And in true Greek fashion, some who did not like the message wanted to kill the messenger.Quote:
Originally Posted by black campbellq
I wonder, should I have outted my source and gotten him fired or should I have just kept my mouth shut.
::Spike, his mouth closed::
Yay!
That's it. Finally someone had the sense to cancell the show. Finally. Love and kisses to all. Perhaps now those fan shows will be able to make some money.
I'm not shocked about the cancellation of the show, but I am shocked that UPN canceled it. Does UPN make anything worth watching to the general audience? Unless I want to torture myself with watching sticks with puffy lips wanting to become super models. :rolleyes: