I am interested in playing a HM or MA 1 in a game, and have never used CODA before. How would I create one, who is ready to go to the 'board' for Chief HM or MA?
HM being the rate of Hospital Corpsman
MA being the rate of Master of Arms
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I am interested in playing a HM or MA 1 in a game, and have never used CODA before. How would I create one, who is ready to go to the 'board' for Chief HM or MA?
HM being the rate of Hospital Corpsman
MA being the rate of Master of Arms
if you look around, I think there are a couple of fan-made solutions for such things, but the simplest option woud be to simply give them the 'Starship officer' template, but put them on a non commissioned officer rank structure, as there is no real reson that a seasoned medic, or armsman could not have the same kinds of skills as a regular officer: Even NCo's recieve training and constantly improve themselves and their skills, as any other Officer would. The Clasic example is *Chief* Orien (if you ignore the fact he was a lieutenant in TNG :)), who was a non commissioned officer, but who was regarded as being skilled as any other Starfleet engineer. The only thing he didn't have was the rank.
I direct you to Sea Tyger's Enlisted Personnel House Rules, which are the only fleshed out write-up that I have seen. Here is my personal take on the Promotion equivalents for non-commisioned officers, though:
- Petty Officer
- Chief Petty Officer
- Senior Chief Petty Officer
- Master Chief Officer
- Warrant Officer
For our Anasazi campaign, use the guidelines for the equivalent officer rank to determine time in service. Miles O'Brien, having 22 years in service as stated in the DS9 episode 'The Wounded', would be a Warrant Officer (which I believe is supported in canon).
Navy enlisted time in rate requirements:
Seaman Recruit 9 months
Seaman Apprentice 9 months
Seaman 6 months
Petty Officer, 3rd Class 1 year
Petty Officer, 2nd Class 2 years
Petty Officer, 1st Class 3 years
Chief Petty Officer 3 years
Senior Chief Petty Officer 3 years
Master Chief Petty Officer 3 years
Chief Warrant Officer 2 "board-eligible" for promotion to Chief Petty Officer, or x years
Chief Warrant Officer 3 Senior Chief Petty Officer or above, or x years
Chief Warrant Officer 4
Okay, for chief, senior chief and master chief, the enlist must be selected by a board, who uses much of the same criteria as is used in officer boards.
To be promoted to chief warrant officer (we don't use the Warrant Officer, W-1, rank in the Navy), the enlist must be at least board eligible (meaning that the petty officer has passed the chief petty officer written exam for his rating) or already a chief, senior chief or master chief. PO1s and CPOs selected for CWO are promoted to chief warrant officer (W-2), SCPOs and MCPOs are promoted to chief warrant officer (W-3).
Unfortunately, I don't remember what the time in rank is for CWO2 and CWO3 (more accurately, I don't think I ever knew ;)). CWO4 is the highest warrant officer rank, and is the highest the chief warrant officer can go without entering another commissioning program (like the limited duty officer program). In other words, there is no natural progression from Chief Warrant Officer to Ensign.
So, to follow R-X's enlisted promotion eqivalents, I'd use the following times-in-rate:
Crewman 2 years
Petty Officer 7 years
Chief Petty Officer 3 years
Senior Chief Petty Officer 3 years
Master Chief Petty Officer 3 years
Warrant Officer Must be commissioned an officer to continue higher
So if I were to create a 'high speed' NCO, with a couple bumps on the way, the MA or HM 1 should have about 7-8 years in service? For my experience is most E-7s (SFC (Sergeant First Class)) have more then ten years time time in service, if not thirteen. Especially for the medical field, where the Promotion points required to get to E-6 is 780 (usually, if not higher) out of 800.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Tyger
Now, what should I do since I don't have any CODA books, could I create the character using my ICON books, and then do a character transfer/conversion?
And another question is, what is the promotion rate for MAs? Cause I can imagine the HM promotion rate is similar to my beloved Army Medical Branch?
1. I know chiefs who made rank within 8 years of entering the Navy. So, you can do it. Most, however, have 10-15 years in before they make chief. Of course, it depends heavily on the rating of the enlist, since some ratings have very little upward mobility, and others can't get enough people to stay.
2. In the Navy, Masters-at-Arms are a small community, so promotions are generally a little slower. Also, there are no MASNs or lower; MA's, like medical officers, must have authority over non-rates. Hospital Corpsman is a popular rating, and corpsmen tend to stay in the service longer, so promotions are a little slower.
3. If you like, you can PM me with your character's priorities and goals and I can create him for you (right after I finish my characters). :)
Thank you for the offer for assitance. Having you do it, may be far easier for me then for me to create it using ICON then making the conversion. However, I don't really want to burden you . . . I more then likely will take you upon your offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Tyger
And maybe sometime, I shall buy you an It's-It Ice Cream :-D
JALU3 --
No burdern here. I can put the character together (I'm done with mine, anyway). :)
It is a really strange coincidence that so many people seem to have noticed within the last few weeks that there is so little (CODA) information on creating enlisted personnel. I am one of them, and I have been thinking about writing a small document on the topic, based mainly on information from the ICON Trek Player's Guide. The other major source of information would have been the information shared here, mainly posted by Sea Tyger. So, instead of me writing it and crediting Sea Tyger and the others for almost everything, maybe one of the experts could take care of such a project.
:o I know, I am asking for much, but such a document would be really helpful and the author would earn the gratitude of the whole community.
Any volunteers? :) :o
Had I a copy of the Player's Guide for ICON still, I might be tempted to take up the challenge. Sadly, I do not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergi
Give me a bit of time, and I might be able to accomplish something along those lines. :) However, I have some other priorities at the moment... ;)
I'm in no hurry. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Tyger
BTW, Just to throw another monkey wrench into the works, I wrote up an article about Enlisted personnel creation for GOB's "Beyond the Final Frontier" e-zine ("But to Serve" waaaay back in issue #2). I've used that process for the enlisted NPCs in my game for quite a while...
Hmm, I thought enlisted personnel were supposed to get only 15 skill picks, not 20. Since officers get 27 picks, 15 picks sounds okay to me. Besides, this would be closer to the relation between the respective ICON templates.
An other point we should consider is the 3-year training difference between officers and enlisted crew.
But as you said, Doug, the packages are not set in stone.
Thank you.
I had an epiphany today...so, bear with me. :)
As I was working on JALU's character today, I was thinking about a way to simulate enlisted rates without actually adding any new edges (and making enlisted advancements different from officer promotions).
One idea sprang to mind: enlisted promotions aren't promotions per se (since naval enlists don't "increase in rank," but "advance in rate"); they are "commendations" (in the CODA sense of the word).
I've attached my new enlisted crewmember rules for perusal and comments. :)
[i]Editor's Note: I forgot to add one thing to the Commissioning Rules on the attachment. It's fixed and uploaded now.
Good overall, but I wanted to make the climb to Warrant Officer roughly equivalent to the climb to Captain. Beyond the former is commission; beyond the latter is flag rank. The chief problem we have (pun intentional :D) is that we only have a single example of an important enlisted character: Miles O'Brien.
I am minded of my brother's six years in the Navy. He served aboard the USS Sam Rayburn (SSBN/MTS-635) as a Machinist's Mate after completing Nuke School and was I believe a Chief Petty Officer at the time he mustered out. Elite training groups seem to advance in rating faster than their counterparts.
*shrug*
IIRC (I don't have my books with me), all other professions get 20 picks assigned in the package and five picks they can use for any professional skill. That's what I was going for with the 20 picks (in fact, I believe the sidebar mentions five additional picks, but I could be wrong...).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergi
I'll double-check when I get home...
I went through nuke school myself. I know how fast we "push buttons" can advance. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RaconteurX
However, the biggest difference between today's Navy and Starfleet is that enlisted personnel are not the subject-matter experts in Starfleet that they are today (with the notable exception of Chief O'Brien). The rest of the crewmen encountered in the first four series are simply maintenance techs, lab techs and orderlies (they seem to be a bit closer to modern enlists in Enterprise, but still not to the same expertise).
Honestly, I see Chief O'Brien (as seen in DS9) as not built as an enlist, but, instead, as a regular character that just doesn't have any promotion edges. That's just my opinion on the character.
With my enlisted creation rules, I want to more accurately represent the officer-specialist culture that exists in Star Fleet with enlists who are not (and will rarely ever become) stars of the show. However, I also wanted the opportunity for the most senior of enlists to be part of the "regular cast."
Was just reading over your posting. Very interesting. Wish I had the cash to spring on a CODA book (as I have previously invested in ICON), that way I could understand it better. So is CODA level based, or skill based? Well that is a more generalized question that you can PM to me, cause many reading this would probably look @ me funny for posting such a question.
However, maybe you should note the time in ranks are generalizations, and some rates advance faster or slower then other rates. Furthermore, I not that you are missing the five (or six (if you're looking at the legislation specifically)) tier Chief Warrant Officer ranks. What is your opinion on that?
Also, shouldn't Enlisted personnel above Chiefs (and higher) be very knowledgeable, far beyond that of their Ensigns and Lt (j.g.)s that are assigned over them?
I agree about the TIR.Quote:
Originally Posted by JALU3
For the Chief Warrant Officer ranks, I've only seen evidence of the ranks of Warrant Officer and Chief Warrant Officer in most Star Trek publications, and no additional grades of either.
Also, remember that the U.S. Navy only has three Chief Warrant Officer (W-2, W-3, W-4) ranks (we don't even use Warrant Officer [W-1]). We also do not use the W-5 rank; that rank is limited in use to only the Army.
Well, again, I come from the argument that in Star Trek, enlisted personnel are not technical experts; they're just the guys who do the mundane grunt and dirty work in their fields. They assist the officers, rather than perform the heavy technical work themselves.
In that vein, I would say that the average chief would have greater knowledge than the ensign, by virtue of having many more advancements than the officer, but the gap wouldn't be as great, since enlists aren't trained to be technical experts.
Found it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Burke
Sidebar, page 65 of the PG.
"...simply make 15 skill picks from the starship officer professional skill list on page 66, and assign five skill picks among Engineering, Science, or System Operation skills."
You'll note that the packaqges listed for the other Professions (PG p. 90 to 96) have 20 points of assigned skills and five more picks for any other professional skill.
That's where the 20 came from...
Doug, you are right. I didn't went downstairs to get my Player's Guide and I must have misunderstood the sidebar, when was skimming trough the character creation chapters. Sorry for wasting your time.
Sea Tyger, cool. :D Thank you.
No worries. Just trying to help... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergi
CODA is most definitely skills-based, but the concept of advancements mistakenly leads some to believe that it is level-based. The number of advancements a character has gives you an idea how experienced the character is, but there are no rules mechanics tied to the number of advancements a character has. In other words, just because Jean-Luc Picard has 53 advancements does not mean he can hold his own in a fistfight with Worf, who has 15 fewer advancements. Picard has, in fact, no Unarmed Combat whatsoever, while Worf has it at +8. Heck, Harry Kim, with only nine advancements, is still better in a fistfight than Jean-Luc (Harry has Unarmed Combat +2). All advancements do is control the rate of character development, as you have limits on what you can purchase during each advancement (no more than +2 levels in a professional skill and no more than +1 in a non-professional skill, for example).Quote:
Originally Posted by JALU3