http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/b...katrina/2.html
Nawlin's won't be the same. Place will need to be leveled after this
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http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/b...katrina/2.html
Nawlin's won't be the same. Place will need to be leveled after this
This is terrible! What a mess! I wish those still there, whether victim or helper, good luck! :(
I think "mess" is too weak a word for such a disaster. In some places it really looks like hell broke loose (which in a way is what happened). My earnest sympathy ot all those who live(d) there :( . Nice to see that most of our leaders are offering some help. Not sure the US will need/accept it, but still :) .
Disclaimer: The following may need to be moved to Sarek's Lounge, I don't know. I'm not trying to start a political debate here, just to assess the validity of the data I got. So ... I was trying to find some infos about the situation down there, and while browsing, stumbled upon this site:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/30/225058/062
The site makes some rather strong statements, I just can't determine whether this is just diffamation (does this word even exist in English? Lies I meant) or whether this is true :confused: .
I believe the word is defamation that you are looking for
Close enough ;) . Thanks :) .
It's pretty inflamatory language.
From the US Army corps of engineers http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/pao/re...asp?prj=lkpon1
Seems to confirm some of the information. I imagine hunting down articles in the local paper (if the site's up) would confirm the rest.
Dunno if factual confirmation of statements (money was diverted away from these projects) means the conclusion that gets drawn (bush's incompetence killed people) is correct.
Alex
The 'Daily Kos' site is quite liberal (by United States standards) and never misses an opportunity to bash Bush. Not that he's not bashworthy for a lot of reasons, but -- just trying to add a bit of perspective.
I fear some of these assertions might be Louisiana politicians attempting to CYA for their own failures. It isn't the Federal government's exclusive responsibility to take care of states in this country. In addition -- the city has sunk from when the French established it centuries ago, and is now six feet below sea level -- essentially, it's a big bowl waiting for the ocean to pour in. Sadly, it was only a matter of time until it did.
My earnest best wishes go out to the survivors, and hopes that rescue comes soon.
and it just get's worse
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2495.htm
And this too
http://www.local6.com/news/4923580/detail.html
We had some damage here in Baton Rouge, but NOTHING like what you're seeing in New Orleans. Many fen made it up here and elsewhere and we've been trying to keep track.
One name I've not seen yet is Cyberludite. Where are you dude? Are you okay?
For your sanity, he appears to be hiding out in this thread safe and well :)
taying out of the political stuff :)
When did he last post? Cyberludite that is.
Here it is: http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread...485#post146485
On 01SEP05. Good, he's safe. :cool:
And CMDR Powers, why don't you join use down in R-X's thing ;-). OK I know that is off topic . . . but . . . We still need a Chief Engineer.
Kos is well known to be an idiot. He's the one who (in)famously replied "Screw 'em" about the four Americans who were murdered in Falujah, then burned & hung from a bridge.
Back on topic, every Congress since the 1960s has passed the buck on making our hurricane levees secure vs. a Cat-5 storm. Quite frankly, given the level of damage such a storm would do (and, in fact has done), it was considered a waste of money to try & protect against them. Until last week, that gamble payed off. It is interesting to note that the section of the 17th Street canal's levee that broke was in fact one of the sections that had been upgraded.
There is only a limited ammount you can do to protect yourself from nature's fury: nature always finds a way, and sidesteps all of your carefully laid plans. (This rule also applies to players when you are the GM :D).
I guess what counts is not what you did to prepare yourself but how you coped in the face of it and how people helped each other afterwards. Adveristy always brings out the best in people, but what is sad is it also can bring out the worst too. I wish everyone would stop trying to find someone to blame for it, it's just hot air, and it helps no one.
Thanks guys! I'm very happy to see that Cyberludite came through okay. We fared much better up here in Baton Rouge, by comparison. Though the doubling of our population will have unthought of effects down the road... :cool:
If nothing else, this diaspora will improve the food all over the country. :p Here's a link to the pics I've taken. Unfortunately, my digital camera is lousy at taking pics from moving vehicles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmdr Powers
Thanks for the update!
It's horrible. I can't understand why armies and emergency came in late to help people. What I find ironic is that it was only the other day that George Bush said America didn't need any help and had enough money and resources to handle the situation. Does he think about poor people ?
Beware, Dax... no political opinions on this part of the forum (browse back the archives a few years from now to understand why).
Ever try to cross a bridge that isn't there anymore?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dax
Maybe they forgot to bring a map ... or to ask for recon planes to tell them which road/bridges to use ...
:rolleyes: :D
Actually, in addition to having to find safe routes in (Just because the roadway is still there doesn't mean the bridge can safely handle heavy trucks... In that sort of situation, would be rescuers can become rescuees pretty quick.), there's the seperation of powers between the states & the feds. Unless a state is in rebellion or being invaded, the President can't just order troops in. It takes a specific type of request from the Governor of the state in question to get the troops rolling.
So there are positive aspects to living in a centralized country like France or the UK (not sure about the UK, but the problems seem to be the same over there ;) ). I thought it was all about everything having to be in the capital city (jobs, administrations, traffic jams, insanely high living costs, etc.) :D .
I have to agree with C5. If this continues, I shall petition that this message be striken from the record. For it would be unfair for one side to voice their opinion, while the other side is bound by the rules. But in the case, the individual in question did not know the rules, therefore now she has been warned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dax
Calm down, there's politics and irony, and the fudgy line in between. She's been told and she hasn't strayed so lets not browbeat her to death guys!
I think it is fair to say that it is going to be a tremendous organisational nightmare for whomever it falls to, and the governmental structure within America caused a brief hiccup before things could get started. I am not privy to the no doubt streaming media that people in America have, but after every disaster there is always a moment of doubt; the very fact that devastation was SO bas meant the scale of the disaster was not really known at first. I think it's fair to say that no government could be prepared for disaster on this scale, it is a freak anomaly, and nothing like it can be held in check till we build a weather modification satelite network, which also stops earthquakes, deflects meteors and removes volcanoes.. so a while then!
America in this instance is probably much better suited to this kind of natural disaster, than many other countries because they are common in that region. Britain or France have to my knowledge not had a category 5 whirlwind of death go through a city, and nor are they likelly too, so they would have no contingiency plan for that at all!
Jalu3: Which message? That from Dax, or mine? I did not consider mine political, in the sense that it is just a statement about how things are (admittedly with a feeble attempt at humour), rather than a rant about how things ought to be. That said, if this falls under the moratorium, I'll just keep those statements to myself ;) .
Cybrludite: I just read something on overclockers.com about technology being able to help with a lot of things but not with. I had no idea there was such a thing in the US. I guess this only applies to troops that do not originate from the disaster stricken state. However, this does a lot to explain delays that most of those who are not US citizens had trouble to understand.Quote:
laws that make it a felony for the military to help out unless the President essentially declares the place to be in a state of rebellion.
Tobian: Yep, we don't have strong winds in our part of the world ... gosh this sounds horribly wrong when I read it aloud :D . Anyhow, around december 2000 we had some kind of big storm with winds up to 200kph (AFAIR) which went across France (then Germany if I recall) ... caused a lot of devastation (mostly cars and trees and old buildings), and we were indeed a little ill prepared for this. Maybe our government learned from this storm ... not sure. But we often have floods, and we have contingency plans for those ... not that I wish to test those to see who fares better under this kind of circumstances :( .
Dax's. For if there were any political message in yours, I think it was more of a show of nationality preference. Which I don't think you can fault anyone for having, especially since we live in a period where the most promenent government institutions are Nation-States.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcoran
Especially since I was more kind of tongue-in-cheek-bashing my own state rather than criticizing someone else's. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JALU3
Yeah, it was (oddly enough) one of the wins for states rights that came from the War Of Yankee Aggression & its aftermath. During the post-war "reconstruction" era, Federal troops were heavily involved in the politics of the former Confederate states while undertaking what were basically law-enforcement missions. Given the history of what all led to the Revolutionary War, (and since reenforced by the results of various 3rd World juntas) we put Federal troops completely out of the civilian law enforcement business. Except for the Coast Guard, who are a mix of Law Enforcement, Search & Rescue, and an auxillary Naval paramilitary force, all branches of the US armed forces cannot be just sent into an area to suppliment the local cops. The Army National Guard operating at the behest of their state's governor are exempt from this. The three brigades of MPs that were sent in were technically on loan to Louisiana on the order of their home state's governors (At the request of the President). Had the other governors said "No", Bush could have federalized those units & sent them, but they would have been subject to the same restrictions as Regular Army troops and therefore unavailable for use as police. They could still be used to guard things & to do rescue work. Some of the soldiers guarding the hosptial I work at are from the 18th Airborne Corps Combat Support Brigade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcoran
That's okay. American Federalism is designed deliberately to strangle the federal governments ability to interfere in local state affairs, as well as check it's ability to change it's own laws. By in large this works out well, but there are certain instances where the whole system falls apart. FEMA and other Federal Level agencies have to be asked to come into a state to assist in disaster and civil disturbance releif operations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calcoran
I got this drilled into me when I worked for Public Policy in the Public Safety Division at our Governors office back in 1999. FEMA cannot initate operations until the Governor asks for it. Which is why the President was asking Governor Blanko to ask to get the ball rolling before Katrina hit so the ball could get rolling as soon as the storm passed. The fact that she and the mayor did not put in the request is inexcusable. There's already a movement to impeach both of them over here for incompetence. Fine by me.
Non political point:
It's interesting to see that another government can screw things up as well as our beloved own over here in lovely old Blighty.
Someone, somewhere is to blame, with either incompetence or sheer idiocy, and I hope the get what they deserve.
I am glad to see that the various members on here from that area all seem to be okay, and my thoughts and prayers are with those who are still struggling in the aftermath.
Cheers
Tas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolshark
It's a hurricane. This shit happens when a natural disaster strikes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolshark
And on the global warming front... http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...5/131154.shtml