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In the wake of guessing if there actually might be another appearence of the TNG crew on the big screen I started wondering, what the fan's chances are, that we will see a newly edited Director's Cut of ST: Nemesis?
Has there ever been any word about this? Has there been any DC of any Trek movie before? (I seem to recall that there is a DC of TMP).
There are DCs of ST:TMP and ST2:TWOK. That's it. I wouldn't hold my breath for a DC of Nemesis.
That's too bad. With all those deleted scenes and holes in the storyline it would be the Trek movie that a DC would possibly do a lot of good.Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
Well, the DC of TMP was actually watchable and enjoyable, something that couldn't be said for the original theatrical experience (though I was just 13, and it was pretty cool for what it was...it just wasn't good Trek).
A DC might help Nemesis, but frankly, I'm not sure I could muster enough "I care" at this point. I was never a big 24th century fan, so it wasn't a major deal with me that it wasn't good.
That will certainly be helpful for not being disturbed by Nemesis. I grew up with TNG and it still is my fav show, so I care a lot ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by PGoodman13
Yeah, I can see where that would be a problem....
I've seen it. It's called Wrath of Khan.
Well, since the director actually was a cutter originally and also cut Nemesis, we already saw the director's cut. Now we might hope to see a "non-director's"-Cut. Maybe from someone who knows what he or she is doing. How about a "Frakes'"-Cut... ;)
Yes Star Trek X was a bad ending . . . to a good run. Furthermore, it ended the long standing tradition of even number movies being the good ones. When the odd numbers came around, we laugh, we chuckled . . . and we expected the next one to be the good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut
But X (Nemesis) was SO outdone by IX (Insurrection) that it's pretty sad to think about it.
So if they can find a way to improve it. By ALL MEANS. However, will I be willing to purchase it. HECK NO! Rent it, if I have the free time.
Well...Braga is gone. Now if only Berman can be given the stake throught the Heart, we might be okay
We've already got the original DVD and the Special Edition DVD... let's try not to get TOO George Lucas, here... ;)
I can see your point here, but IMO 'Nemesis' could so much benefit from a DC or let's say "new cut" (just to honour Evan's arguments :p ).Quote:
Originally Posted by First of Two
We could insert all the Jar-Jar scenes from the "Fan-Edited" Phantom Menace ! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut
I actually care for TNG, so my idea was to help not to make matters even worse. I believe that Jar-Jar is right where he belongs, a galaxy far far away from Trek :DQuote:
Originally Posted by First of Two
I'd like to see it.
Personally, I've never understood the bashing of Nemesis. I absolutely loved it - about the only complaint I had was the "open door" for Data to come back via B4. But I didn't see it as any worse than the "open door" for Spock to come back and get his katra (was that it?) back via Bones.
Honestly, I would rank the ST films as follows (out of 5):
I (ST:TMP) - 3
II (ST: TWoK) - 5
III (ST: TSFS) - 3
IV (ST: TVH) - 8
V (ST: TFF) - 1
VI (ST: TUC) - 5
VII (ST:G) - 3
VIII (ST: FC) - 5
IX (ST: I) - 3
X (ST: N) - 4
Anything over 3 I'd be happy to see a DC of! (And yes, I ended that sentence badly! :) )
You say 5 is highest: What's the 8 doing by Voyage Home? Your favorite movie? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Aldaron
It's mine too, I'd award it an "8" anytime. I was just surprised, that's all.
If find it humorus that William Shatner created what many thought was the worst Trek movie of all time the Final Frontier. His career tanked after that and he did paintball DVDs.
Then we got Insurrection... Then Nemesis, Shatner has won awards and on a hit TB series, where he plays an insane lawyer...
So we now know the stake has been removed from Shatner, maybe it is in Bermen, why we have not heard anything from him.
Let's be realistic Nemesis was the worst of the films, it is sad, Final Frontier did much better. That is saying something.
Now I have friends saying it is great and follows contenuity then I show them my Trek DVDs, they change their minds.
Sadly Nemesis was written by a very good writer, but his script obviously got B&Bed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by First of Two
What are the differences between the original DVD and the Special Edition DVD release?
Is it just more features and stuff or are there actually more deleted scenes, commentaries and the like?
Unless those deleted scenes include Sela and Tomalak, I doubt it could make the film any better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut
The only thing that could make the film better would be for someone to go back in time and stop it from being made. Seriously... I saw Nemesis at a matinee and not only wanted a refund of my three dollars, I wanted those two hours of my life back.
I liked Nemesis, I think you guys are being a little harsh on it.
Hey, it was a perfectly good rehash of Wrath of Khan:
- Megalomaniacal villain? Check!
- Weapon of mass destruction? Check!
- Major character killed saving the day? Check!
Oh, except Wrath of Khan was well-scripted, well-cast, well-acted, well-paced, well-directed and... well... well-everything compared to Nemesis. Nemesis made me nostalgic for the epic suckage that was The Final Frontier and The Undiscovered Country, and that's saying something.
Now I'll accept the accusation of being a little harsh. But only a little. LOL
With the exception of a major character killed those are characteristics of almost every Star Trek movie.
I think the sheer number of people who rate TFF over Nemesis need to be forced o watch Trek V again. Really that movie was the biggest suckage of the lot. Far worse than Nemesis.
(The only thing worse than Trek V is Highlander II, although at least the Highlander series admitted their mistakeand pretended it didn't happen, while every anally retentive trekkie forces Trek V on us as canon... :( )
Its not as bad as Trek V, although I agree that it one of the worst. I'll give you that! ;) As the great comedien Eric Morcombe once said;
"Its got ALL the right notes. Not neccesarily played in the correct order."
In my Trek Universe the plot of Nemesis revolves around Sela who is the puppet master but whose role remains entirely off-screen. Using the events of the movie to destroy her political rivals either by death or discredited by association... Then sets Shenzen up against Picard knowing that either way a major thorn in her future plans will be removed and the other too weakened to be an immediate danger.
Post Nemesis the Romulanm empire starts collapsing with the Reunification and pro-alliance factions working together to try and make nice with the Federation, and the Imperial factions looking to isolate and rebuild again. Meanwhile Sela is pretty much in charge and having taken over the Tal Shiar and fairly indifferent towards the corrupt empire is looking to cut loose the dead weight and begin again...
So I get to keep all the canon continuity, but put a different slant on events that plays things somewhat differently.
I don't think I'll ever be able to form a really unbiased opinion of Nemesis. I mean, I can't help having a little sympathy for a movie that is vigorously bashed six months before it was released, no matter how bad that movie can be. It's not my favourite Trek movie indeed, but I can't really say it's the worst. I agree there were many similarities with ST2, down to the final fight in a nebula, however.
(and I agree with Dan that Highlander 2 is probably one of the worst movies belonging to a series).
Nemisis was pretty bad. It just never clicked with me; the plot was comiing at you from all sides (he's Picard's clone that they made a slave...oh and he seems obsessed with Troi but that never goes anywhere....oh and here's a previously unkown Soong android...and here's the baddies new space battleship that isn't much worse than any other big ship we've ever seen). Add to that what seems to be a complete disregard for canon in some parts, and it just seems to be slapped together.
Oh, and back when Highlander 2 came out, me and a friend came up with a couple of extra lines of dialog that might have made the whole movie make more sense. AFter the bad guys tell the rebels that they are sending them to Earth to fight and kill each other, we thought that adding something along the lines of "You will be scattered throughout time and place, born anew on this world, never knowing your true origins, only seeking the Prize!"
Well, for two college guys that just spent their beer money on that crap fiesta, it was the best we could come up with at the time.
Actually, I did, and I found I liked STV a lot more than I did when I was a kid. The script probably needed a rewrite for focus, but at its core there was a solid Trek film there. Nemesis, on the other hand, had a script sewn together from a whole bunch of SF cliches and other Trek episodes (Picard and Data fight their evil twins! Troi gets mind-raped! Riker fights Nosferatu in the Nostromo-like bowls of the Enterprise!) and thus, no core, no real concept behind it. No, Wrath of Khan+!clone doesn't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
And they apparently missed the most obvious casting choice for Shinzon: Patrick Stewart.
To me Generations is by far the worst movie out of them, for the most part I liked the rest even V which I also thinks gets a bad rap. For me though the most implausable and impractical is IV which I still rate well above Generations. After IV III I thought was pretty bad but it has its good points, also it helped that Doc Brown makes a pretty convincing Klingon...who would have thought.
I try to forget Generations even exists though. The concept is totally ridiculous, it crams two eras together just 'cause, Data gets on my nerves throughout the entire movie and the villian in the end couldn't even kill a cat. On the bright side Whoopi Goldberg isn't being shoved down my throat any longer so that's a plus.
Shatner gets too much blame for the problems with ST:V. When the studio cuts your budget when you're already in the middle of principle photogrohpy, you're pretty screwed. I'm actually okay with V, though it couldn't compete with II - IV.
Nemesis - yeah, that was teh suckage, for so many reasons, not the least of which is Shinzon even being allowed to live after the original scheme went awry. They'd have just killed him.
You should write that plotline up as a novel, it would be the only good thing that came out of Nemesis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
Just a slight issue there on the cavernous bowels of Federation Starships... But remind me what deck did Spock stop at when travelling UP the Turbolift shaft on his jet boots in STV?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Tatterdemalion King
And once you confirm that they went UP to Deck 78, remind me where deck 1 should be? :D;)
OK, just being a bit of a pedant deliberately there...
But you got me on the last one...
I found my one and only written draft of the use of Sela around Nemesis... its from wayyyy back in 2003...Quote:
Originally Posted by RaconteurX
http://forum.trek-rpg.net/showthread.php?t=8466
Its a little rough around the edges, but you get the jist.Quote:
Major/Commander/Sub-Commander Sela is disgraced after several failed missions thwarted by Picard. And so she has a need to rebuild her own personal power-base along witha personal grudge against Picard and the Enterprise.
Her standing is further reduced by the Alliance to fight the Dominion, and with a looming friendship with the Federation, her hardline standing is seen as a flaw...
Thats when she discovers Picards clone, and begins to plot events. Ensuring some covert help to the Remans, and helping Shinzon to grow and become a Reman trooper, starting his rise to power... For this she was relying on several of Picards personality traits, her covert help and the Reman Viceroy. And in the meantime she enabled some secret construction facilities (ie; Tal Shiar, but a deniable recource) to begin construction of the Scimitar...
Once everything was in place, the Scimitar, Shinzons placement as leader of the Remans, she began part B to her plan, and plotted and carried out the assassination of the High Council (having sidelined her career, it became a pleasant task)...
And so the events of the film began to unfold, until Shinzons instability threw the first couple of wrinkles into the plan. THis was when the little known plan C came into effect. As Sela had planned to ensure that her powerbase would be rebuilt no matter what...
And so she tipped off Donatra and brought her Romulan associates into a position of Neutrality. leaving Donatra to attack Shinzon and either win and gain the trust of the Federation for all, or loose and be destroyed (thus destroying proof of Sela's involvement)...
Now the film closes, and Sela steps up, and claims credit for some of her actions, while disposing of some assets that could embarrase her later (the unfortunate accident involving one particular polititian/assassin is a little convenient, but little is proved, and many Romulans think it fair justice)...
So now Sela sits as one of the senior ranking Tal Shiar officials, and as a hero of the Empire after having saved it from the mad Shinzon, and fakes a veneer of neutrality towards the Federation, while working on increasing her political power and looking for new ways to get revenge against Picard...
That's an understatement.Quote:
Originally Posted by CypherWest
Never did liked how the story go.
Never did like the addition of the Remans, the so-called hidden race of the Romulan Empire.
The Picard imposter could have been more useful under the guidance of Major Sela and/or Tomalak, more notable iconic Romulan figures that would link the TV series to the film, much the same way the TOS "Space Seed" episode is linked to Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan.
Somewhere without Jet Boots, that's where.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Gurden
I have just seen a few scenes of director Werner Herzog's 'Nosferatu' (Klaus Kinski being Dracula) and I think I now know where the art departmant of 'Nemesis' have gotten their basic ideas of the Reman looks from ;)
The Nemesis script explicitly stated the similarity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut
This is from the same page that tells the art department to base the Romulan design on the KAOS symbol from Get Smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Logan, Hack
Ah, intersting!
Where can one read the script, anyway?
TrekCore, which is one of those incredibly useful sites you wish existed a decade ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut
Thanks!