Can I do Two overlays?

I have this Character that I want him to have gone Through SF training twice. 1st as an enlisted then has an officer.

His story is that he wanted to start his career right away so he enlists in Starfleet as a crewman. He's in the operation branch he rises to chief real fast and is still pretty young. He gets excepted to SFA and goes for four years to become and engineer.

So can I 1st Give him the operations crewman overlay then Give him the Engineer officer Overlay.
I know its most likely narrators choice (I am the narrator) but I am looking for a pressident

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Push the Button Frank

Strictly by the rules, no. You'd end up with a grossly unbalanced character, one with significantly more points than other PCs.

Of course, if your Narrator allows it, then go to town. Arguably, in a well-run Trek game, strict character balance might not be that important.

As an alternative, I'd suggest trying to come up with one Overlay that covers, in at least a basic way, all the skills the character would have learned from those two Overlays.

Steve Long

I see what your saying. Unbalance character is not a problem. my thinking the overlays represent what one learns in school or training. So two schools two overlays.

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Push the Button Frank

The Overlay reflects a character's 4 years at Starfleet Academy, not just specific courses.

If I was feeling generous, I might allow a character to upgrade all the skills listed as Primary Skills for the new branch to the levels listed on the new Overlay, reflecting a branch transfer and a tour of duty in that branch.

By the book:

Take the Enlisted Overlay, then take the Commissioned Officers Training Package from the Players Guide.

Enlisted Personnel does not take an extra four year training at SFAcademy.

If you're creating a character whose backgrond history includes having enlisted into Starfleet and then later took a commission as an officer to where he is now, follow the instructions in the second paragraph under the Officer Candidate School heading on page 96 of the Player's Guide.

Basically, choose your Template and your officer Overlay for your character's final position. Then do your Background History as if you're an enlisted (Training and Tours of Duty), take the OCS package, then the Academy Life History (yep, you have to spend 5 years at SFA to become an Ensign), and your Tours of Duty before you begin play.

Hope this helps.

I don't want him going to OCS i want him to go to SFA.

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Push the Button Frank

Well, according to the rule, he has to take OCS before going to SFA. The OCS package is a catchall package, for those seeking Warrant Officer promotion or standard officer commission. If you take the OCS package and do not go to SFA, then you become a Warrant Officer.

But in all likelihood an enlisted personnel must take the OCS package before going to SFA.

Of course, Your Campaign, Your Rules.

The answer seems relatively simple, if you want a fair spread of skill points...

Work out the difference in DP between an enlisted and a Starfleet officer. Off the top of my head I believe its 36 DP for enlisted and 54 for an academy graduate... So 18DP.

Create the enlisted character as in the Players guide, generate his career, adding the OCS for the final tour (as in the rules)... And Then spend the remaining 18DP on skills from within the Branch template.

This way your character is a fair distribution of points with no munchkin tendancies...



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Dan.

"A couple of thoughts froma random mind!"

Look at pg 27 under OCS you still go to the Academy

Yep. If you want to be an officer, you have to go to SFA.

But of course if he wanted to stay a Warrant Officer you could skip SFA.


********* Warning Spoiler

At the end of DS9, I think it was the last episode, if memory serves me (it seldom does)
I think Chief O'Brien was offered a field commission. Maybe some Narrorators would allow that so you don't have to go to SFA.

****** Warning Spoiler

Actually Mig1, O'Brien was offered a teaching position at SFA, Professor of Engineering. I doubt he will be the Head of the Engineering Department (although he does have the merit AND experience) but that is all he was rewarded (that and being close to home and family, especially his botanist wife Keiko). One would imply that he may have also been promoted, but there is no mention (personally, he should). http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/cool.gif

[This message has been edited by REG (edited 12-09-2000).]

Ah, my bad then.

Like I said, my memory seldom serves http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif

As a side note, my late Father was a CW2, until 1965. He was offered a commision, but would have had to stay in Vietnam. He'd had enough and figured it wasn't worth it. Not to compare Star Fleet with the US Army in the early-mid 60's, but there is precedent.

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Originally posted by REG:
****** Warning Spoiler

Actually Mig1, O'Brien was offered a teaching position at SFA, Professor of Engineering. I doubt he will be the Head of the Engineering Department (although he does have the merit AND experience) but that is all he was rewarded (that and being close to home and family, especially his botanist wife Keiko). One would imply that he may have also been promoted, but there is no mention (personally, he should). http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/cool.gif

[This message has been edited by REG (edited 12-09-2000).]

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Most instructors (for officers or enlisted) are NCOs in today's military. As far as promotion goes, I could see him making E8. Making "ensign"? Don't insult the man http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/wink.gif He's an NCO! He works for a living!

But O'Brien is already an NCO (Chief Petty Officer canon-wise, Senior Chief Petty if identified by his collar insignia, or Master Chief Petty Officer if you believe Robert Hewitt Wolfe). All the ranks from Petty Officer Third Class to Master Chief Petty Officer is a non-commissioned officer grade.

AFAIC, he got a new assignment, and a sweet one at that.

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Originally posted by Kevin:
I don't want him going to OCS i want him to go to SFA.

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They are the same. Paramount was very specific when we were writing the "Starfleet Academy Boxed Set" -- there is no "boot camp" or anything else like it. There is but one school, Starfleet Academy, and all Starfleet "officers" (including enlisted) go to it.

Our reasoning was that enlisted didn't have as strict entry requirements (pretty much anyone could get in), and not as rigorous training.

As pointed out earlier, the rules for what you are asking already exist in the "Players' Guide." Make an enlisted character, flush out your tours and background, then use the OCS package from the "Players' Guide." Add additional tours for flavoring, let sit for five minutes and presto! -- character done. http://www.trekrpg.net/Board/ubb/smile.gif

Don
SFA Author


[This message has been edited by Don (edited 12-11-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Don (edited 12-11-2000).]

Suppose the following:

A Klingon warrior serves the empire until he is brutally wounded, to the point where he cannot engage in combat (missing leg, arm, or reduced mobility. I'm making the assumption that Klingon medical standards aren't up to Federation standards.)

So, after a long career as a warrior, he's now disabled. Suppose he passes on the Hegh'bat ritual, and instead chooses to become a military advisor.

Question: Would this constitute changing overlays, or just moving to a different, more sedentary tier of the tour of duty packages?

If you're running the character post OCS, I'd just use the officer overlay and give him a previous experiece package out of the Player's Guide .

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Originally posted by qerlin
If you're running the character post OCS, I'd just use the officer overlay and give him a previous experiece package out of the Player's Guide .

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Thanks. That makes sense!

Dave Biggins took the words right out of my mouth. Miles doesn't want to be an officer. Officers have to attend formal Starfleet receptions with admirals; NCOs don't. He seemed pretty happy about that at the beginning of the Bell Riots two-part episode.

As for the Klingon becoming a military advisor, I'd give him a training package to cover anything like strategy, logistics, and instruction techniques that he hadn't picked up during his time as a grunt. From then on, his tours of duty will definitely be more sedentary.

But we must never forget that O'Brien was a full Lieutenant when he was on the Enterprise. I always thought that was one of the bigger continuity slips they pulled that no one caught.

Recently in my game our Chief Engineer went to OCS, as the ship he was transferred to was too large to allow an NCO to be the Chief.

OCS is great...

But I disagree with Paramount about NCO training. But that's just me.

I always thought that O'Brian was always an NCO, even back on the Enterprise. It was just no-one in custume wanted to take the time to create NCO rank insignia. Which they did for DS9.

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Originally posted by Phantom
I always thought that O'Brian was always an NCO, even back on the Enterprise. It was just no-one in custume wanted to take the time to create NCO rank insignia. Which they did for DS9.

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No in every scene he is in you can clearly see those two shining pips on his collar :)

See at that point Rodenberry's rule of now NCOs was being adhered to. In his mind everyone in Starlffet was an Officer...from the lowest decks to the centre seat. ensigns did the jobs of NCOs and tried to get noticed and get ahead.

I think DS9 is where we first see NCOs, in the form of Chief O'Brien, but I could be wrong. On the Ent-D he was called Chief, because he was the transporter chief.

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Originally posted by AslanC


No in every scene he is in you can clearly see those two shining pips on his collar :)

See at that point Rodenberry's rule of now NCOs was being adhered to. In his mind everyone in Starlffet was an Officer...from the lowest decks to the centre seat. ensigns did the jobs of NCOs and tried to get noticed and get ahead.

I think DS9 is where we first see NCOs, in the form of Chief O'Brien, but I could be wrong. On the Ent-D he was called Chief, because he was the transporter chief.

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Then there was "Families" when Worf's adopted father referred to O'Brien as a fellow "Chief Petty Officer". At that point the whole assumption of O'Brien's rank and position got tossed out the window.

Actually they have had enlisted in ST for sometime, all those guys running around in jumpsuits in TOS were enlisted (specialists.)

I just think it was a custume thing, as stated above when ever someone addressed O'Brian it was always "Chief..." That is enlisted, no matter what the rather silly uniform rules for Trek state.

Wasn't Janice Rand an enlisted woman. She went to OCS on Kirk's recomendation and the last we saw her, she was a Commander and Sulu's communications officer on the Excelsior.