Primitive Disad from All Our Yesterdays (Icon) to Coda

My Narrator wants a player to play a character from the 20th Century (since the player knows absolutely zero about Star Trek this would make a good introduction for him: everything new to him is new to the character).

I gave the Narrator my copy of All Our Yesterdays: The Time Travel Sourcebook from LUG, to show him the Primitive Disadvantage in there.

Does anyone here have any thoughts on how to adapt this Icon Disad into a Coda Flaw, 'cause I'm really not familiar enough with Coda rules to do it.

/The Gaunt Man

I'm sure somebody else will gladly answer your question, but I am curious. What kind of series do you run, allowing you to integrate a character with such a background?

How about a -3 penalty on all actions involving use of Star Trek technology or knowledge-related checks concerning the Star Trek universe?

Or about increasing the TN by +5 for all Star Trek technology or Star Trek knowledge related checks by this character?

I think playing such a character would be a huge disadvantage for any campaign set in the Star Trek universe. That character would have a difficult time on many skill checks. I personally can't imagine any benefit to playing such a character unless maybe its a campaign set in the 20th century & this PC is helping PCs from the future who are here on earth today.

Anothing thing is the Federation Timefleet from the 29th century might have a problem if that 20th century person is not supposed to be in the future & the timeline has been upset by his/her existence.

Hmm it is an interesting idea, but it could be limited, give the context.. What is he there to bring to the adventures.. I'm thinking John Chriton, in Farscape, because its all just about as wierd to such a person!

Yes I would say a -5 or more penalty of 24th century technology, depending on what it is. A Replicator is voice activated, so once you are shown how to use it you wouldn't have a problem.. However you're not going to be able to do much with a tricorder or fly the ship! While perfectly ordinary to us, they have functions beyond 20th centuries have practice with.. It's like giving a 19th century man a PC.. he'd have to figure out what it both does AND what the point of it is!

If the man is a specialist in his field, depending on how what that field is, he may still be relevant, in certain circumstances.. For example John Chriton: He barelly understood their technology, but he built his own prowler, and was an acomplished scientist, and was able to add elements of their technology to it to improve it, over time. No one else on Moya's crew could do something like that! A Doctor's skills are still relevant.. Sure he can't operate a medical tricorder, a laser scalpel etc.. but put such a person in a triage situation, and he could still treat burns, stop bleeding, put a splint on or turniquet on.. Sure it's not as good as 24th century stuff, but it's better than letting the person die!

The danger is he devolves into Fry, from Futurama.. a lazy bum who has nothing to do, expept play in the holodeck :D

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Originally Posted by Ergi

I'm sure somebody else will gladly answer your question, but I am curious. What kind of series do you run, allowing you to integrate a character with such a background?

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I'll be a player in the game, not the Narrator, so I really don't know too much. Pretty much all I know is that it's set just after the Dominion War and we'll be the crew of a Runabout, based... somewhere.

But I trust the Narrator, he's usually able to pull off weird stuff like this. I have faith. :)

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Originally Posted by Jem'hadar

How about a -3 penalty on all actions involving use of Star Trek technology or knowledge-related checks concerning the Star Trek universe?

Or about increasing the TN by +5 for all Star Trek technology or Star Trek knowledge related checks by this character?

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Those both seem like they would work. Which works best in Coda, lowering the skill or raising the difficulty of the task?

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Originally Posted by Jem'hadar

I think playing such a character would be a huge disadvantage for any campaign set in the Star Trek universe. That character would have a difficult time on many skill checks. I personally can't imagine any benefit to playing such a character unless maybe its a campaign set in the 20th century & this PC is helping PCs from the future who are here on earth today.

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That's something I've thought about as well. But the neat thing about this setup is that, if it doesn't work, the PC won't have to be killed off, we'll simply have an episode where we take him back to his own time!

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Originally Posted by Jem'hadar

Anothing thing is the Federation Timefleet from the 29th century might have a problem if that 20th century person is not supposed to be in the future & the timeline has been upset by his/her existence.

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Well, the Timefleet is merely a plot device and given how much time-traveling's been done where the Timefleet HASN'T shown up, I don't think they get involved in EVERY bit of time-travel that's done.

That said, I'm fairly certain our PCs will get a visit by the DTI.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

If the man is a specialist in his field, depending on how what that field is, he may still be relevant, in certain circumstances.. For example John Chriton: He barelly understood their technology, but he built his own prowler, and was an acomplished scientist, and was able to add elements of their technology to it to improve it, over time. No one else on Moya's crew could do something like that! A Doctor's skills are still relevant.. Sure he can't operate a medical tricorder, a laser scalpel etc.. but put such a person in a triage situation, and he could still treat burns, stop bleeding, put a splint on or turniquet on.. Sure it's not as good as 24th century stuff, but it's better than letting the person die!

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Again, I don't know the whole story, but it seems like he'll be playing an astronaut, with a background in the USAF, who fell through some spatial anomaly and ended up in the 24th Century.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

The danger is he devolves into Fry, from Futurama.. a lazy bum who has nothing to do, expept play in the holodeck :D

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That's a danger, certainly, but the player who'll be playing him isn't one to sit on the sidelines, so it'll likely be more along the lines of us (the others) pulling him out of the fire.

I agree on the penalty to skills involving futuristic technology, I can even imagine a penalty to some social skills, after all, the 20th century guy is used to a totally different culture.
However, the real question is, how long does it take for this disadvantage to disappear? Star Trek equipment should represent the epitome of user friendliness, so it should be relatively easy to figure it out. Janeway found out how to operate Windows within seconds, it cannot be more complicated the other way round.
I'm not saying that the disadvantage should simply vanish after some weeks or months, but that, after this time span, the player should be allowed to buy off the disadvantage, to represent his increased familiarity and training with state of the art technology.

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Originally Posted by Ergi

I agree on the penalty to skills involving futuristic technology, I can even imagine a penalty to some social skills, after all, the 20th century guy is used to a totally different culture.
However, the real question is, how long does it take for this disadvantage to disappear? Star Trek equipment should represent the epitome of user friendliness, so it should be relatively easy to figure it out. Janeway found out how to operate Windows within seconds, it cannot be more complicated the other way round.
I'm not saying that the disadvantage should simply vanish after some weeks or months, but that, after this time span, the player should be allowed to buy off the disadvantage, to represent his increased familiarity and training with state of the art technology.

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I think the PC is going to need some actual training in order to lose this Flaw; simply USING 24th Century tech probably won't cut it.

Hmm sounds like a cross between Farscape and Buck Rogers :D

The fact he is a skilled pilot will give him skill affinities for piloting, and he will have some science abilities (astronauts are usually highly competent scientists), and of course military training. There is a 'Pilot' Skill in the SOM, and tha covers cross skill afinities, and gives you an actual skill to work with!

I agree with you Ergi, but it will depend on what he is doing. Janeway worked out how to use Windows in minutes... because she had a Tricorder doing half the work for her!

I guess the simplest rule could be.. when he gets his first point of 'System Operations' Then he has training.. and it should cost him 2 points, as he hasn't got it as a career skill! Perhaps that could be combined with a 'anachronistic' flaw, which gives him a -5 penalty, and he can buy it off with XP - and the GM's permission of course. There's also the fact he will be completelly lacking in knowledges a schoolchild would have, and those would take a lot to buy up! He might be able to work a replicator, but he won't know what a 'Vulcan' or a 'Plomeek' is! He might understand how to set spacial coordinates, but he won't undersyand warp physics, but yes, in a pinch, he can just go "Computer lay in a course for Alpha Iradni eight, and engage at warp factor eight" :) It's when there are complications that there's an issue: Sure he might be able to work out the controlls for the transporter.. but what if it's flashing a little red light at him saying "particle flux synthesis", is it bad, is it good, what does it mean? That's where the skill comes in. The machines by far surpass ours for user friendlyness, because they are so arcanelly complicated, that to be any other way would be impossible to operate!

There should definatelly be a social disadvantage too. Everytime he sees a klingon for the first time, or a Vulcan, his eyes will pop out of his head.. Sure Klingons are rare in Starfleet, but a Bolian, a Batazoid with those wierd black irises. I'd probably say he'd get a -2 penalty on socially interacting with anyone wierd, from a 20th century viewpoint.. That said, thinking to something Arthur C Clarke said, we live in an age now, where the shock of the new is not going to be as hard on us, as it was in the past. he's watched TV, he's seen 'special effects' and prosthetics.. his reaction is as likelly to be 'cool special effects' as 'oh dear god hideous monster get away from me'. It won't take him long to work out the wierd looking... thing, in the same uniform as everyone else.. is part of the crew..

Another problem he's going to have is that the 'Soldier' career doesn't really fit, so your GM is going to have to build a career. I'd check to see if GoB's BSR (basic reference document, a genre free version of Coda) has a pilot in there as a template.

Another important thing to consider is the crew's reaction to him. When they first encounter him they will be operating under temporal prime directive protocols.. they will try and minimise his exposure to anything, untill they determine he is here for good. How he gets there is important.. For example, there was a TNG episode where they discover 3 frozen humans in cryostasis.. obviously they won't be goiong back.. they are officially long dead, there are no time anomolies.. If he came through a wierd swirly vortex thingy, the crew may work for an 'epsiode' trying to put things back the way they were. Weather the temporal police turn up depends entirelly on what is going on.. usually they turn up because someone from THEIR era is doing something, or someone from between their era and the 24th century is meddling.. they usually leave events from the past to their own version of the temporal secirity, so yes, he will be paid a visit, but from the contemporary time police, not the 29th century one's! :D

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Originally Posted by Tobian

The fact he is a skilled pilot will give him skill affinities for piloting, and he will have some science abilities (astronauts are usually highly competent scientists), and of course military training.

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Yes, and I think that's what the Narrator is going for.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

There should definatelly be a social disadvantage too. Everytime he sees a klingon for the first time, or a Vulcan, his eyes will pop out of his head..

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Yes... and I'm playing a Vulcan engineer! :p It'll be fun!

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Another problem he's going to have is that the 'Soldier' career doesn't really fit, so your GM is going to have to build a career. I'd check to see if GoB's BSR (basic reference document, a genre free version of Coda) has a pilot in there as a template.

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Where can I find the BSR? I did a Google-search but found nothing.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

so yes, he will be paid a visit, but from the contemporary time police, not the 29th century one's! :D

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Agreed, the Deparment of Temporal Investigation (the ones from [DS9:Trials and Tribble-ations]) will take an interest, the Timefleet won't (barring special circumstances).

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Originally Posted by Gaunt_Man

Where can I find the BSR? I did a Google-search but found nothing.

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http://home.mchsi.com/~gandalfofborg/

Had to check myself.. it's on his homepage.. http://home.mchsi.com/~gandalfofborg/

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Had to check myself.. it's on his homepage.. http://home.mchsi.com/~gandalfofborg/

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Heh, I've been away too long. :) Lost the lingo: GoB = GandalfofBorg. Of course!

Thanks! I'll have a look through it. It's freakin' huge!

(BTW, until the game actually starts, I'm pretty much co-GM. That's why I'm helping the Narrator with this, in case anyone was wondering).

/The Gaunt Man

Wel if you've been away... have you got a copy of the ESO -> http://rpg.lionelkw.com/trek/eso.htm :)

and whoops, doubling up - damn you Ergi, you beat me! :D

Pilots of shuttles at NASA are typically military personnel transferred there while the scientists are civilian specialists. The pilots would, yes, have at least a passable to decent knowledge of the sciences, and even a PhD (but not necessarily in a scientific field), but a military background as well so Soldier Profession isn't out of the question, but account for some science (space and physical) skills as well. Pilots, at least in the Air Force, aren't all science or engineering buffs -- there's a wide range of educational backgrounds from ancient history to aeronautical engineeering. To be a pilot of the space shuttle, these skills would apply
Science: Physical (Physics, Mathematics)
Science: Space (Astronomy) [Astrophysics is optional]
Operate Vehicle: Jet Aircraft
Operate Vehicle: Space Shuttle
Engineering: Systems (within realm of Space Shuttle or jet aircraft)
Repair

All astronauts will have Suit Training and Zero-G Training.

For a military pilot, take the Helmsman package from Command and put it in Soldier or just modify Starfleet info to be US military equivalents.

For a NASA specialist, take either an Engineering specialist package and put it in Scientist profession or solely Scientist profession depending on the nature of their specialty.

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Originally Posted by Tobian

Wel if you've been away... have you got a copy of the ESO -> http://rpg.lionelkw.com/trek/eso.htm :)

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Since a couple of hours ago, yes. :cool:

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Originally Posted by GandalfOfBorg

To be a pilot of the space shuttle, these skills would apply
Science: Physical (Physics, Mathematics)
Science: Space (Astronomy) [Astrophysics is optional]
Operate Vehicle: Jet Aircraft
Operate Vehicle: Space Shuttle
Engineering: Systems (within realm of Space Shuttle or jet aircraft)
Repair

All astronauts will have Suit Training and Zero-G Training.

For a military pilot, take the Helmsman package from Command and put it in Soldier or just modify Starfleet info to be US military equivalents.

For a NASA specialist, take either an Engineering specialist package and put it in Scientist profession or solely Scientist profession depending on the nature of their specialty.

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That all looks good. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Gaunt_Man

I think the PC is going to need some actual training in order to lose this Flaw; simply USING 24th Century tech probably won't cut it.

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And until he does, there's always the chance for someone to get onto him and say, "Listen up, you primitive screw-head!" and actually have it be in context.... :D

I stumbled on this thread and it really interested me; I LOVE playing the 'fish out of water' type character (On the Anasazi thread, I'm the Regulan fellow). I love playing the only non-human, the alternate reality duplicate of some hero, or the adventurer from some unknown land/world. So the idea of playing a 20th/21st centruy character really interested me.

I understand that he's not your character and you don't know what the Narrator has in store for him, but there are lots of interesting elements that could be thrown in; maybe he was meant to go into the 24th Century; maybe it wasn't chance that he was sent through the anomaly, perhaps there was an alien power at work, which could bring more Farscape -esqe elements into play.

I think that many of the people meeting the 'primative' would have reactions similar to the NG episode where they meet the Cryosatelite: a mix of curiosity (everyone asked them about their world) and embarassment (Picard and company seemed kinda snooty to the frozen people).

Also, remember that Trek's history isn't OUR timeline: Where we had Operation Desert Storm, they had the Eugenics war. I think that in the early 2000's they had the sanctuary districts going up or in operation (see DS9 for more).

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Originally Posted by Tricky

Also, remember that Trek's history isn't OUR timeline: Where we had Operation Desert Storm, they had the Eugenics war. I think that in the early 2000's they had the sanctuary districts going up or in operation (see DS9 for more).

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The Narrator told me he'll be from the late 60s/early 70s or something, after I pointed this out. (he already knew about the Eugenics Wars being in the early 90s).

Wow, from that early, eh? He is REALLY going to be at a disadvantage then; even though we're primatives compared to Trek-tech, a background in 60's-70's technology would be even worse! This character is going to have some hurdles to jump, that's for sure (and that's what makes good storytelling :) ).

I had another thought about this 20th Century guy; what if he was a 'visionary', his generations equivelant to DaVinci or Edison: Think about Leonardo for a second; he is one of the few people from his era who might not freak out seeing some of our advances. He imagined helicopters, tanks, I think planes/gliders (not sure if that was some movie i saw), and lots of other things. A creative genius might not be overwhelmed by the changes in technology as much as a regular person.

Just another 2 cents!