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Trek 11 Not Dead?
Screenwriter Erik Jendresen told SyFyPortal that his proposed Star Trek: The Beginning, the 11th film in the franchise, is not dead, though Paramount has made no decisions about moving forward with the franchise.
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index...ory=0&id=35461
The proposed script is for it to be the first part of a trilogy dealing w/ the Earth-Romulan War. But since it will involve all new characters & actors, I wonder if it will have enough mass appeal to do well.
this could be very well done if done right...
okay, I'm hopeful. So sue me
Get a lawyer :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BouncyCaitian
I agree, if done right it might bring Trek back into the main.
operational title is bloody awful. "Earth-Romulus War" seems more evocative
How will this be made to expand the base of the genra? The key test is that it makes the die-hards happy . . . but also attracts the general public . . . otherwise the profits will be dissappointing . . . and the genra will be killed by the Execs in suits.
To say the least, I am cautious.
I don't want to have a prequel. I'll bet good money that it will not draw the masses back into cinema for a Star Trek movie. I'm not even convinced it'll draw most of the Trekfans still out there in the theaters. And why can't they name a captain character really new. Tiberius, doesn't that ring a bell with you, Jim? ;)
Look, Enterprise was a prequel and that in the end did not really fly well with the audience didn't it? There are Enterprise fans, I am not bashing saying this, but in the past I have been accused of this:
The show failed. Period. It was a bad show in the Franchise. It never got the ratings it needed or sponsership.
So, why then do they think a prequel with a new crew will be liked after so many people now venomiously hate Enterprise? Right now, more fans hate Enterprise, than they have fans now. I have seen Enterprise fans turn to haters.
Myself? I thought it was a mistake the Phantom Menace of Star Trek shows.
With all the turmoil we are going through in the United States over 9/11 to the Iraq War is an ideal time to do a POST Dominion War Saga.
Prequels are dangerous people complained about what George Lucas did in the Prequels and he created the Star Wars Movies!!!
Now we have Berman & Braga talking Prequel Movie?! Yes, Revenge of the Sith rocked, but that was the Star Wars movie in the Prequels we all waited for. We are not waiting for another Prequel Trek Movie, we want to go on with the Saga the future of the Federation; the future of the Alliance; the danger of the Breen; etc.
Berman & Braga obviously need to be replaced. We need someone with a new vision before talks of Star Trek movies and series are made.
I suppose that's the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut
They'll mess this up because it's going to be virtually impossible not to. Enterprise proved that Trek prequels are hard to do because every fan has their own personal 'fanon'.
Just do another TNG film and actually make sure to cash in on Patrick Stewarts popularity this time. And don't release it when a big film like LotR is showing.
Okay, all I'm reading here is a bunch of fear mongering. A prequel can be done well; if you have a good script, good direction and good actors, it doesn't matter if the film is taking place in 2156 or 2381.
I happen to believe the TNG/DS9 era has played itself out; it's tired, with 21 seasons on TV and four movies behind it.
And while I agree that in the first two seasons Enterprise struggled to stand on its own, it was no different than Seasons 1-2 of TNG, DS9 and Voyager. Seasons 3-4 were much stronger and fan favorites, and the series was heading in the right direction with Manny Coto at the helm. Manny was showing a prequel could work, so don't dismiss a "prequel" out of hand.
Besides, a movie trilogy is more finite and, thusly, can be tighter in its control of canon.
That said, Berman and Braga need to go, regardless of what they do with the franchise next.
Let the franchise rest. Trek needs to go away for three or four or five years. Then work on a new series with all new writing, production and acting talent. We've been bombarded with Trek since DS9-Voyager and there needs to be a period of time to re-energize the franchise and make sure people, other than die-hard fans even give a crap.
LQ
No matter how much time we give the franchise . . . if the same leadership who ran the franchise remain, the odds of them producing a successful series, let alone a multi-million dollar motion picture, are highly against the franchise.
When we look at the franchise . . . the idea of a new series or movie let us not limit us to one or the other, whether it be pre-quil or post-quil. Let us see what is doing well . . . what would bring in the public . . . and the fandom alike. See how X-men did it . . . they brought in die hard Marvel fans . . . and the general public alike. Maybe we can learn something from that.
Was it the mixture of story and actors? Was it the general knowledge that the public had? What about the story was relateable to the general public, but made the fandom gitty with excitement?
We must be able to see where in our genra we can bring in others who may not be die hard fans . . . we must not be lost in our fandom . . . in a way that would make it foggy for those who are not with us to follow us.
All it needs is a good script, good direction, and good actors.
Period.
NO need for it to rest. If it rocks as a film, it does.
How do we know this?
If some other guy or gal writes a great sci fi blockbuster script, people will go see it.
Just because it is a Trek film does not change that fact.
"Sixth Sense" was a great script, great movie. People loved it.
Same writer; "Signs" totally sucked. "The Village" Sucked.
Because both scripts were horrible.
It is all about the script, before anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Tyger
:confused: A PREQUEL CAN BE DONE RIGHT!!! :confused:
Sorry, Enterprise showed they can not do it with Trek. Heck even Star Wars had issues and the prequels were done by the ORIGINAL CREATOR!!!
Sorry, I am sure you are an Enterprise fan of some sort saying that, but there is no need for any prequel, another series or dear God this horrible idea for a movie.
It is a stupid idea! The fans are in the majority desenfranchized and the idea of a prequel like that another series or even this movie just shows how Paramount/Viacom are full of a bunch of baboons and do not understand their fan base.
Just because it finally worked for Star Wars does not mean it will work for Star Trek!!! Enterprise proved that point. If they make this sequel it will drop faster than Nemesis.
Before any talk should be about any idea of movie or hiring script writers I do agree what you are saying at the end part:
Get rid of Berman and Braga! Take them out of the Trek loop get someone that can actually do something with the franchize. Then start looking at the ideas of movies and series. They need to be out of it, they fracked scripts they do not like they obviously have proven they have no idea where to take the franchize.
Another thing is this, why the hell does the next movie have to be a prequel?! What is the point? Just because you can? That is what they did in Enterprise and I shouted out at a convention when they announced it with a bunch of other people it was a bad idea.
There is so much where the Star Trek storyline can go in the future and not in the past. I have never been a big fan of the ideas of the Star Trek movies, I will say, yet I have seen everyone in the theater when it was released, except Star Trek: Motion Picture I was too young. Yet I can watch most of them when they are on and own them all, except Nemesis.
Right now, Paramount/Viacom need to bring back the fans, a prequel is not it, getting rid of B&B and bringing in someone good to hold the reigns that is what needs to be done.
And Paramount/Viacom at every Trek convention across the country for a year after the firing of B&B burn an effigy of them at each convention! :D
Nene, Shatner is also writing a Prequel Academy script.
If anyone out in Hollywood has the power and pull, and just basic drive to pull it off, he does. The whole thing revolved around him, ask anyone.
For those of us who want a prequel, the Borg, Voyager, and Enterprise are the basis for What, exactly, in the far future?
Bring back the days of Romulans, and Klingons, and the drama inherent in epic galactic conflict.
:o And I care how that Shatner is writing another Trek Script? At least Final Frontier was not as bad as the others, but regardless it is a BAD IDEA.
Bring back the Drama with the Romulans & Klingons... wow rebuilding the Alpha Quadrant after the Dominion War comes to mind. *scratches head* Hmmm, could that bring old enemies back? Hmmmm...
And they tried that bringing back Romulans and Klingons in that regard it is called the failure Enterprise.
It will not work period.
Trek needs a new direction and the PAST is never the answer. If you think that fine, but I have said for years on this board that prequels don't work and when it is proven right people still want it? Sad, Sad, Sad.
You, LugTrekGM, can hold onto your dream that prequels are good as do all the others that believe that and that is your right. I am not going to dispute that. You have that right, even though I think it is wrong.
I think we have seen it does not work period that Trek is not about this about their past. It is a commentary of where we are and where we are going that is what TOS was about that is what they also did in TNG and what they later did in DS9, when it got better. This is what failed in Voyager and Enterprise.
You want the drama of the old series, but look at how the writing and focus of Trek has fallen away side to gimmick make up, special effects and sexual induandos. Look at the writing talent of TOS; TNG; and DS9, how many of them have moved on to bigger and better things. Then look at Voyager & Enterprise no one really popping out of those shows and never will since the majority of those scripts were written by the two we all agree need to take a hike.
The core issue is not if you think prequel is a good idea and I do not. The core issue is Trek has lost it's way. This is a gimmick movie idea, which we will see Romulans face to face to Crew of this new ship violating again another TOS episode. :( You can argue it will not happen but it will like Superheroes in movies revealing who they are to everyone.
This prequel movie idea is obviously a B&B brainchild, this is like them to do it. Their hands are not out of they pie yet and that needs to be done period before any talk of movies and/or series is discussed. B&B gone and new talent in place, hopefully someone that knows what the hell they are doing.
Have you ever watched an episode of Enterprise, Nene?
It's not proven that prequels don't work for Trek. Most people attribute Enterprise's failure to Berman and Braga, and not the era. B&B purposely attempted to distance it from the franchise by leaving Star Trek out of the title for the first two seasons, immediately alienating many fans. B&B also didn't go back to Trek's roots, instead using their tired TNG formula, which hasn't had an original idea since season 7 of TNG.
The problem was further compounded by Enterprise screening on UPN, which wasn't in every market. I didn't get to see the show until Sunday nights, and that was often bumped about because of the World Series or some other major sports event. Schedule uncertainty like that kills viewership like nothing else (ask Joss Whedon).
The fourth season (with the conspicuous exception of Berman's abomination of a series finale) is widely considered the best and most popular of the series, and that was headed by Manny Coto, with little (if any) input from B&B. Had Paramount decided to continue forward, we would have likely seen Enterprise flourish like TNG and DS9 did in their last 3-4 seasons.
Just because you don't think a Trek prequel can be done doesn't make it so.
Yep. Did all 4 seasons. So nice try. Try again, don't say that I dislike something I never saw it that is just a bad argument. I watched all of Voyager too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Tyger
Saw no difference in the 4th Season except hearing Manny Coto this and Manny Coto that people said. Was not impressed. His influance meant nothing, but alot of Enterprise people say look at what he did hardly any B&B input. *shakes head* Sorry, but if Manny Coto the so-called savior of Enterprise did not get it to work, means another reason for bad concept.
I watched them both because I am a Trek fan, but I honestly thought the show was terrible. Why did I watch for support hopefully for something better, not going to happen it seems even with the bad ratings. Prequels don't work and that is MY opinion and to myself it was proven right more than once as well as many of the people that do agree with me.
You like your Enterprise, Sea Tyger, as I said in my previous post:
Same goes to you. You can think what you want and I will think mine.Quote:
You, LugTrekGM, can hold onto your dream that prequels are good as do all the others that believe that and that is your right. I am not going to dispute that. You have that right, even though I think it is wrong.
Just where is Manny Coto now?
Not with Trek as B&B blamed him for the last season's cancellation, he became the hornless goat (human sacrifice) B&B used to blame the failure of the series on, adding the Fans like us, to their overlords at Paramount/Viacom, who are just ignorant on their best franchise period that believe everything that B&B tell them. Manny Coto is not even involved in the new Movie idea the last I read.
So let's just let us be bygones, but I hope this idea fails before it even goes into production.
Well, to my analytic eye, your arguments are flawed about why Enterprise was cancelled; you're convinced that just because I like Enterprise, I cannot be objective, and you accept no other explanation for the cancellation of the series. But, since I can't convince you of your errors, we'll agree to disagree.
Anyway, it looks like you're in the distinct minority of people who've responded to the Trek 11 poll on Sci-Fi Wire. I know it's far from scientific (about as scientific as a poll on this board ;)), but it seems only 15% of respondents don't want the movie to go forward. Nearly four times as many respondents are all for it, and an overwhelming majority (85%) are at least willing to give the concept a chance.
Sea Tyger, I can very easily do that, but as I said before. You have the right to yours and I mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Tyger
As for the poll, how many times can you cast a vote on it on Sci Fi? I can cast as many times as I want.
This is a discussion about Star Trek 11 and not about your love of Enterprise that would be another thread completely. So let it just be bygones and bygones as I said before, Sea Tyger instead of trying to derail this thread from it's purpose?
Okay so by that logic, films about World War II were dead, because it had been told and told. Then Saving Private Ryan was made.
The Western was dead, then Unforgiven was made.
Nobody can predict when the next good thing will come.
It's all about the team making it. It is all about the script, and execution.
Star Trek itself was dead, to everyone, for the longest time, then the Next Generation was made and ran, what, 6 or 7 years?
I have no love for Rick Berman, nor his associate, who shall not be named, lest he be summoned to appear.
But unless you yourself have some kind of secret insider information about what 2007 brings, how can you categorically state what will or will not happen about the future?
Is it not true that the spirit of Star Trek is all about "where we are going" and bright new future?
I myself am open to the idea that good things can happen. Sequel, prequel, side series, whatever. Nobody knows.
In the history of Trek, there was an Earth-Romulan war, and it was not fought by Picard, Janeway, or Kirk and Crew. Someone fought it, and it can be written, shot, and edited. It's not your money, so why the vehemence?
How is responding to your charge of "prequels don't work" derailing the thread from its purpose? How is using the only Trek prequel in existence as an example (by both you and me) counter to the purpose of the thread?
You made a charge; I countered it. You defended your charge, and I rebutted. How is that derailing the thread?
Our views on Enterprise and its value as a prequel strike at the heart of the Romulan War movie trilogy concept.
I am not the one dismissing the concept of Trek 11 simply because it is a prequel. A well-written screenplay that is entertaining to watch and fills in the gaps of Trek history -- especially such a pivotal point in Trek history -- should be something Trek fans want. Why wouldn't you want to see a good set of movies like that? Give me something more than "prequels don't work."
Sea Tyger Wrote:
This was exactly my experience.Quote:
The fourth season (with the conspicuous exception of Berman's abomination of a series finale) is widely considered the best and most popular of the series, and that was headed by Manny Coto, with little (if any) input from B&B. Had Paramount decided to continue forward, we would have likely seen Enterprise flourish like TNG and DS9 did in their last 3-4 seasons.
From my contacts at American Zoetrope, (I'm an as yet unproduced screenwriter) I saw the casting sheet for Enterprise in Mar-April 2001, before Paramount had any episodes "In the Can."
A few weeks later, I saw the crew that had been hired. I thought, "Wow, I loved Quantum Leap, this might be really good, a whole new flavor."
I contacted Berman in Summer of 2001, and he wasn't interested in any of my ideas, responded that he already had the first season written, and they were too busy shooting to worry about that far ahead in the future.
In the end, I really didn't like the way Enterprise was handled, but just as it was getting good, it was killed off.
If I speculate as to the politics involved, it might be the case that the palace revolt was put down early, before the young prince succeeded to the throne, but I have not really followed that aspect of it too closely, as I have been involved in other things.
Now, some fans of the old days know one of the strengths of TOS was that Roddenberry was willing to work with outside talent. Some of the better episodes were written by noted science fiction writers.
I have heard that Braga has publicly stated, "The fans no longer know what they want." Actually, I am pretty sure they do know what they want, and it is not his attitude, generally.
I have hopes that this guy Erik Jendresen, gets a greenlight, and not lost in development. I really enjoyed Band of Brothers. Maybe they can get some of the team that wrote Wrath of Khan to do a polish.
The initial post said "The project is not dead," picketing by Nene notwithstanding.
Some films take years to get made, for various reasons.
It took as I recall 7 years for "The Long Kiss Goodnight" to get made, but it's one of my favorite movies.
So, if they can get a good script, and a good director, this "beginning" might actually be the best Trek Film ever made, surpassing even "Wrath of Khan."
Ok, I will probably get pilloried for this, but here it is:
Nene is right.
This is a bad idea, for all the reasons she laid out, and also for another one, a big one.
This proposed movie is set during the Earth Romulan War.
The captain of the new ship has a name that deliberately evokes nostalgia for a character from years ago.
Do you suppose that the special effects people will try for shots of the starships that look like they were filmed out in space by a hand held camera?
Maybe a subplot that will involve the starship leading a ragtag civilian fleet to safety?
Maybe one of the civilian ships will be a freighter captained by a cynical war veteran?
Nothing I have read in the blurbs indicates anything whatsoever original. Rather, it smacks of a bunch of jealous Paramount suits mining the projects of other, more talented writers and producers for ideas to keep their own failing child on life support.
Cynical? You bet. I sat through YEARS of the abomination known as Voyager out of loyalty.
I let myself believe that Enterprise held some promise. And it did, right until midway through the first season when we saw Trip get pregnant, and F*ing FERENGI!!!
Yes Season 4 of Enterpise showed that they were finally . . . FINALLY . . . interested in making something worthwhile, but by then it was too late to make any difference. Enterpise had been banished to Friday, running opposite Sci fi Channel's Stargate and Battlestar Galactica, the most original sci fi show in years.
So no big surprise that Paramount is scheming to rip off Ronald Moore's idea, slap a Star Trek label on it, and call it their own now.
I'd like to be hopeful, I truly would. But after watching B&B rape Enterprise in the series finale, I . . . just . . . can't
I think the Romulan War "IF" done right would do well at the box office. As for enterprise all I will say is that I wasn't impressed with season 4 as much as some folks. For me it's always been a tie between it and Voayeager as to which is my least favorite of the ST franchises.
See I am not the only one, who thinks it is a bad idea.
I am not going to continue the argument not that I can not make points, but in the past on this board, when this starts getting heated it does not go well for the opposition and I get blamed for sticking to my opinion and not backing down. I think I still have the e-mail the reason why I stopped coming here for over a year. If some of you have not figured out who I use to be on the boards here already.
So I am taking a new approach, you can have your opinion and I can have my opinion, regardless we are all Star Trek fans even if we do not always agree and say eye-to-eye. Who says that we do? The show is 40 years old with 4 spin offs, but not all of us have to like the same things.
I stated my reasons and others agree with me others don't. It does not really matter does it? Fun to have a discussion and a bit of an arguement, but sometimes on forums we all get too passionate on both sides.
I don't want to derail a thread turning it into a war call me nuts, we should just have a nice little discussion, but I back down now if I think it will get too heated.
Let's agree to disagree and move on.
Who's getting heated?
I'm just looking at it from the view of a screenwriter, and sci fi writer, who happens to be posting here, because I am also a Star Trek:RPG referee.
Stories, good stories, last, and new stories change hollywood's perception, from time to time.
Now sure, if the same team is setting out to break their own mold in the inner sanctum of Paramount, I won't bet money on the outcome.
But if they can get some new faces in, with a GOOD story that doesn't involve "Oh, this was all an alternate timeline / really just a dream." It will work.
As a side note, I recall that Battlestar Galactica was on TV in the mid 70's. So, I'm not sure if the poster meant "Original Show" or "Much improved retread, with hotter actresses, 30 some years later"
It doesn't have to have the old TOS sets to be a good prequel. I'm not THAT much of a purist, to even guess at how the majority of fans of the old, original series would respond. It does have a certain nostalgic feel, though.
But as long as they take themselves seriously, and convey the original dream, it could work.
If DS9 came before, and Next Generation came after, instead of the way they did it, would people have watched it? Yes, I think so. Others can debate me, sure, that's what these threads allow.
But that would be a prequel that works.
All thoughts of the past work aside, if the show has the right things going for it, it will be a good show.
Prejudging any potential show, what, years before it is made is what, Prejudice? Against Star Trek's future?
If people want it to die, how come they are posting here, at Trrek-rpg.net?
Because true, something dying might not be saved. But sometimes it can.
I suggest that nobody can be sure, until the thing is shot, with a crew of actors.
If it gets made, and flops, call me wrong then, not months and months way ahead of time.
Who does it HURT to take a positive attitude about this, really?
I'm one of those people who doesn't believe the new galactica should have been ever called Battlestar Galactica.